ferrule material
- Thread starter qbilder
- Start date
Not I but aparently they don't want you to know much about it either.... no description no picture. Kinda funny though they only sell it in tube but sell threaded and capped ferrules.
Delrin Glue weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....
John
Delrin Glue weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....
John
My thoughts too LOL
ferrule
Isn't that what they were putting on the universal smart shaft. Think it's the same program that happened with titan material. Chinese manufacturer gets an exclusive for a while, then either switch's material or copies it.
Atlas then puts it back on the market. I'd bet it's just another type of thermoplastic.
Isn't that what they were putting on the universal smart shaft. Think it's the same program that happened with titan material. Chinese manufacturer gets an exclusive for a while, then either switch's material or copies it.
Atlas then puts it back on the market. I'd bet it's just another type of thermoplastic.
Sounds about typical. Prolly too soft & fragile for me, but it's cheap so I think i'll try some.
Eric Wynne
Banned
The consistency of the suppliers the last few years appears to be lacking ... some of the products quality also ... I haven't had much luck with Atlas lately and they no longer offer LBM ... I've tested the waters and researched some of the plastics companies and ordered some material that resembles what some one claims micarta , but is actually a fiber reinforced epoxy resin thermoset material that closely resembles LBM ... If it works out I'll post exactly what it is and my source ... It's expensive but I hope it's durable and plays well ... This new stuff from Atlas I'm going to pass on ... 
I talk with John and Eric yesterday at Atlas. From what I was told the new XTC ferule material is the closest material to what Predator uses. I ordered a rod of it and I will be trying some of it out when I get it the first of the week. It is supposed to machine just like the Titan and has a really white color to it. They are telling me that it is better than the Titan. So for the cost of it I am going to give it a try. Maybe KJ can elaborate on the comparision of XTC and Predator ferules!!
Well, from what I have heard, the original Micarta was an asbestos fiber reinforced epoxy resin. So it might be a good alternative. Let me know..
Josh
Hi Eric, what kind of Material you use on my Cue for the Shafts
looks good and feel very good with that.
Ralf
looks good and feel very good with that.
Ralf
XTC from my informations is also used on several buffalo cues. Superglue bonds not well on the ferrule. I change a ferrule after the tip fall of x.. times during retipping. I'm not convinced of XTC.
I think Juma is the best all around ferrule on the market at the moment.
I think Juma is the best all around ferrule on the market at the moment.
Hi Eric, what kind of Material you use on my Cue for the Shafts
looks good and feel very good with that.
Ralf
A really good melamine. Still the best, IMO. But i'm always searching
Doug,
Thanks for sharing that. Now I will be sure not to try it. I want nothing to do with anything that closely mimics the Predator shaft circus. Mostly Madison Ave marketing stuff.
Don't get me wrong I understand how the LD engineering works, I just am old school when it comes down to replacing a maple shaft on a custom made cue. You still have to know where the hit points are on the object ball. It just changes to a different place with predator. Great player understand that you are a smarter player when you hit as close to center ball with consistency. One of my best friend for 30 years (Wendell Weir) could run 150 balls back to back on any given day in his prime preached vertical center ball hit. Although he did use english, he would often say "when I have to put juice on the ball the is not a hanger, the hair on the back of my head raises up". The whole idea of the predator shaft seems to promote spinning the ball and people go the wrong direction in their way of approaching the game.
If you have a predator shaft in your case mixed with maple shaft and you use them both from time to time, you are hurting you game. If you want predator, then you must stay with that. Going back and forth won't help you. When a supplier tells you not to sand the ferrule or you lose the warrantee, they lose me forever. Anyone who owns a cue wants a clean ferrule now and then. Oh that's right, I can send the shaft back to them for work and they know how to sand it. Pleeeeeeese!!!!!!
I would never put a Predator ferrule or shaft on one of my cues. Never!! If someone wants to give me money to do that, I don't want their money!!
JMO,
Rick
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Rick,
I sense some frustration. You're not holding back on us now are you?
As far as the sanding of the ferrule, I'm not aware of that provision.
Just keep it above specified limits and you're good to go.
314-2, 12.3mm - Z-2, 11.3mm.
Predator shafts, we'll I guess they ain't for everybody.
Your opinions are appreciated Rick. You can't fix something `til you know
where it's broke.
"I would never put a Predator ferrule or shaft on one of my cues. Never!!
If someone wants to give me money to do that, I don't want their money!!"
FWIW, it's good money.
I sense some frustration. You're not holding back on us now are you?
As far as the sanding of the ferrule, I'm not aware of that provision.
Just keep it above specified limits and you're good to go.
314-2, 12.3mm - Z-2, 11.3mm.
Predator shafts, we'll I guess they ain't for everybody.
Your opinions are appreciated Rick. You can't fix something `til you know
where it's broke.
"I would never put a Predator ferrule or shaft on one of my cues. Never!!
If someone wants to give me money to do that, I don't want their money!!"
FWIW, it's good money.
KJ, if the shaft is NOT BORED, what difference does the ferrule make ?
If they want lightweight and thin, I can install one with 3/8 24 thread and no cap. It will have a very reasonable deflection characteristics imo.
I don't like those soft ferrules b/c they kill resonance. And they have a high probability of breakage.
I don't like the feeling of expecting my shafts' ferrules breaking often.
I'd like them to last a long time. If not for the life of the shafts.
According to very well connected sources - only the Military could buy
the asbestos version. What was used for ferrules was fibre/paper reinforced.
Dale
Hi Joey,
I don't believe I understand your first question.
Predator shafts ARE STEP-BORED for the first 5", .285" down to .250".
Tenon diameter on the 314 is .400 stepped to .416"(or thereabouts).
I'll have to say that the ferrule mtrl. isn't as soft as what some may think.
