focusing on the object ball during follow through

[Island Drive]

Watch the Ball

If you look at the object ball last you get immediate feedback on your preshot preparation (Nick Varner was taught too always look at object ball last). As conditons change, humidity is a big one ..........especially if you find yourself getting into the quarterfinals of a major tournament, you see 'change', almost immediately and you're able to adjust without thinking its something YOU are doing improperly, your eyes supply you the answer. There always is a reason why one misses.

 

[pooltchr]

Jeff,
Be careful about doing warm up strokes while looking at the target. I've seen a lot of players give up ball in hand because they touched the cue ball doing this. If you are doing warm-ups, it's usually best to keep your eye on the thing that is moving...the tip, to prevent those little "accidents". If you gotta look up to check your alignment, stop moving the cue while you do so.
Steve

 

[pete lafond]

I agree with Colin. I think the mantra of looking at the OB when you shoot is completely overrated. Sure it may work for some people, but not all people. It's personal preference.

Once you line up the shot in your practice swings, how can looking at the OB really help you when you deliver your stroke? Theoretically, if you're in good stroke, you can just close your eyes and execute the shot perfectly, assuming your original aim was dead on. By looking at the OB last, you're more likely to second guess your original aim. Sometimes this can result in a crooked stroke.

I never liked the analogy of a baseball player not looking at the ball while throwing but looking at the place he's throwing. A better analogy is putting in golf, which places the importance on trusting your original aim line and trusting your stroke. No professional golfer looks at the cup while putting. They always look at the golf ball.

I'm not totally promoting looking at the CB last either. I just disagree with the saying that looking at the OB last is the best and only way it should be done.

I believe everyone does look at the CB at some time in their stroke with the difference being that those that play often "trust" were they are making contact with the tip to CB.

Here is the difference;

In golf the terrain, fairways and greens, dictate how the ball will roll and bounce as it bobbles and it is never straight. When golfing we create a mental image of the balls flight and roll. The trust becomes in our contact not the swing (beginners think it is the swing and we do this because they can not manipulate contact yet). The object is the golf ball.

In pool, the players stroke dictates the roll of the ball, squirt, curve, .. considered. The table does not have the same terrain as in golf and the CB's roll is directly influenced by the player. In pool it is the OB that is the golf ball and the CB is part of the player, just like the stick is. Why not just look at your stick last. The contact point in pool is not the tip to the CB but the CB to the OB. The object is the OB.

Getting players to focus and to trust their stroke is great for help them develop a good stroke. Getting a player to manipulate the CB to arrive at the OB's point of contact is an advancement.

Now wouldn't you play a game of straight pool against someone you could put a back drop between the CB and object ball after they are aligned so they can no longer see the OB, for $1000. I'd like to see them run 100 balls in 14.1.

 

[pete lafond]

I don't know what the right answer is or if there is a right answer. I've gone through phases using both methods at one time or another. I currently look at the cue ball last and find this discussion of particular interest because it's not the method most often taught. One comment I do have is that if you are going to use an analogy that it's more appropriate to use an analogy where you are striking an object (i.e., golf, hitting a baseball, tennis) and not throwing a baseball / football / dart / etc. In the examples listed the object that is being struck is what you focus on at the time of impact!

I believe players that say the look at the CB last in reality are saying that they do a quick check on the CB just before they pull the trigger, but their eyes shift quickly back to the OB.

Bottom line if you are a player, you know what your stroke is going to do period.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I believe players that say the look at the CB last in reality are saying that they do a quick check on the CB just before they pull the trigger, but their eyes shift quickly back to the OB.

Bottom line if you are a player, you know what your stroke is going to do period.

Hi Pete,
I can completely avoid all vision of the OB ball for 10 seconds plus after I've made my alignment and set my bridge firmly.

I glance at the OB only for determining the positional angle rebound after that while I determine exact point of hit and feel for speed on the CB.

As I pay very exacting attention to my alignment before setting my bridge hand I have no further use for referencing the OB for alignment purposes.

After I hit I watch the CB hit the OB to get feedback from the shot.

I'd take your curtain challenge, except that it is a useful reference to see the OB to assertain the appropriate position line after contact.

I know this won't work for most players as they align approximately and need to reference the OB during the stroke to make minor adjustments.

I can play either way but I am becoming more consistant with looking at the CB now as I'm increasing my accuracy of pre-alignment and increasing my knowledge of squirt and throw effect such that they are pre-calculated rather than felt.

Being able to focus on the CB will allow me to begin to measure and systemize CB control better than I could if I wasn't watching where I was hitting.

It's an alternative system, but has potential benefits IMHO

 

[scottycoyote]

well there are a couple different ways to do it. I never realised how importan eye movement was until i went to pool school, they video'd our eye movements as we shot and then they taught us the different methods they thought worked best.
Ive found what works best for me is........i look at where i want to hit the object ball as i slide down into my stance.......then i glance at the cb with my tip lined up almost touching it. Then i take a few practice strokes looking only at the cueball, making sure im hitting it where i want and feeling grooved.....then as i do my final pullback stroke.....i stop and look up and lock in on the ob and shoot. All i can say is getting a set routine as far as eye movements go has been a big part of my improvement. I never even realised it mattered.

