Fight at Hardtimes in Sacramento?

[jay helfert]

Jay
Thank you. When you visit him would you please tell him we have him in our prayers. I will try to contact him. He was good to me when I was working construction away from home in California.

Thanks Jack. Tom will be keeping a close eye on his progress I'm sure, and can let us know how he is doing. No question his leg will heal okay. It is his head injuries that are most troubling. He took a bad fall and a severe blow to the back of his head. There was internal swelling in the back of his head (brain tissue), but the docters have reduced that already.

It remains to be seen how well he will recover. If he is walking and talking normally within one year, I think that will be a remarkable recovery from this type of injury. It could be worse. It could have been fatal.

 

[John Barton]

Just yesterday, I was at a small tournament and someone had a flyer in their hand - it was for a memorial event for this kid. The last name looked familiar - it turns out he was the grandson of a fellow I played against in Valley league here. The kid was killed ten years ago, when he was sixteen - he and a pal were in the more metro-y area of Denver from out in the sticks, and some kid walks up behind him and caps him in the head, and tries to shoot his buddy too. The kid got caught - turns out it was a gang initiation.

Humanity is broken.

Yes it is. :-(

 

[nfty9er]

Were you just trying to downplay?

Chose what you want to believe.
No one was shot.

I read the comments at the bottom of the news report and they mostly sound like 'bandwagon jumpers'

Did you read all the comments?

It looks like you were wrong again. You posted a report on Chuck, can we believe that? I hope so. You must have known more when you made your original post and chose not to tell us the seriiousness of the incident. You have your reasons I guess but for the people who know Chuck and consider him a friend and business associate I felt it behooved you to be more forthcoming if you knew. I hope you delete your prior post where you emphatically told everyone "No One Was Shot" Thank the lord Chuck was not shot although what he in enduring is not something anyone would
care to be feeling.

 

[jay helfert]

It looks like you were wrong again. You posted a report on Chuck, can we believe that? I hope so. You must have known more when you made your original post and chose not to tell us the seriiousness of the incident. You have your reasons I guess but for the people who know Chuck and consider him a friend and business associate I felt it behooved you to be more forthcoming if you knew. I hope you delete your prior post where you emphatically told everyone "No One Was Shot" Thank the lord Chuck was not shot although what he in enduring is not something anyone would
care to be feeling.

Tom DIDN"T know! And he may not have known how badly Chuck was injured either. In fact, it is not clear yet the extent and seriousness of his head injury. Only time will tell us that. I'm just hoping for the best. Chuck is a great guy! Man, I'm bummed right now.

 

[nfty9er]

My glass is half full

I don't have good news about Chuck Markulis, the part owner (with his son) of Hard Times Sacramento. He is in very serious condition in the intensive care unit of Mercy San Juan Hospital. He suffered major trauma to his head and leg. He is still comatose and has some internal head injuries. How serious they are has not been determined. At best, he faces a long and arduous recovery, and at worst he will be disabled for life. Chuck is a 70 year old man, so his prognosis is not as good as it would be for a 40 year old.

Chuck was one of the best friends any pool player ever had. He put on absolutely the best poolroom tournaments I ever saw (or worked on). We used to get world class fields at the original Hard Times in Los Angeles. Chuck would do anything for a pool player to help them out. He had tremendous respect for the talent they possessed.

The incident was a serious gang war with multiple participants. The fight spilled over from the poolroom into the parking lot. The gangsters were using short billy clubs to administer a beating to two individuals they were feuding with. When Chuck tried to break it up, one of the gangsters jumped in his pick-up truck and ran him down. He then crashed through the wall into the poolroom, dragging a security guard along. The security guard was fortunate to only receive major leg injuries.

When people started screaming that Chuck was down, someone from inside the poolroom emerged with a gun and shot and killed one of the gangsters. This caused the rest of them to flee. The police have rounded up several suspects.

This was not a minor street fight. Four people are in the hospital and one is in the morgue. Chuck will likely never return to work at Hard Times, and it may take years for him to learn to walk and talk again.

I felt that it is important that if people are talking about something, they should know what really happened. Covering up the seriousness of the crime is not the answer.

My prayers are for Chuck, that he recover from this horrendous experience and enjoy the rest of his life. He has worked hard for so long, he deserves a rest. That is all that matters to me now. What happens with the poolroom is secondary. Chuck Markulis and I were partners in producing some of the greatest tournaments ever in Southern California. We got along great and he was a pleasure to work with every day. Anything I asked for to make an event better, he would say yes to immediately. He would look at me and say "Let's do it!" And we damn sure did!

