Fargo rant

[9BallKY]

I also play just because I like to play. A Fargo rating really doesn't mean anything to me. If I had one I would be fine with it. I'm not a gambler so I'm not trying to sandbag or trap anyone. I play just as hard for fun as I do the finals in a tournament. I know I'm not that good I just like to play. I also have a pretty good idea what my rating would be because of the players I've played against.

I played an open tournament and beat players with a 681 and 688 Fargo rating and two players without a rating. Lost to a765 and a 740. I double dipped a player with a 679 rating a couple weeks ago in the finals of a tournament.

 

[hang-the-9]

I also play just because I like to play. A Fargo rating really doesn't mean anything to me. If I had one I would be fine with it. I'm not a gambler so I'm not trying to sandbag or trap anyone. I play just as hard for fun as I do the finals in a tournament. I know I'm not that good I just like to play. I also have a pretty good idea what my rating would be because of the players I've played against.

I played an open tournament and beat players with a 681 and 688 Fargo rating and two players without a rating. Lost to a765 and a 740. I double dipped a player with a 679 rating a couple weeks ago in the finals of a tournament.

So that would make you about 700 in the system, which is pretty strong, A+ level.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

Yep, I never got the team/player celebrating wins because the other person messed up either. There was one match I remember that the player won because the other player scratched twice when making the 8 ball and was giving up a bunch of games to boot. So basically the guy stood there on the side watching the opponent run out and won anyway. After the match him and the team was hooting and jumping around like they won $100,000 on a lotto ticket.

I'd be embarrassed to win like that and would say "sorry about that win" to the other guy. I mean not only are you getting a spot, you won without really making any shots, who would be happy about that?

Just last night I said, "sorry about that" to two of my opponents playing 9-ball. First one was because I broke and ran out and he didn't get to shoot. The second time, my opponent fouled on the 4-ball, and left me with an easy run out, that he was sure to do had he not fouled.

My teammate told me, "Come on, you're not sorry". Well yeah, I was happy to win, but I like to put myself in my opponent's shoes once in a while.

 

[Maniac]

All you need to be to get a good Fargo rating is to be honest about your ability. If you play with a bunch of players, or even one, that has a solid Fargo rating, and you see what they can do, compare it to what you can do. Then say "I'm same speed as that guy". Issue is that there are maybe 10 honest pool players in the country, especially in leagues. Last tournament I played one of the players asked "Why would you want to have a higher rating?" like it was a bad thing to play good and actually have it be known that you can play good. That is what handicapping does to many players, instead of them trying to play good, they just want to play good enough to beat someone, fair game or not.

I think too many players play for the wrong reason, to win. I don't play to win, I play to play my best. If I happen to beat other players doing that, yay for me.

This sounds like something I would have written myself.

Maniac

 

[alstl]

I don't have a Fargo rating and I don't want one but I have a question. Do tournaments handicap the field based upon Fargo ratings? Is that what the OP is complaining about?

What happens if you play in one of the tournaments as an unknown?

 

[MattPoland]

I don't have a Fargo rating and I don't want one but I have a question. Do tournaments handicap the field based upon Fargo ratings? Is that what the OP is complaining about?



What happens if you play in one of the tournaments as an unknown?

I’ve seen local Fargo Scotch Limit 1100, Fargo 599 and below, Fargo 499 and below, and Fargo Open tournaments. I’ve seen races and spots handicapped based on Fargo differences. “If your robustness is less than 100 your rating may change, Contact Brad...”.

Often people know each other and someone somewhere can vouch for their speed. I wouldn’t be surprised if a player was disqualified if playing too far above their ability in a disingenuous way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fastone371]

I don't have a Fargo rating and I don't want one but I have a question. Do tournaments handicap the field based upon Fargo ratings? Is that what the OP is complaining about?

What happens if you play in one of the tournaments as an unknown?

If you dont have someone reputable to vouch for your speed you would go in at the highest rating in the tournament. If its a capped tournament like 499 and under, 599 and under you are out of luck.

 

[easy-e]

So that would make you about 700 in the system, which is pretty strong, A+ level.

For that one tournament...

 

[easy-e]

I don't have a Fargo rating and I don't want one but I have a question. Do tournaments handicap the field based upon Fargo ratings? Is that what the OP is complaining about?

What happens if you play in one of the tournaments as an unknown?

Good luck being allowed to play in a tournament in AZ without an established Fargo. If it’s a chip tournament they’ll let you play with the least amount of chips, otherwise you’re probably SOL.

 

[hang-the-9]

For that one tournament...

Seems pretty consistent to me though, tough to beat 3 almost 700 players by accident or with luck. A 650 may do it. A 600 I would say has a 10% chance.

 

[hang-the-9]

I don't have a Fargo rating and I don't want one but I have a question. Do tournaments handicap the field based upon Fargo ratings? Is that what the OP is complaining about?

What happens if you play in one of the tournaments as an unknown?

Why would you not want to get put in that rating system? It works best if everyone that plays often and in tournaments and leagues is in it and has a good amount of games recorded. Actually avoiding being in the system is like avoiding being fingerprinted or using a stolen license plate to avoid being IDed in a future crime.

 

[optician]

rant

so i posted this not to rob tournaments, I gambel 99% of time and at one pocket, it just surprised me at the rating since i only played in a backpocket tourn;

 

[easy-e]

Seems pretty consistent to me though, tough to beat 3 almost 700 players by accident or with luck. A 650 may do it. A 600 I would say has a 10% chance.