 

[mnorwood]

I read in a book, but I am not sure which one: the ideal situation is to look at all three targets at the same time. However, the author noted that it is not possible for most people.

For readers who think this idea is stupid please fire away.

 

[Colin Colenso]

This is my crazy way of thinking of this....

When you shoot a gun your aiming at a target. The bullet is inside the barrell of you gun. You aim at the target and fire the bullet at the target.

When shooting pool, the cue is the gun and the CB is the bullett... The only difference is that the bullett (CB) is not inside the barrell of the cue, it is just resting on the firing line.

Once your aligned or "aimed" through the CB to the OB......IF your mechanics are solid. you can forget about the CB and simply shoot at the target with the tip of your cue.....

Actually...once your aligned...you can actually close your eyes and shoot and if your mechanics are good, you still make the shot.

I know...crazy stupid...

If you could, wouldn't you set that gun into a frame, adjust it precisely, then press a button to fire it? No second guessing, no movements or adjusments after alignment...like they do with cannons?

 

[Colin Colenso]

I read in a book, but I am not sure which one: the ideal situation is to look at all three targets at the same time. However, the author noted that it is not possible for most people.

For readers who think this idea is stupid please fire away.

When aligning the shot, this is definitely a major part of getting onto the right line.

Actually there are 5 points I pay attention to. Not all in focus. These are:
1. Bridge V
2. Cue (including tip aligned to center of CB)
3. CB
4. OB
5. Pocket

Amongst this visualization is the hint of 2 lines. One through no's 1,2 and 3 and another from OB to pocket.

Once the bridge hand and cue is pretty well in place I focus on the OB to pocket and sense if any minor adjustment is required. On long shots this part is much harder.

Our eyes are our connection to the situation at the table. Best to use them as much as possible.

 

[pete lafond]

Hi Pete,
I can completely avoid all vision of the OB ball for 10 seconds plus after I've made my alignment and set my bridge firmly.

I glance at the OB only for determining the positional angle rebound after that while I determine exact point of hit and feel for speed on the CB.

As I pay very exacting attention to my alignment before setting my bridge hand I have no further use for referencing the OB for alignment purposes.

After I hit I watch the CB hit the OB to get feedback from the shot.

I'd take your curtain challenge, except that it is a useful reference to see the OB to assertain the appropriate position line after contact.

I know this won't work for most players as they align approximately and need to reference the OB during the stroke to make minor adjustments.

I can play either way but I am becoming more consistant with looking at the CB now as I'm increasing my accuracy of pre-alignment and increasing my knowledge of squirt and throw effect such that they are pre-calculated rather than felt.

Being able to focus on the CB will allow me to begin to measure and systemize CB control better than I could if I wasn't watching where I was hitting.

It's an alternative system, but has potential benefits IMHO

The problem I see is that the CB is part of the player as it were your hands or arms or better yet your fingers. This is were feel comes in.

1. You have 2.8" room on a long shot to the pocket because of an obstructing ball midway.
2. You have a 5 foot CB swerve in order to make the correct contact with the OB because of obstructions.

In each of these cases, there is no room for error. Case 1. the OB can not deviate off line. Case 2. is a pure feel of the CB, you control its movement through your stroke (it is through the stroke and CB contact that accuracy is gained - which is one and not independent parts.)

My point has been that the stroke, contact tip to CB and movement of the CB is one unit. (be the ball kind of thing)

I agree that I can also trust my stroke and make the OB without looking at it. On the other hand I will loose the advanced part of my game which is the ability to finesse the CB. I just can not buy this one.

As I said not looking at the OB is great for beginners to learn to trust their stroke, but once they trust it the real part of the advanced game is ahead of the CB. Everything from the player and including the CB is the whole player, all that is after the CB are the objectives.

 

[pete lafond]

One other note.

You have a pen and paper. There are two points that are 7 inches apart. Your job is to connect the points in the straightest line possible with the least deviations.

The best method is to place your pencil on the first dot and to shift your eyes to the second one keeping the focus there. Next you draw the line without changing your focus on the destination dot..

In pool the second dot is the OB's point because you believe that everything else just works properly. You trust everything else because you are a fine tuned player.

 

[Cornerman]

I read in a book, but I am not sure which one: the ideal situation is to look at all three targets at the same time. However, the author noted that it is not possible for most people.

For readers who think this idea is stupid please fire away.

I don't think it's out of the question. It also lends some insight as to why people hate shooting the "blind back cut," the cut where the pocket is not in the line of sight.

Fred <~~~ and why ball relation systems might help on these shots

 

[pete lafond]

I don't think it's out of the question. It also lends some insight as to why people hate shooting the "blind back cut," the cut where the pocket is not in the line of sight.

Fred <~~~ and why ball relation systems might help on these shots

But the experienced player just knows the cut and sees the pocket mentally (fills it in mentally). He can look and focus on the absolute spot of the OB and see the line to the pockets center, then strokes through to that very spot on the OB.

