Everyone is against production-made cues?

My 2 cents

Well, a custom cue is a cue not made to cookie cutter specs, but customized for a customer to his/her specs. As you have said - CUSTOM might have more meaning to it than it actually defines, and there is the quagmire - GIGGITY_GIGGITY_GIGGITY!!!!

I believe it would mean more than a weight change to make a cue "custom". Shaft dimension, balance point, shaft weight, etc. Also, if schon/Evan Clarke does custom specs for a customer, than I would consider it a custom cue. I believe the problem/issue lies not in the cue on its own, but how we define the shop in the end. Schon is a semi-production shop, while Scruggs is a full custom shop. How many production cues to cookie cutter setups are made in Tim's shop compared to Schon/Evan's shop - AND HOW MANY OF THE SAME DESIGN? The difference a lot of times when people are discussing custom cue versus production cue lies in the portrayal of the cuemaker's SHOP as a whole versus the specific cue. Does Tim make any cues that are made to his normal specs - versus a specific customer in mind? Does that make his cue a production cue? In your thinking it seems that it would. But I believe the emphasis of the shop and its production design has much to do with how we LABEL a cue CUSTOM vs. PRODUCTION.

JMHO

Michael
 
snowmon34 said:
Ok I guess my cues are capable of change...They can go from a custom cue ( from the original person that ordered it to his or her specs..)....to a regular cue ( now that i own it )...I'm not sure if the cue becomes custom again if I trade it back to the original person that ordered it ( hopefully Shawn will chime in and set me straight on this )..

Now that we are in agreeance that a custom cue can change into just a cue ( I think )....I wonder if my caterpillar cue can change into a butterfly cue?.:D J/K Shawn you don't have to answer the last question..
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Your answer tells me you're into "custom cues" for the snob appeal. So, keep calling ALL of your cues custom. In fact, they even have custom tips, custom wraps, custom joints, and custom ferrules, because that's how the gentleman ordered it, without so much as a thought of who would buy it.

Like I've asked, according to your criteria, what cue ISN'T a custom? Using your rationale, any cue I've purchased is custom. I buy cues with 13mm tips, which is my preference, and 20.75oz, because that's my preferred weight. Therefore, I own a Joss Custom, a Viking Custom, a Dufferin Custom and a McDermott Custom.
 
GoTulane said:
Well, a custom cue is a cue not made to cookie cutter specs, but customized for a customer to his/her specs. As you have said - CUSTOM might have more meaning to it than it actually defines, and there is the quagmire - GIGGITY_GIGGITY_GIGGITY!!!!

I believe it would mean more than a weight change to make a cue "custom". Shaft dimension, balance point, shaft weight, etc. Also, if schon/Evan Clarke does custom specs for a customer, than I would consider it a custom cue. I believe the problem/issue lies not in the cue on its own, but how we define the shop in the end. Schon is a semi-production shop, while Scruggs is a full custom shop. How many production cues to cookie cutter setups are made in Tim's shop compared to Schon/Evan's shop - AND HOW MANY OF THE SAME DESIGN? The difference a lot of times when people are discussing custom cue versus production cue lies in the portrayal of the cuemaker's SHOP as a whole versus the specific cue. Does Tim make any cues that are made to his normal specs - versus a specific customer in mind? Does that make his cue a production cue? In your thinking it seems that it would. But I believe the emphasis of the shop and its production design has much to do with how we LABEL a cue CUSTOM vs. PRODUCTION.

JMHO

Michael
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Great response! Here's the issue I have with the "custom" title. Most custom cues do start out as custom cues - made for an individual, and their specific needs or wants. Then, that customer moves onto the next big thing, and sells the cue the cuemaker made for him. Someone else buys it, but doesn't like the weight, so they drop in or take out a weight screw and it's ready for them. Certain cuemakers have certain designs. Good luck getting Southwest to make you a 4 pointer - it's not their style of cue. Certain makers have a certain style, and that's why buyers buy their cues. The EXACT same thing could be said for a group like Schon or Joss. The main question comes down to volume of production. There seems to be a magical line in the sand as to when you transform from a "custom" house to a "production" house. The custom makers have CNC machines for tapers and inlays, the same as the volume makers. There is virtually no difference in the technology used between the volume makers and the custom cuemaker. There are no magic trees that only custom cuemakers have access to.

When you buy any cue off the rack, it was not made for you. I'm sick of the "custom" label, as most people treat it like a badge of honor, or some seal of approval.
 
If I Order A Cue From A Cuemaker To My Specs, I Can Call That "custom", Correct???

