Filipinos Losing It?

[sjm]

I just watched the great Yang get destroyed in back to back weeks by Carlo Biado and Francisco. Both the Pinoy players put the pressure on early and never let up. I think he left Manila gasping for air.

The Pinoys are not performing the way they used to, although they are still incredibly great players. They are most definitely not head and shoulders above the rest the way they once were.

Souquet recently went to the Phillipines and knocked off Orcullo aqnd Biado in consecutive exhibitions on their turf.

At the Derby City 9-ball event, Alex and Orcullo were both among the last six, and Busty, Vann Cortezza and Kiamco wee in the field, but the last three standing were Van Boening, Moore and Dechaine, three Americans.

Personally, I would expect a European team of Appleton, Souquet, Feijen, Immonen and Hohmann to be favored over any team of five that the Phillipines could put together. Come to think of it, I'd sure like to be there if such a match ever came off.

 

[Celtic]

I hate to say it, but a team of the top five filipinos (Dennis, Lee Vann, Bustie, Alex and either Ronnie, Efren or Carlo Biado) would be a favorite over any team from any other country (or continent for that matter). Only China (a combined team) would be close
<snip>
I just watched the great Yang get destroyed in back to back weeks by Carlo Biado and Francisco. Both the Pinoy players put the pressure on early and never let up. I think he left Manila gasping for air.

Those were short sets, what race to 9? Matches like that mean very little. The last time Yang played a long set against a Philipino he drilled Orcullo in his own home town. I don't think flying out to the Philipines and getting beat in a couple races to 9 really mean that much.

I still like China over the Philipines in a long session team match. Wu, Chang, Kou, Yang, and Ko, that team has no weak link and any one of those guys is in the mix for best player in the world at any given moment along with 30 other players on this planet given the ease of the tables this sport is played on.

Even Europe if you go for only 5 players is a monster. Ralf, Thorsten, Mika, Appleton, and Neils? That team is not easy, and they have VDB and Melling in the wings as well if you want to replace someone. Mind you, that is the entire of Europe vs actual countries.

The USA is certainly #4, and they are gifted that spot only because no other areas/countries are compared. There are good enough players in the Middle East now such that I am not sure the USA would be a favorite against the top 5 from even that area.

 

[jay helfert]

I think Yang went through a lost period after he lost interest for the game.

Can you give more details on his level at the moment?

I think Wu could be a better choice at the moment.

Yang is still a great player, capable of beating anyone. But he no longer is quite as intimidating as he once was. That's probably the biggest difference I see in his game. That said, I don't see anyone rushing to play him a long set, like a Race to 50. I'm not sure Shane or even Dennis is anxious to try him in a long race. You can see that if this guy falls into stroke, he is capable of playing a higher speed than just about anyone.

 

[jay helfert]

The Pinoys are not performing the way they used to, although they are still incredibly great players. They are most definitely not head and shoulders above the rest the way they once were.

Souquet recently went to the Phillipines and knocked off Orcullo aqnd Biado in consecutive exhibitions on their turf.

At the Derby City 9-ball event, Alex and Orcullo were both among the last six, and Busty, Vann Cortezza and Kiamco wee in the field, but the last three standing were Van Boening, Moore and Dechaine, three Americans.

Personally, I would expect a European team of Appleton, Souquet, Feijen, Immonen and Hohmann to be favored over any team of five that the Phillipines could put together. Come to think of it, I'd sure like to be there if such a match ever came off.

I can sense a definite waning of enthusiasm over there. Only Dennis is still rev'ed up to play in all the big tournaments. Francisco, Efren, Lee Vann and the others pick their spots more carefully. I think the travel can get to them as well. Not only that, some of the biggest backers of pool in the PI have curtailed their activities and cut back on sponsorship of players. Without backers they can't afford to travel, simple as that.

All that said, I wouldn't ever be surprised to see a Pinoy win a major event. These guys have an intangible that can't be taught. They know how to win and play under pressure as good or better than anyone else. If a super strong European team ventured over there for a big match, I would bet the Pinoys all the way. Put five of these guys together and they feed on each other.

 

[sjm]

All that said, I wouldn't ever be surprised to see a Pinoy win a major event. These guys have an intangible that can't be taught. They know how to win and play under pressure as good or better than anyone else. If a super strong European team ventured over there for a big match, I would bet the Pinoys all the way. Put five of these guys together and they feed on each other.

Nor I, Jay. Let's not overlook that Francisco beat the field into submission in the Derby City "Fatboy 10-ball" challenge, which had as strong a field as one can imagine.

