Fixing the For Sale forum. Actual solutions with links to mods and plugins.

Bishop

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes, its been beaten to death but one of the main issues is that very few have offered actual applicable solutions to fixing the issue. No shortage of complaints and suggestions, some good some bad.

Here are some actual plugins and mods that I think will restore the For Sale forum close enough to its previous state while making sensible corrections that address the original concerns that led to all the changes.

Plus a few of my suggestions that are easily implemented.

Some of these will likely require a vbulletin upgrade but that shouldn't be a big issue.

1. Bump Prevent - The BumpPrevent Plugin allows bumping of a thread only by the Creator of the Thread after a specified Time elapsed.

http://vb-plugins.com/bump-prevent.html

This solves the issue of everyone's comments bumping a thread and gives the OP the ability to bump the thread but only after a specified time period. Such as 24 or 48 hours.

2. Pay to Post - With the Pay2Post Plugin you can setup paid forum section and members need to pay to activate their Thread. This can be useful for a Classified Ads or Advertising section on your forum.

http://vb-plugins.com/pay2post.html

A premium sub section for dealers, heavy flippers, cue makers and online storefronts.

It has been discussed that dealers and heavy sellers be permitted to sell in their own dedicated forum. This allows for a charge to use that sub forum. The advantage to the dealer is that there would be less traffic with more exposure. There could be a number of additional benefits added to this like dedicated library or even a dedicated Sub forum store front. Which I think is much needed here.

3. Mark as Sold- This modification will allow you & your members (based on usergroup permissions) to mark a thread as "Sold". It will add the prefix "SOLD" to the thread title, and if set in the admincp - it will also close the thread.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=271747

Here's my outline that I believe will work. Not an end all be all. I'm certain that some changes along the way will be needed but this will go a long way in restoring the market here.

1. Cue flippers, cue sellers, dealers and cue makers should be afforded their own subsection to advertise independently from the For Sale Forum.

IE - for 200 bucks a year or a pay per thread mod you'll have your own subsection to post your items for sale, share your current work and post to your own gallery. This could be customized in many different ways. These "pay for" subforums have been successful on many other forums. Your own little retail/advert area.

In the For Sale forum -

2. Install a mod that allows posts but prohibits the posts from bumping the thread.

3. Install the bump prevent feature and set it for every 48 hours. Allowing the user to bump the thread after the set time and partner this with the Mark as Sold mod which will close the thread.

4. Add moderators. There should be no less than 5 active mods for this section.

These few changes will control the bumping without stifling the conversation. The subforums open up a stream of revenue and allow those who want to pay a place to showcase their work or create threads in bulk.
 

9Ballr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Install the bump prevent feature and set it for every 48 hours."

I like that.
I've gotten several things this because of bumps and I had missed them as they went down the line.
It's the people who are bumping every hour that should be banned or, as you said, allowed only to be bumped every other day.

Excellent ideas there.

You get my vote.
 
Last edited:

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The hard cold facts are that it's easy to come up with ideas, suggestions and changes when it's not your organization or checkbook that's involved. Things evolve......that's how AZ got started.......and it will gradually change as it does with every website.....in the meantime, Azers..... all of us........should just appreciate that AZ even exists at all.

This isn't a rap on the OP's knuckles......he had some thoughts that have some merit as had pretty much everyone else that's already posted about what's not right with the new Forum style and how it could be improved. I'm sure this has not gone unnoticed by the Forum owner(s) and things will "evolve" as time and money permits........in the meantime, it is what it is.

Matt B.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Gold Member
Silver Member
The hard cold facts are that it's easy to come up with ideas, suggestions and changes when it's not your organization or checkbook that's involved. Things evolve......that's how AZ got started.......and it will gradually change as it does with every website.....in the meantime, Azers..... all of us........should just appreciate that AZ even exists at all.

This isn't a rap on the OP's knuckles......he had some thoughts that have some merit as had pretty much everyone else that's already posted about what's not right with the new Forum style and how it could be improved. I'm sure this has not gone unnoticed by the Forum owner(s) and things will "evolve" as time and money permits........in the meantime, it is what it is.

Matt B.

The OP comes on here with suggestions AND links for a fix, all you do is give him crap about it....nice, way to go.
Without suggestions, nothing will change - thanks Matt B for not helping the situation
Jason
 

azhousepro

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
I am "off the grid" for a day or so, but I have subscribed to this thread and will get back to this as soon as I am back.

Mike
 

Bishop

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The hard cold facts are that it's easy to come up with ideas, suggestions and changes when it's not your organization or checkbook that's involved. Things evolve......that's how AZ got started.......and it will gradually change as it does with every website.....in the meantime, Azers..... all of us........should just appreciate that AZ even exists at all.

This isn't a rap on the OP's knuckles......he had some thoughts that have some merit as had pretty much everyone else that's already posted about what's not right with the new Forum style and how it could be improved. I'm sure this has not gone unnoticed by the Forum owner(s) and things will "evolve" as time and money permits........in the meantime, it is what it is.