I Also Feel Differently About How The Word Custom Is Used. If The Cue Was Built One At A Time To "custom" Specs, Even If They Aren't Mine, It's Still "custom" If It Was Built In A Shop, Or Assembly Line, To Generic Specs, It's Not Custom

P.s. You Can Have A "custom" Production Shop Cue, I've Ordered Several Over The Years, For Myself And Customers.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Your answer tells me you're into "custom cues" for the snob appeal. So, keep calling ALL of your cues custom. In fact, they even have custom tips, custom wraps, custom joints, and custom ferrules, because that's how the gentleman ordered it, without so much as a thought of who would buy it.

Like I've asked, according to your criteria, what cue ISN'T a custom? Using your rationale, any cue I've purchased is custom. I buy cues with 13mm tips, which is my preference, and 20.75oz, because that's my preferred weight. Therefore, I own a Joss Custom, a Viking Custom, a Dufferin Custom and a McDermott Custom.
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Now thats not a fair comment Shawn.....:crying:...If you had any idea what I own you would know that I'm not a into wall hangers...my cues are considered players.....I'll also have you know that I play with my custom Meucci ( I took the weight bolt out and customised it to my specs :rotflmao1: ) once in a while, it's a fun change, but you have me confused.... when a cue starts out as a custom cue ( made to the original owners specs ).... your claiming the cue no longer can be called a custom cue because it has a new owner.....The cue started its life as custom cue....it doesn't morph into just a cue because of ownership.....thats silly
 
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snowmon34 said:
Now thats not a fair comment Shawn.....:crying:...If you had any idea what I own you would know that I'm not a into wall hangers...my cues are considered players.....I'll also have you know that I play with my custom Meucci ( I took the weight bolt out and customised it to my specs :rotflmao1: ) once in a while, it's a fun change, but you have me confused.... when a cue starts out as a custom cue ( made to the original owners specs ).... your claiming the cue no longer can be called a custom cue because it has a new owner.....The cue started its life as custom cue....it doesn't morph into just a cue because of ownership.....thats silly
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Could you please answer my question? What doesn't make a Schon or Joss a custom cue, then? Why isn't a Meucci a custom cue? Hell, according to your definition, a house cue is custom.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
If I Order A Cue From A Cuemaker To My Specs, I Can Call That "custom", Correct???

I Also Feel Differently About How The Word Custom Is Used. If The Cue Was Built One At A Time To "custom" Specs, Even If They Aren't Mine, It's Still "custom" If It Was Built In A Shop, Or Assembly Line, To Generic Specs, It's Not Custom

P.s. You Can Have A "custom" Production Shop Cue, I've Ordered Several Over The Years, For Myself And Customers.
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So, if a cue is built to Kevin Varney's specs, it's custom, but if Evan Clarke makes one to his standards, it's production? OK, I get it now......

So, if you build more than 1 of a particular design, then it's no longer custom? OK, someone call Laurie at Southwest. Her cues aren't custom anymore. Richard Black isn't allowed to make any more veneered 4 pointers anymore either - that's considered "production".

Too many conditions....I can't take it anymore. Let's just replace "custom" with "super dee duper extra terrific". That's what everyone is thinking when they say "custom".
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Could you please answer my question? What doesn't make a Schon or Joss a custom cue, then? Why isn't a Meucci a custom cue? Hell, according to your definition, a house cue is custom.
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Shawn I never said Schon, Joss, or Meucci are not customs cues....I've only addressed your statement that once a custom cue is sold on the secondary it's no longer considered a custom cue...Thats just silly imo



BTW....No need to reply...I think it would be best to carry this conversation over to the main forum.....it's not fair to keep bumping this thread when others are trying to buy, and sell product...jmo
 
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Curious

Don't post much here, I'm more like a sideline sweat-er...but...I've read every post on this thread, fantastic banter. Just curious, remember the old comercials for "blind taste tests"? Could a cued shot, blindfolded, determine any amount of qualitive determination when it comes to the destinction between custom/production quality? Just a thought. Balance, resonation, feel...I know obviously that performance wouldn't factor since it's a blind shot but...just a thought.
 
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I feel when a cue is made by a custom cue maker it would always be called a custom cue because it originated from a custom cue maker.

Nowdays many players are quiet particular about the specs before they buy a cue of secondary market.Like someone did not buy my ginacue because the diameter of the butt was not to his liking.So even in secondary market people see the specs match to their liking and than only buy a cue.
As long as a cue orginated from a custom cue maker it will be called a custom cue and all the custom cues are made to different specs.

However cues like predator are now made in assembly lines in china, I dont consider predators bad but it has more to do what suits u. If predator or schon suits u than so be it.However if a custom cue makers cue suits u than buy that.Efren Reyes for very long played with a 10usd cue.So it is purely upto an individual what he might or might not like.