The Pinoys still have many superstars, but the advantage they enjoyed over the rest of the pack was once substantial. I really don't think the current crop is on a par with what I saw 15 years ago when Andam, Luat, Reyes, Bustamante, Parica and Lining scared the living hell out of most of their opponents.

 

[Maxx]

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed a dearth of Pinoys in the top 10 AZB Money Leader Board? This would have been almost inconceivable a couple of years back but it seems the Pinoys haven't been winning the big tournaments lately...have we seen the end of Filipino Pool dominance? And what could have been the factors that led to it?

Maybe rumors of the decline are unfounded! :smile:
US Open 10 ball, 1, 2, & 3.

 

[JoeyA]

Maybe rumors of the decline are unfounded! :smile:
US Open 10 ball, 1, 2, & 3.

The Filipinos must have been told about this thread.

 

[Renegade]

Guess I spoke too soon!

 

[alstl]

Maybe they're tired of being groped by the TSA.

Yep

cost of travel vs low payouts.

 

[Maxx]

No.

As I was watching the finals of this year's US Open made I remembered this thread. fFve out of the final six, not too shabby.

 

[vincentwu817]

I hate to say it, but a team of the top five filipinos (Dennis, Lee Vann, Bustie, Alex and either Ronnie, Efren or Carlo Biado) would be a favorite over any team from any other country (or continent for that matter). Only China (a combined team) would be close, with Europe a third choice. The USA is fourth in this equation sorry to say.

If there was a Mosconi Cup type competition with teams from four continents facing the filipino team, I'd be betting on the Pinoys. One thing about these guys, they know how to win and aren't afraid to win. In fact they really WANT to win! If you think these things aren't factors then you don't really know much about team sports.

I just watched the great Yang get destroyed in back to back weeks by Carlo Biado and Francisco. Both the Pinoy players put the pressure on early and never let up. I think he left Manila gasping for air.

Jay, by China, do you mean Taiwan/China combined?

 

[CreeDo]

5 of the final 8 in the US Open are pinoys, that tells me they're doing just fine.... A short race and a bad roll sometimes means thousands of bucks lost.

 

[Maniac]

.... A short race and a bad roll sometimes means thousands of bucks lost.

Or a lucked-in 9-ball in a hill-hill match :wink:.

Maniac

 

[Donny Lutz]

Jay is the man

I hate to say it, but a team of the top five filipinos (Dennis, Lee Vann, Bustie, Alex and either Ronnie, Efren or Carlo Biado) would be a favorite over any team from any other country (or continent for that matter). Only China (a combined team) would be close, with Europe a third choice. The USA is fourth in this equation sorry to say.

If there was a Mosconi Cup type competition with teams from four continents facing the filipino team, I'd be betting on the Pinoys. One thing about these guys, they know how to win and aren't afraid to win. In fact they really WANT to win! If you think these things aren't factors then you don't really know much about team sports.

I just watched the great Yang get destroyed in back to back weeks by Carlo Biado and Francisco. Both the Pinoy players put the pressure on early and never let up. I think he left Manila gasping for air.

As usual, you speak from knowledge and experience.

I'd only add that it can be a tough call because we've traditionally played different games in the US, Europe and Asia

 

[Donny Lutz]

Well said, Joey

In addition to all of the other good observations, I think an honorable mention of Shane Van Boening is in good taste for the following reason.

Shane knows the practicing and competitive work ethic of the Filipino players as does most of the rest of the world. It is my belief that Shane has taken notice of the hard practice and action matches which is utilized by most of the top Filipino players and has made these routines his own.

When more American players finally realize that Shane's work ethic is what makes him GREAT, we will have even more competition for the rest of the world including the Filipinos.

Recently, Shane was in the Philippines and was even beating BATA for the cash, playing one pocket. I will still stake Efren in every mini tournament that I attend.

The Filipinos may not be as omnipresent as they have been in the past but even now, one could never conclude that they are "losing it".

Maybe some of our American players will take a clue from Shane. It's not easy practicing 10-12 hours per day but being a champion isn't easy either.

I think you're third paragraph says it all regarding American players.

 

[Shazar]

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed a dearth of Pinoys in the 2012 top 10 AZB Money Leader Board? This would have been almost inconceivable a couple of years back but it seems the Pinoys haven't been winning the big tournaments lately...have we seen the end of Filipino Pool dominance? And what could have been the factors that led to it?

Their secret lies in the Lumpia


Get some today , and watch your game improve

 

[darren_simion]

Their secret lies in the Lumpia


Get some today , and watch your game improve

Lumpia to improve your game and pancit to keep you playing longer.

 

[gopi-1]

Lumpia to improve your game and pancit to keep you playing longer.

It's balut!

 

[chambalero]

and ice cold san miguel pale pilsen