 

[scottycoyote]

im no pro but i dont look at the pocket at all once ive gotten my aiming point on the ob, from there i strictly look at it and the cb, unless its a straight in and the pocket just happens to be in my field of vision. I think tryin to look at all 3 is just too much, or it is for me at least

 

[pete lafond]

im no pro but i dont look at the pocket at all once ive gotten my aiming point on the ob, from there i strictly look at it and the cb, unless its a straight in and the pocket just happens to be in my field of vision. I think tryin to look at all 3 is just too much, or it is for me at least

That is why the point of OB contact makes the most sense, at least to me. It is the common object, to getting the CB there and to making the ball to the pocket.

 

[BRKNRUN]

If you could, wouldn't you set that gun into a frame, adjust it precisely, then press a button to fire it? No second guessing, no movements or adjusments after alignment...like they do with cannons?

Sure....In pool you are that frame and you have control over the adustments.....

In pool the CB is a "external" bullet....The cue is the gun and the tip of the cue is the trip hammer......

 

[Cameron Smith]

It has been interesting reading the discussion.

It seems to me that it does not neccessarily matter what you look at during the follow through. When we are in our stance making our practice strokes we are already aligned and aimed. So the idea of looking at the object ball for the purpose aiming does not hold any water, unless you make the mistake of pivoting around the cueball to adjust your aim (I hope nobody here does that). Another thing I see some people are missing is that the cueball IS the immediate target. There are so many articles on accurate cueing but at the end of alot of these articles the author states that you should look at the object ball. Try learning to play tennis or golf without looking at the ball. We are trying to accurately hit the cueball to create a chain of events (cueball comes off the tip, hits the objectball, objectball goes in pocket).

That being said it does not neccessarily mean that we have to look at the cue ball. Although the strength of looking at the cueball is that you can be sure of what you are hitting, there seems to be certain mental drawbacks. As someone stated earlier looking at the object ball causes some people (me) to jump up, move my head or cue or whatever i can move in a nervous motion. Furthermore It can also make people focus too much on their stroke. Max Eberle writes an interesting article here on AZB the gives an analogy of the stroke to threading the needle (for anyone who hasn't read it I highly recommend it). Many people can do straight and fluid strokes and then figuratively collapse on their final delivery. Conversely you can hold a thread perfectly still until you get close to the eye of the needle and your hand begins to shake. In other words you try too hard. By not looking at the object ball you tend to trust your muscle memory.

From what I have read there seem to be benefits to both, but Im still working on which is better.

P.S. Luther "Wimpy" Lassiter wrote in his book billiards for everyone that it did not seem to matter citing that Willie Hoppe looked at the cueball last. But Lassiter did also say that he looked at the object ball.

Regards

 

[Cornerman]

So the idea of looking at the object ball for the purpose aiming does not hold any water,

??? I see at least four posts that give a good explanation why looking at the object ball (last) is beneficial. Yes for aiming.

Fred

 

[randyg]

??? I see at least four posts that give a good explanation why looking at the object ball (last) is beneficial. Yes for aiming.

Fred

The best reason is the Mental Relaxation that can be achieved by focusing on the object ball last....randyg

 

[Flex]

On some shots I do one, on other shots I do the other. Why? That's a good question.

I've found that since I started incorporating back hand english into my arsenal, that the most important part of the aiming process lies in getting the alignment right on for a true center ball hit. For that I've some different techniques when looking at the object ball that I can't really explain. It could be that my eyes, (which don't really see what exactly is center ball anyway, I've had them tested, I have astigmatism in both eyes, and have a strong prescription, yada yada,) are off enough that if I were to come down to a perfect explanation of what I actually see wouldn't be of benefit to anybody but me. In any case, I KNOW where that point on the object ball is depending on angle and so on, for a true center ball hit. Once I get that point fixed in my mind's eye, I'll angle my head and torso while upright to as close as possible to the way it will be when I'm down on the shot. My stick is over the cue ball, with the perfect alignment for a true center ball hit and pocket of the object ball. Before I get down, I calculate the distance from cue ball to object ball, and have memorized the actual pivot point on my cue for the shot I've decided to shoot, including speed of shot, any english if any that will be applied and so on, to make sure I pot the ball and move the cue ball to where I want it to go. (Whew, not over yet!) All this takes place pretty quickly, by the way. When I get down on the shot, my cue still aligned for a true center ball hit, I'll make sure my stance is solid, I'll stroke practice strokes for the pure center ball hit until I know I'm stroking perfectly, and then I'll either shoot center ball, or with BHE, or whatever I'm planning to do. By golly this works. If I deliver a pure, perfect straight stroke with BHE, thar she goes! If however my stroke is straight but I hit the cue ball slightly off center, guess what? Because the pivot point is correct for that shot, the object ball usually goes anyway, even if shape isn't what I'd hoped for.

Pretty complicated, I agree. But it's rapidly becoming systemetized for those tougher shots that require more care. If it's a simpler shot, I'll still do all this probably, but may vary it if I want to use parallel english, for instance.

Trying to commit all this to paper isn't easy, but that's what I've started doing and my consistency is rising.

I hope this is of some assistance. It's working for me.

Flex