I have played with predator,southwest,bluegrass,sugartree,ginacue and olney.The best i have liked is southwest and than an olney.This is just my personal preference.These cues suit my style of playing and does not mean bg and st and gina are not good.
 
gmcole said:
I think the Quote is the same
"Only accurate cues are interesting"
Do you think Balabuska,Szamboti,Tascarella,Searing,Sruggs,South West etc.got there reputation because they make pretty cues? They flat out play better and more consistant than production cues, especially better than most of the newer production cues. If you want the best of the best shaftwood, the best constucted cue(not the fastest) and one that puts it all together to make the best playing cue posible, by someone that actually knows how a cue is suppose to play...Are you going to buy a top tier custom or a production cue? There are also alot of customs that I am not that fond of, but the top tier customs are all better than any production cue in terms of hit,playability,consistantcy(sp?),etc. BTW, a Schon is made a little different today compared to the early Schons.
sorry for rambling-jeff
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It's interesting when people say things this. Half the pros are shooting with Cuetecs, Falcons, Scorpions, Vikings....and...I don't think I notice any lapse in their pool game whatsoever. I watch the real good players in my area grab house cues off the wall and they shoot wonderful games of pool. I know customs are aesthetically better looking. I'm sure there are indeed some construction/building methods that indeed add to feedback, "hit", and general overall feel. But if it rolls straight, and has a good tip it...a good player will kick your ass with it regardless. LOL

When I first started collecting cues...I didn't have any concept of what a custom cue was. My idea of a custom cue was one of Schon's LTD cues. In fact...at one time I had about a dozen of the nicest model Schon LTD's anyone in here's ever seen. I guarantee it. And even though I don't collect them any more...I wish I still had the majority of them in my collection. They were outstanding players...and damn fine looking cues. Good players too. Since then...I've owned pretty much everything under the sun...from Blackboars and Blackcreeks...to Carolinas and Cogs. But it all started with Schons.
 
I've played with both production and custom cues over the past 10 years or so, and although alot of production cues are pretty damn good, I still prefer the custom cues, as they generally do have a little higher quality performance, and also because the cue can be custom designed to your requirements, whereas production cues don't give this oppertunity, with the exception of Joss cuess because I know that they have production cues that the inlay design from the forearms and butt sleeves can be mixed and matched to the individuals tastes, e.g. you could have a plain jane ebony forearm with the butt sleeve having the MOP Diamonds out lined in holy, like that on the original J-18 that was used in TCOM :)

I will say though that the custom option isn't accessible to everyone's bankroll, especially nowadays and so, for those who don't have a healthy wallet, are having to settle for the best production cue that they can buy for their green, to which isn't an easy task because there are so many production cues to choose from :)

If I had the bankroll I would go custom everytime, especially since I know exactly what I'm looking for in design, hit, feel and performance, but also a cue that will play every bit as good in 10, 20, 30 years time, as it did from the moment I first hit a ball with it :)

I hope that this helps to give a bit more insight on the topic as a whole :)

Willie
 
So if a custom cue is resold and is no longer custom what is it?

It's not production so what do we call it?

"the cue formerly known as custom"

If it was built by a custom cue maker then it's a custom from now to eternity no matter if it changes hands a hundred times IMHO.
 
bigshooter said:
If it was built by a custom cue maker then it's a custom from now to eternity no matter if it changes hands a hundred times IMHO.
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Amen

Willie
 
bigshooter said:
So if a custom cue is resold and is no longer custom what is it?

It's not production so what do we call it?

"the cue formerly known as custom"

If it was built by a custom cue maker then it's a custom from now to eternity no matter if it changes hands a hundred times IMHO.
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It doesn't like to be referred to by name, but rather by this symbol...:D
 

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what is a custom cue,lets say 3 players call barry up and order new cues,2 of them say it must have green dot,12.75 shafts,and 58.23 inch lenth,but the third says make me something nice like you normally make.
i get the idea that there are those who don't think that the third cue was a custom cue for some reason that i don't understand.
i believe this is putting a strained limitation on the word custom that is not the meaning of the word as it usually is used,
this would mean that most of the balabushkas and szambotis are not custom cues.it would put todays buyer for these high dollar cues in the awkward position of asking who chose the specs,some player who knew next to nothing in order for it to be custom,or did the most famous cuemaker make it the way he thought best.
i buy a lot of cues and this has never been a consideration,when i wanted a custom cue from tim cruggs,i called and asked him to send me a custom cue,when i heard he had one avaiklable today i jumped on it,does anyone doubt that i got a custom cue

dean
 
who is everyone?

The difference, IMO, between production, and custom, is a production cue
comes from a catalog. The rest are 1 off's. (doesn't apply to DP)

There are good production cues and bad, same as the full custom shops,
some good, some bad.
 
Shouldn't the discussion be on "quality vs quantity" or "consistancy vs random luck"???
 
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