Matt B.
I'm happy to put my money where my mouth is.

If they decided to offer sub-forum store fronts I'll be first in line to buy one.

If they decided to offer a premium for sale forum with benefits I'll use it.

I fully plan to renew my Gold Membership next month.

If a donation of money or time is required to help make the necessary changes to improve the market here I will offer both.

If the available plugins or mods aren't compatible I'm happy to donate funds to have custom plugins made. There are all kinds of vbulletin writers who work on commission.

I am "off the grid" for a day or so, but I have subscribed to this thread and will get back to this as soon as I am back.

Mike
Thanks for you consideration Mike.

If you're warm to my ideas please PM me. Some of the storefront concepts I've thought of go way deeper than what I wanted to discuss in this thread. There are other forums which have utilized storefront subforums I can link you to.
 

Type79

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I read, and have read, all of these posts that contain suggestions to improve the Wanted/For Sale Section.

IMO, the only thing that is broken is that the Wanted/For Sale Section was divided into three sub-groups.

I would prefer going back to one section. The forum search function then is more easily used to search for what you want.

I just checked and there are four pages of posts in the this section for the last 24 hours.

It has been said before but I don't see the value of reading member responses that add nothing to the original ad. Nice cue, Great seller, hits a ton, Loved my ____ cue, etc. are meaningless.
 
Last edited:

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the problem with it, is that we had too many suggestions and now we have this screwed up for sale section that hardly anyone goes to. :rolleyes:

I know I don't, and I used to "live" there.

Ken
 

Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the problem with it, is that we had too many suggestions and now we have this screwed up for sale section that hardly anyone goes to. :rolleyes:

I know I don't, and I used to "live" there.

Ken

The problem wasn't so much as a problem as was it a lack of enforcement of rules. Had the people who created the rules been able to understand that people don't care what rules you make until they are enforced. Then there would of never been a changed made in the first place. I can't believe how many people continue to blame other people and not the mods is beyond me. Institute just that bumping plugin and you can return everything back to normal with the one active mod now.
 

Type79

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The problem wasn't so much as a problem as was it a lack of enforcement of rules. Had the people who created the rules been able to understand that people don't care what rules you make until they are enforced. Then there would of never been a changed made in the first place. I can't believe how many people continue to blame other people and not the mods is beyond me. Institute just that bumping plugin and you can return everything back to normal with the one active mod now.

Enforcement of the rules by mods would have had the same effect as what we have today because the people who left for Facebook find enjoyment in bantering back and forth in public rather than through PM. They want to have a social setting to comment and have a public dialog.

Many of these people buy/sell/ and trade cues which I assume they just want to try-out and then sell and move to the next cue. It's not something I do since I buy with the intention of keeping it.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The biggest problem is overpricing. Figure out a way to fix that and you will have my vote.
 

Hits 'em Hard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Enforcement of the rules by mods would have had the same effect as what we have today because the people who left for Facebook find enjoyment in bantering back and forth in public rather than through PM. They want to have a social setting to comment and have a public dialog.

Many of these people buy/sell/ and trade cues which I assume they just want to try-out and then sell and move to the next cue. It's not something I do since I buy with the intention of keeping it.

And that wasn't the problem. The problem was over bumping that wasn't proper communication. Some people just couldn't let others have the light, so anytime their posting hit page 2 magically someone else was bumping it to page 1. But rather than actually addressing that problem, others got caught in the cross fire. Again, the mods created a problem and did nothing to stop it. So rather than attempting to fix it, they blamed us users for not being able to police ourselves, laughable at best. Then again because the mods had decided without support from the forum, they instituted another for the worse change.

Nothing the mods did helped solve the problem, and actually made it worse. That's why people went to Facebook for selling cues. If the mods would have been able to, from the start, actually enforce the rules they made. They would of seen who the problem people are and banned them. Leaving everything alone and people still available to ask questions. Instead a few people were such vagrant assholes that the too few mods punished everyone. No one likes being punished unfairly. Even worse, some people cannot ask for help no matter how much they need it.
 

Bishop

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Enforcement of the rules by mods would have had the same effect as what we have today because the people who left for Facebook find enjoyment in bantering back and forth in public rather than through PM. They want to have a social setting to comment and have a public dialog.

Many of these people buy/sell/ and trade cues which I assume they just want to try-out and then sell and move to the next cue. It's not something I do since I buy with the intention of keeping it.
My suggestions restores that but without the troublesome and excessive bumping of the threads.

There's plenty of examples of threads where the discussion was informative, on point and of real value and there was certainly no shortage of meaningless posts designed to bump the thread for a buddy or friend.

I'm one who believes that stifling the ability to go back and forth, whether of value or not, was important to the spirit of the billiard industry and forums as a whole. People want to talk, comment and share opinions.

I think its important to restore that without coming at the expense of everyone else who has a for sale thread.

I truly believe that even with Facebook groups peaking right now AZB still has a profound impact on the state of the market. Some responsibility should come with that and that's why so many care about getting things back to the way they used to be...but improved.
 