It's cuts like a polycarbonate and may even be on the brittle side.
The ferrule's wall-thickness is suspect.
In all honesty, I haven't replaced a lot of them lately.
Two of the last three were Z shafts which the owners had hammered the balls/rack
so hard that they split the shaft, but that's another Donahue.
I don't believe that any Predator shaft was designed with resonance/hit in mind.
Their goal was performance. Feel, not so much.
In this case, it was part of the trade-off. You can tweak physics but you give-up
something on the backside.
When you consider the shaft's wall thickness for the first 5", it's easy to understand
that there isn't a great deal of mtrl. left to do much resonating.
What gets to the solid/spliced portion of the shaft is already greatly diminished.
In my opinion, nothing 'hits' as well as a well made 1pc shaft.
Those that place performance first, usually select Predator.
I don't believe I understand your first question.
Predator shafts ARE STEP-BORED for the first 5", .285" down to .250".
Tenon diameter on the 314 is .400 stepped to .416"(or thereabouts).
I'll have to say that the ferrule mtrl. isn't as soft as what some may think.
It's cuts like a polycarbonate and may even be on the brittle side.
The ferrule's wall-thickness is suspect.
In all honesty, I haven't replaced a lot of them lately.
Two of the last three were Z shafts which the owners had hammered the balls/rack
so hard that they split the shaft, but that's another Donahue.
I don't believe that any Predator shaft was designed with resonance/hit in mind.
Their goal was performance. Feel, not so much.
In this case, it was part of the trade-off. You can tweak physics but you give-up
something on the backside.
When you consider the shaft's wall thickness for the first 5", it's easy to understand
that there isn't a great deal of mtrl. left to do much resonating.
What gets to the solid/spliced portion of the shaft is already greatly diminished.
In my opinion, nothing 'hits' as well as a well made 1pc shaft.
Those that place performance first, usually select Predator.
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KJ,
Well said. I know that the Predator Engineering is not BS and I can prove it works on a table to anyone.
I have found that in marketing my cues that I draw in people that want a very stiff hit. I am very happy with the response so far so I do not want to have my cues be all things to all people. Hence no predator shafts here. I am developing that stiff hit association with my cue and want to work on that nitch market only.
I guess I did go off on Predator a little and I know they make a fine product. Just not for me as I am a traditionalist with pool cues.
Laminated Pie shafts with LD Ends will never replace talent. Talent being equal, I don't think having a Predator or Standard Maple shaft matters a bit.
I see B players in my pool room with the latest 314, Z or whatever flavor they have out there and they still pound the object ball a diamond off into the rail. They are laboring under the fallacy that they can buy a better pool game as that is what Predator is selling at the end of the day. L-Drills, hitting more vertical center ball and playing in tournaments or in action is the way to get better if your fundamentals are not flawed.
Predator promotes that you can use more side english with less compensation on the object ball. The best way to miss a pocket is to put side spin on a ball. It seems to me that approaching the game from a center ball hit with using the minimum amount of side spin is just a better way to do it. When you take all of the side spin variables out, the odds percentage of pocketing a ball goes way up. When you have to spin and compensate the pocket due to position, then you got to think, "Danger Will Robinson" and be careful.
When Efren and Rudy start using Predator, maybe I will change my mind. I am sure Predator has offered them many enticements to use their equipment but they don't seem to bite for some reason. Who spins the ball more than Efren and who feathers a cut shot better than Rudy?
Rick
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With respect to the OP, his thread and his topic, XTC ferrules, I don't
think it appropriate to interject a discussion about Predator shafts and who
uses them and who doesn't. The topic of Predator ferrules was touched-on.
To clarify something before it gets taken as fact, to the best of my knowledge,
no Pro is paid to use Predator equipment. They do so of their own choosing.
At any one time, that may be btwn 25 & 50% of the Pros on tour.
Predator used to keep a current list of them on their site.
I've built shafts for some of these Pros, even some who are sponsored by another cue
company.
There's one obvious stipulation and that is that the logo/decal must not be applied.
Otherwise, they lose the sponsorship of the company they are representing.
So, when you watch these Pros play you might ask yourself: Is it a Predator or not?
I know that Alex likes them and his game's not too shabby.
Topic for another thread.
think it appropriate to interject a discussion about Predator shafts and who
uses them and who doesn't. The topic of Predator ferrules was touched-on.
To clarify something before it gets taken as fact, to the best of my knowledge,
no Pro is paid to use Predator equipment. They do so of their own choosing.
At any one time, that may be btwn 25 & 50% of the Pros on tour.
Predator used to keep a current list of them on their site.
I've built shafts for some of these Pros, even some who are sponsored by another cue
company.
There's one obvious stipulation and that is that the logo/decal must not be applied.
Otherwise, they lose the sponsorship of the company they are representing.
So, when you watch these Pros play you might ask yourself: Is it a Predator or not?
I know that Alex likes them and his game's not too shabby.
Topic for another thread.
Hi,
I thought that threads tend to evolve. Ferrule material to Predator seems pretty relevant.
So predator does not give pros free shafts?
If predator made that much of a difference, I am thinking most pros would use them. Not 25% to 50%.:deadhorse: As I said "talent being equal it's not a big issue. Someone wants a Predator and it makes them feel good, I am all for it. But not on cues I build. I like real dense ferrules on my shafts.
JMO
Rick
I thought that threads tend to evolve. Ferrule material to Predator seems pretty relevant.
So predator does not give pros free shafts?
If predator made that much of a difference, I am thinking most pros would use them. Not 25% to 50%.:deadhorse: As I said "talent being equal it's not a big issue. Someone wants a Predator and it makes them feel good, I am all for it. But not on cues I build. I like real dense ferrules on my shafts.
JMO
Rick
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