I’ve seen plenty of tournaments go that way. When I was 25 I played a tournament where I beat at least two 700 speed players and a few mid 600’s. My only two losses were to Kim Davenport and they were close. I’d say my rating was only 600 or so back then.

I’d say the 200 game robustness is still on the low side for gauging a players average speed.

 

[9BallKY]

I’ve seen plenty of tournaments go that way. When I was 25 I played a tournament where I beat at least two 700 speed players and a few mid 600’s. My only two losses were to Kim Davenport and they were close. I’d say my rating was only 600 or so back then.

I’d say the 200 game robustness is still on the low side for gauging a players average speed.

All players lose to players below their speed and win some against higher speed players so your right 200 is probably a little low to get a good average. Anyone that plays at 650 Fargo speed plays well enough with a break or two or just playing really well that day to beat almost anyone.

I would say my rating (if I had one) would be between 675-700. The guy with the 679 rating I have beat him 6 out of the last 7 times we have played. I finished 7th in the state tournament the only time I played in it and finished in the top 40 of a big tournament with a 128 player field about 15 were pro players. Not that anyone cares lol.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

The only way to have players ranked properly is statistics over several tournaments that are not handicapped.

Which raises some skepticism about the use of Fargo in league play. There are handicaps involved, and the league systems are NOT Fargo systems. In my opinion more research is needed to determine the best way to incorporate points per ball systems effectively into the Fargo system. The reality is that even if you make every game ball, you may still be facing a huge point deficit that will have a big effect on the games won outcome.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I think fargorate is a good system, probably the best there is. However like I said in another thread a while back, if your not a top pro and traveling all the time or a league player who get games entered every week you will be lucky to get enough games in the system to be established in 30 years. For example I know a player who has finished top 10 in DCC 9 ball who still doesn't have an established rating.

You, as a player, have the ability to present your concerns to the people that run tournaments near you. Explain to them the benefit of Fargo. Surely there are tournaments near you. Possibly some of those are run by people with 3 digit IQ's, who can understand the benefit of Fargo. Point is, we all can make it happen, but not if we rely on someone else to do it.

KMRUNOUT

 

[lorider]

Which raises some skepticism about the use of Fargo in league play. There are handicaps involved, and the league systems are NOT Fargo systems. In my opinion more research is needed to determine the best way to incorporate points per ball systems effectively into the Fargo system. The reality is that even if you make every game ball, you may still be facing a huge point deficit that will have a big effect on the games won outcome.

KMRUNOUT

Although usapl is a points based format....like apa 9 ball my understanding ....as far as usapl goes.....your fargo rate is based solely on games won.....not points earned in a match..well actually there is more ti it than that....your opponent rating etc but as to your rating in usapl only games won is used....who won the match based on points is irrelevant.

I am going to look up a race and give you an example..

 

[lorider]

I am going to use an example that hang the 9 has alluded to that makes it rough playing low handicaps in usapl. Say you are a 550 and are playing a 225. The points race in 9 ball will be you 75 and your opponent 28. Since each rack is worth 14 points that means you have to win 6 games to tour opponents 2.

Lets say tour opponent wins the lag or flip...whichever you prefer and he makes the 9 on the break. He already has half the points he needs to win the match. You win the next 6 in a row which means you won 6-1. however ....during those 6 racks your opponent managed to score 24 points.

The points total is you 84....your opponents total is 38. Your opponent wins the match due to the fact he scored 10 points over his required total and you scored 9 over.

Confusing huh ? Not really .. Unlike apa where you atop she you reach your required points you have to finish the last rack in usapl a d there have been many matches where the loser had reached his required points first in the last rack o ly to lose the match due to his opponent making the 9 .

I forgot to mention the biggest factor in the points race between apa and usapl.

In apa you can break and run 8 balls and your opponent makes the 9 and you win the rack 8-2. In usapl the score would be you 8...your opponent 14. the money ball is worth 14 points . Any other balls you made that rack is irrelevant and your opponent gets 1 point for each ball.hw made that rack.

But again....points made are irrelevant ....fargo just scores the match...you 6...your opponent 1.

 

[chefjeff]

(snip)
I think too many players play for the wrong reason, to win. I don't play to win, I play to play my best. If I happen to beat other players doing that, yay for me.

I get that attitude and it has its place, yet there comes a time when that attitude has to be set aside and adopt the winning one instead.

I say that because years ago when I gambled, I had the winning attitude even though my fundies were not nearly as good as they are now (because of the "play my best" attitude that I have that led me to better play over the years) and that winning attitude paid well. Now, that I play much better, it's like I've forgotten how to win.

That's bad, mmkay?

There has to be a way to do both successfully. Anyone?



Jeff Livingston

 

[drlouis]

I get that attitude and it has its place, yet there comes a time when that attitude has to be set aside and adopt the winning one instead.

I say that because years ago when I gambled, I had the winning attitude even though my fundies were not nearly as good as they are now (because of the "play my best" attitude that I have that led me to better play over the years) and that winning attitude paid well. Now, that I play much better, it's like I've forgotten how to win.

That's bad, mmkay?

There has to be a way to do both successfully. Anyone?



Jeff Livingston

I think the difference is the "play to win", vs "play to win by any means you can". Sandbagging (imnsho) is Paramount to cheating. Take that gambling "win at all costs" mentality and confine it to the rules and good sportsmanship and you have a winning attitude/philosophy I believe.