Type79

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The biggest problem is overpricing. Figure out a way to fix that and you will have my vote.

I used to be of this opinion as well but am now of a different mind.

Certainly some cues are clearly overpriced, but for one thing, the market is saturated by new and used product so unless something underpriced or you are selling something someone is waiting-for a sale is not likely to be immediate.

Then there are cues in the $1,500 and up price range. These take some time in the market even when priced correctly. Just because something doesn't sell in 30 days doesn't automatically mean it is overpriced, it might just be an indication that a likely buyer has not found it or doesn't have the ready funds at the moment.

Then there are the customs that are being resold. Not everyone wants a cue made for someone else. It is not going to be to the everyone's specifications, so that cue no matter the price will wait for the right buyer.

You can discount every cue by 50% and that doesn't mean that everything will sell.
 

rossaroni

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Rule #1. Be considerate of others and their items for sale.

It seemed like there was less bumping of threads when there was no rule about it. Of course, there are always exceptions, but it seems like things went a lot smoother a few years ago.(however, there seemed to be less forum police and wanna-be dealers back then also)
 

Bishop

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I used to be of this opinion as well but am now of a different mind.

Certainly some cues are clearly overpriced, but for one thing, the market is saturated by new and used product so unless something underpriced or you are selling something someone is waiting-for a sale is not likely to be immediate.

Then there are cues in the $1,500 and up price range. These take some time in the market even when priced correctly. Just because something doesn't sell in 30 days doesn't automatically mean it is overpriced, it might just be an indication that a likely buyer has not found it or doesn't have the ready funds at the moment.

Then there are the customs that are being resold. Not everyone wants a cue made for someone else. It is not going to be to the everyone's specifications, so that cue no matter the price will wait for the right buyer.

You can discount every cue by 50% and that doesn't mean that everything will sell.
To expand, this is why I think cue makers, dealers, flippers etc would benefit from their own sub forum.

IE

Jim Baxter's Forum

A place where Jim can post progress of cues under construction, showcase his work, discuss woods, challenges and the benefits of the way he does things. This builds value and having an avenue like this is a great supplement to an obscure blog or low traveled website. Exposure and a voice to go with it is a great selling tool. Lots of up and coming cue makers here and lot of us don't feel comfortable posting in the main cue makers forum.

Not every cue maker is savvy enough to build and optimize an expensive website but I can think of quite a few cue makers who create great threads and bring interesting insights that could be shared via their own sub-forum.

I'd pay a few hundred a year for that platform. Much cheaper than a website and you could actually use the subforum to backlink your own site. Another built in value.
 

Type79

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Facebook

Rather than try to analyze or suggest the reason(s) why some people went to Facebook, I will simply offer my opinion that I think it would have happened anyway.

What I find interesting is that there are so many billiards pages on Facebook. Maybe everyone wants their own buy/sell/trade page. I would imagine is might be tedious for sellers who have to post the same ads across a dozen (or more?) FB pages.

Clearly there are some people disenchanted with AZ for several reasons and have said so publicly and have created either their own Facebook pages or other forums.
 

2strong4u

Banned
There are no buyers here anymore.

Most items are very overpriced. If you want to sell then you have to price drop until sold.
 

Bishop

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Rather than try to analyze or suggest the reason(s) why some people went to Facebook, I will simply offer my opinion that I think it would have happened anyway.
I guess my response to this would be "so what".

Does that mean the leading forum in the industry should ride the fad out, rest on their laurels or look for ways to improve traffic and return users.

The logical response from a business perspective would be the latter.

I agree with you to a certain point. Yes, some would have migrated anyway but I think a lot have migrated because its the lessor of two evils and that's where the action is.

I believe a lot of people prefer the forum format to Facebooks. Especially since Facebook isn't set up with any kind of trader rating etc.

Bottom line is if AZB can make solid improvements that are for the benefit of the users, slowly but surely, the ones who migrated away will return.

AZ could use a dose of positive progress.
 

Type79

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
To expand, this is why I think cue makers, dealers, flippers etc would benefit from their own sub forum.

IE

Jim Baxter's Forum

A place where Jim can post progress of cues under construction, showcase his work, discuss woods, challenges and the benefits of the way he does things. This builds value and having an avenue like this is a great supplement to an obscure blog or low traveled website. Exposure and a voice to go with it is a great selling tool. Lots of up and coming cue makers here and lot of us don't feel comfortable posting in the main cue makers forum.

Not every cue maker is savvy enough to build and optimize an expensive website but I can think of quite a few cue makers who create great threads and bring interesting insights that could be shared via their own sub-forum.

I'd pay a few hundred a year for that platform. Much cheaper than a website and you could actually use the subforum to backlink your own site. Another built in value.

That is a suggestion worthy of consideration but in practical terms, if a cuemaker can not afford a website or have their own time to maintain one, a Facebook page is the easiest solution.

Another tricky question would be defining a cuemaker and the eligibility for their own sub-forum.
 
Top