When he regains consciousness I plan to go visit him. I'll let you know how he's doing. Almost all the top players know Chuck and have tremendous respect for him.

The good news is, Chuck is still alive, so its not all bad.
I met Chuck after he came from Los Angeles and as fellow room owners we had a lot in common and everytime I went to Sacramento we would have some long and pleasant conversations. I think we each learned a few things from each other. I found Chuck was not a selfish person and would offer advice, tips, suggestions if asked. Some room owners egos would not allow them to share with other room owners any information for fear they would use it against them for some reason. Chuck was not like that and that is what endeared me to him. I just wish he would have travelled my way once in awhile. I was amazed at his stamina from night to night on the weekends as he seemed to have no problem staying late at night to keep an eye on things even at his age. I cannot do that anymore no matter now hard I try. Kudos to him and if I know people like I think I do, Chuck has a lot of heart and I am sure he will be back keeping an eye on everything, even if it has to be in a wheelchair.

Tom, I think you should take the computer to the hospital when you can and show him the nice things people will say on this thread. It might cheer him up.

 

[nfty9er]

Why, oh why oh why?

As a previous owner/partner in several large poolrooms, I can tell you the emphasis is always on keeping an eye on what's going on inside the room. I constantly walk around the place and check out the people and see what's happening in every nook and cranny. If someone is getting too loud, I will walk over and just watch them for a while. Usually they get the message without me saying anything.

My philosophy is that the poolroom is neutral territory, where all people can mingle safely. I don't care what a guy does on the outside, in here he must mind his manners. He can be a gang leader or a dope dealer (I can't screen everybody) but when he is in my room, he must respect my equipment and the other customers. PERIOD!

The word gets around quick what you can or can't get away with in a place. The worst thing you can do to someone who wants to hang around your spot, is kick them out. So they mind their manners because they want to stick around. I have no problem confronting the biggest guys (and we had them at Hollywood Park) and telling them they have to keep it down, or not to sit on the tables, or don't set their drinks on the rails. I think they respected the fact that I would approach them myself with no bodyguards or other help.

My philosophy is that this is my place and I pay the bills. So the only one that is going to run it is me. I had one encounter with a gang member once where he said he would kick my ass if I bothered him anymore. He had three gangster buddies with him and they were playing pool, drinking beer and raising hell. I looked at him and told him he would have to kick my ass and eat me too. They all started laughing and that was the end of it.

So that's how I took care of things inside. Outside is another story. Sh-t happens in parking lots that can be out of your control. Hollywood Park had security to the max outside and still there were occasional fights, robberies and even a shooting or two. The most exciting part of my day was walking out at night with the days receipts in my pocket. It was after two in the morning and I was alone. Yes, I was packing my little .25 but I watched all around me to see if anyone was following me or hiding somewhere. I never parked in the same spot two nights in a row.

I know the brothers all respected me, but there were still a lot of outlaws in that neck of the woods. Just being extra careful was all I needed. And I was, every single night for four years. I was well aware of the potential dangers in being complacent.

I agree about everything but (as another poster said) why would you even think of asking for trouble carrying out all the cash. Man have you ever heard of floor safes? No offense but I would worry about you if you open up another room. How does that .25 protect you if someone holds a .45 on you. You going to outdraw him before he shoots you. Not even worth taking that chance. I know, to each his own. Did you close 7 nights a week? Where did employees put the money if they closed.
I am sorry that is the craziest thing I ever heard.

 

[nfty9er]

Sorry

Tom DIDN"T know! And he may not have known how badly Chuck was injured either. In fact, it is not clear yet the extent and seriousness of his head injury. Only time will tell us that. I'm just hoping for the best. Chuck is a great guy! Man, I'm bummed right now.

But the problem is he acted like he knew and he told me to believe whoever i wanted, and insisted no one was shot, insinuating the Sheriff did not know what they were talking about. He had to have known by then how bad the gang fight was.

 

[jay helfert]

I agree about everything but (as another poster said) why would you even think of asking for trouble carrying out all the cash. Man have you ever heard of floor safes? No offense but I would worry about you if you open up another room. How does that .25 protect you if someone holds a .45 on you. You going to outdraw him before he shoots you. Not even worth taking that chance. I know, to each his own. Did you close 7 nights a week? Where did employees put the money if they closed.
I am sorry that is the craziest thing I ever heard.

I actually had an account in the casino, where I could deposit money. I just don't like to let people see me handling large amounts of money in public (the bad guys watched the cages). After we closed at night, I would count the money in the office and put it in my belt pouch. No one (except a few employees) knew how I handled the receipts.

It really made little difference walking out into that huge (and not well lit) parking lot at night, whether I was carrying thousands or only a few hundred. I could be a target for someone and I knew it. I always carry a throw away bankroll of a couple of hundred, if you know what I mean. I closed every night when in town which was most of the time. I wanted first count on the money.

As far as the .25 goes, it has one key element that I like. It's so small you can fit it in the palm of your hand. You now have the element of surprise. You appear to be unarmed. Up close, it is just as deadly as any other weapon. I hope I never have to use it that way. That is why I am so cautious, when leaving poolrooms and casinos.

Hey, I could have nailed the guy who tried to get in my car in Lake Elsinore. It was only a .22 derringer, but from two feet away, it would have been very painful for him. That one was a close call. He's lucky my car started right up.

 

[jay helfert]

I agree about everything but (as another poster said) why would you even think of asking for trouble carrying out all the cash. Man have you ever heard of floor safes? No offense but I would worry about you if you open up another room. How does that .25 protect you if someone holds a .45 on you. You going to outdraw him before he shoots you. Not even worth taking that chance. I know, to each his own. Did you close 7 nights a week? Where did employees put the money if they closed.
I am sorry that is the craziest thing I ever heard.

I'll tell you why I don't like floor safes. Pretty soon, people know you have a safe on the premises. Some gangsters prefer coming in at closing and herding the employees into the office and having the manager open the safe. This is an invitation to get killed. I'll pass on this one.

I've gone nearly forty years as a gambler and room owner and have not been robbed yet. Two attempts have failed. Knock on wood!

I think I know something by now how best to protect myself. And it's not all by the book. Being too cautious can work against you too. I won't elaborate on that here.

 

[yobagua]

The last time I was up in SacTown. I told Chuck thanks so much for having a great tournament like the Jamboree. He said to me "No, No,thank you. If it wasnt for fans like you there would be no place like this." He is a great guy and it breaks my heart to hear that he is badly injured. My prayers are for him.

 

[blah blah]

I will send a card this week. My best wishes to Chuck, to his family, and to the staff at Hard Times. May his speedy recovery surprise us all as his absence is sorely missed.

Thank you Tom, Mike, and Jay for the updates. I understand that during painful and traumatic times all information relayed is subject to change, and I do appreciate any news at all.

Nifty9er: The world is not out to trick you. AZB is as reliable as spoken conversations in your own poolroom. (To save you a few minutes, I too believed Rafeal was dead.)

 

[CrownCityCorey]

I don't have good news about Chuck Markulis, the part owner (with his son) of Hard Times Sacramento. He is in very serious condition in the intensive care unit of Mercy San Juan Hospital. He suffered major trauma to his head and leg. He is still comatose and has some internal head injuries. How serious they are has not been determined. At best, he faces a long and arduous recovery, and at worst he will be disabled for life. Chuck is a 70 year old man, so his prognosis is not as good as it would be for a 40 year old.

Chuck was one of the best friends any pool player ever had. He put on absolutely the best poolroom tournaments I ever saw (or worked on). We used to get world class fields at the original Hard Times in Los Angeles. Chuck would do anything for a pool player to help them out. He had tremendous respect for the talent they possessed.

The incident was a serious gang war with multiple participants. The fight spilled over from the poolroom into the parking lot. The gangsters were using short billy clubs to administer a beating to two individuals they were feuding with. When Chuck tried to break it up, one of the gangsters jumped in his pick-up truck and ran him down. He then crashed through the wall into the poolroom, dragging a security guard along. The security guard was fortunate to only receive major leg injuries.

When people started screaming that Chuck was down, someone from inside the poolroom emerged with a gun and shot and killed one of the gangsters. This caused the rest of them to flee. The police have rounded up several suspects.

This was not a minor street fight. Four people are in the hospital and one is in the morgue. Chuck will likely never return to work at Hard Times, and it may take years for him to learn to walk and talk again.

I felt that it is important that if people are talking about something, they should know what really happened. Covering up the seriousness of the crime is not the answer.

My prayers are for Chuck, that he recover from this horrendous experience and enjoy the rest of his life. He has worked hard for so long, he deserves a rest. That is all that matters to me now. What happens with the poolroom is secondary. Chuck Markulis and I were partners in producing some of the greatest tournaments ever in Southern California. We got along great and he was a pleasure to work with every day. Anything I asked for to make an event better, he would say yes to immediately. He would look at me and say "Let's do it!" And we damn sure did!

When he regains consciousness I plan to go visit him. I'll let you know how he's doing. Almost all the top players know Chuck and have tremendous respect for him.

I am very sorry to hear of this event.

I have known Chuck for many, many years (worked for him as well) and he is by far one of the best room owners and friend to poolplayers out there.

I wish him a speedy and complete recovery.

 

[Rickw]

Jay,

Thanks for providing all that info! Sounds to me like this was just one of those really bad situations that are very difficult or impossible to have dealt with any better. These gangbangers were going to get this guy they were after and unfortunately, he was in Hardtimes when they found him.

I sincerely hope that Chuck makes a full recovery from his injuries. In spite of this terrible incident, Hardtimes is a wonderful place to play pool and I hope this one bad incident doesn't in any way detract from that. My prayers and best wishes to the Markulis family!

 

[nfty9er]

Sorry Jay, I trump you

I'll tell you why I don't like floor safes. Pretty soon, people know you have a safe on the premises. Some gangsters prefer coming in at closing and herding the employees into the office and having the manager open the safe. This is an invitation to get killed. I'll pass on this one.

I've gone nearly forty years as a gambler and room owner and have not been robbed yet. Two attempts have failed. Knock on wood!

I think I know something by now how best to protect myself. And it's not all by the book. Being too cautious can work against you too. I won't elaborate on that here.

I have 55 years of gambling and a room owner, and not one attempt. Dang for the life of me I cannot think of or know of any instance where "gangsters" herded employees into an office in a pool room. If gangsters were after you it would make no difference if they knew you stashed money in a safe or thought you were carrying it. My common sense choice would be not to carry it out in the open, especially walking away from Hollywood Park.
I have always felt, however, that pool rooms for some reason were a safe house for people to commit crimes against. Maybe it comes from the old school connotation that pool rooms were hangouts for all the bad in the world and you don't rob from your kind. Just an opinion.

 

[jay helfert]

I have 55 years of gambling and a room owner, and not one attempt. Dang for the life of me I cannot think of or know of any instance where "gangsters" herded employees into an office in a pool room. If gangsters were after you it would make no difference if they knew you stashed money in a safe or thought you were carrying it. My common sense choice would be not to carry it out in the open, especially walking away from Hollywood Park.
I have always felt, however, that pool rooms for some reason were a safe house for people to commit crimes against. Maybe it comes from the old school connotation that pool rooms were hangouts for all the bad in the world and you don't rob from your kind. Just an opinion.

In Southern Cal there have been several similar robberies of restaurants and other businesses over the years. No poolrooms yet, but I don't want to be the first. Unfortunately when this has happened, there have been several instances of the robbers "getting rid" of all witnesses. And when it is only one employee (like me), the trip to the office safe is like a death march.

Maybe it hasn't happened in your neck of the woods. You'd remember if it did. You are also the exception if after all these years no one has tried to rob you. I can't think of anyone else who has been around that long who can say that.

 

[Jack Madden]

And sometimes the hardest part for a player after matching up, playing, and winning is getting out of the parking lot and home.

 

[dabarbr]

And sometimes the hardest part for a player after matching up, playing, and winning is getting out of the parking lot and home.

I can relate to that. Happened to me twice. Once with a gun and once with a knife.

 

[Fatboy]

I am very sorry to hear of this event.

I have known Chuck for many, many years (worked for him as well) and he is by far one of the best room owners and friend to poolplayers out there.

I wish him a speedy and complete recovery.

well said Corey.

 

[Deadon]

Just a little update for all the nice people that have wished Chuck well;

He has been improving, slowly but surely. He improved enough that the Drs. were able to perform the surgery on his legs. They, I'm not sure of both, had have rods placed in them to hold the bones in place. He is still in ICU and is not ready, by a long way, to have any visitors. He is responsive to voices, but he hasn't been able to talk yet. I'll post info as I find out anything new. The worst part is over, that for sure.

Mike

 

[Jack Madden]

Just a little update for all the nice people that have wished Chuck well;

He has been improving, slowly but surely. He improved enough that the Drs. were able to perform the surgery on his legs. They, I'm not sure of both, had have rods placed in them to hold the bones in place. He is still in ICU and is not ready, by a long way, to have any visitors. He is responsive to voices, but he hasn't been able to talk yet. I'll post info as I find out anything new. The worst part is over, that for sure.

Mike

Mike
Thanks --- this morning I was told by another source he was still in a coma - so this is better.