Luck or no luck, they go where you hit them. If a guy has been getting lucky for 30 straight years maybe its time to concede that he is doing something differently than most players that earns him the right to get the good rolls.
For Jay and Cuetechasaurus
- Thread starter Grady
- Start date
Reading these posts makes me laugh. I got a great idea for all you guys who are complaining about how lucky Efren is. Just challenge him to a call every shot match, without his luck you guys are stealing. Give me a break!!! You are right about him being lucky in one respect, he is lucky that all the pool tournaments don't bar him for playing to good! If Efren misses a ball and leaves a guy 8 feet way and the cueball frozen to the rail, his opponent misses the shot and complains about how lucky Efren was to leave him on the rail, where as if the roles were reversed Efren fires the ball in from off the rail and the guy complains how he couldn't get a break and hook efren instead he left him a makeable shot from the rail. It is good for everybodies EGOS to say Efren is the luckiest player. The fact is that Efren is the best player and when people play him they tighten up and most of the time are looking for an excuse to lose. The differenece is Efren capitalizes to the fullest on any openings and doesn't worry about the rolls. The truth of the matter is, the only chance anybody has to beat him is to get the majority of the rolls. If the rolls are even he wins because he is the best. It is like Tiger, if everybody plays there absolute best and the rolls are equal, Tiger wins period. Here is a list of some of the luckiest people ever: Michael Jordan, Babe Ruth, Pete Sampras, Tiger Woods, Edwin Moses, Willie Mosconi, Jerry Rice and Joe Montana( 2 lucky stiffs)
thebighurt said:
I don't think anyone doesn't think Efren is a superstar player and most would concede he is the best in the world. That being said he may be the luckiest player in the world besides being the best. I am sure Strickland will never forget the kick Efren made to win their hill-hill match. Was Efren lucky? Absolutely! Lucky to hit it? No. Lucky to make it. Absolutely! I believe this is an example of the point people are making. I have observed this personally on a number of occasions. Some people are luckier than others. I have never observed this in any of the other superstars you named. I have seen it often with card players where luck plays a very big role, some of the best card players in the world have an unusual amount of luck.
Wayne
You just made my point for me exactly. You left out the part that efren played a dead nut safe on Strickland that would of won Efren the tournament but the 5 ball hit the 8 ball in and Efren was hooked instead. The 8 ball getting knocked in was a horrible roll but everyone leaves that out and focuses on Efren kicking the ball in. Just so you know there was luck in him making it but for you to say he was lucky to hit it you are sadly mistaken. If you wanted to bet him even money on him hitting it he would bust you. He is by far the best 3 cushion POOL PLAYER. My point is what distorts everybodies view on the subject is the rolls even out. What happens is when some of the top pros get the rolls they still don't win so there is no reason to mention how lucky they got and the luck they had does not stand out to you because they lost. When Efren is getting lucky he always capitalizes on it and wins so it lucks to everybody how lucky he is.
wayne said:
I am surprised at your answer, since I believe you to be a pretty good player. Are you saying that when I make a 3 rail kick that it is luck to make it? How about just a 1 rail kick? Now how about when the ball is just hanging? That's lucky? No, it's lucky (heavy sarcasm) that we know how to kick on the first rail. Whether it is a system or intuition, we know what a given bank with the cueball will produce. Move the object ball up the rail, and you adjust your spot on the 1st rail.
Now, I saw Efren go to the end of the table and look at the spot on the rail he would need to get to, to make the shot. Right then, he was probably calculating where he would need to hit on the first rail. Just because people don't know the Z bank or kick, doesn't mean there isn't a formula to calculate it. I was doing them last night in practice, putting a cube of chalk on the end rail and Z kicking it.
I also put chalk randomly on the table and did 1-4 rail kicks from random spots on the table, wherever the cueball landed. I do this for practice so I don't have to put in dollars for balls, lol. Do I make them every time? No, but I almost always do hit the chalk (or balls).
Like everything, it just takes practice to hone, and figure out how a table is running. With knowledge and practice, your odds and percentages of actually making a ball go up drastically. So how much 'luck' was really involved in that shot? I have seen Efren go 3 rails and feed through a tight path between 2 balls off the 3rd rail, because of his knowledge of the rails.
Luck? I am sure all his years of 3C and rotation with all 15 balls gave him a pretty good idea of where his ball was going; he wasn't just closing his eyes and hoping. The miracle of it was that he could shake off the 'unlucky' roll he got by making the other ball, instead of locking Earl up.
Also, that the pressure of the moment didn't mess up his thinking!
Sure, I guess there is always luck involved - even making a straight-in shot, lol. Or a straight-in bank shot. But the more knowlegeable you are, the more opportunities for success open up, and the more authority you can hit the shot with.
I'm just making an observation that he was prepared with the knowledge of what he needed to do - plus speed and english.
thebighurt said:
If you read what I said again you will see that I said that no he wasn't lucky to hit it but that he was lucky to make it. If he was to shoot this type of shot 100 times he would probably make the hit 95% of the time but would probably not make the ball more that 5%-10% of the time.
Wayne
rackmsuckr said:
I am sure if you asked Efren he would say he got very lucky to make that ball.
(Of course he always says he got lucky.) If you set up that shot and told him you were willing to bet a thousand dollars to his one hundred he couldn't make it I GUARANTEE you he would not take the bet. As good as Efren is and as good as he kicks, that was a miracle shot. Why did Earl get so excited when he saw where Efren left himself? The odds of Earl winning from that position are huge. Efren made one of his greatest kicks ever, there was a ton of skill involved but it was no hanger. (Maybe we have different definitions of lucky.)
There was a one-pocket tournament a couple of years ago when it looked like I would have to face Efren in the quarter-finals but Morro beat him and then I beat Morro. I got lucky!
Two consecutive one pocket tournaments last year I drew Efren as my opening match. I got unlucky!
LOL
Wayne
One reason Efren is "lucky"
One reason Efren is far luckier than the average pro player on the shots where he really has to reach down deep is that he plays them probably at least ten times more often. Over and over when almost any other player would be going for a safety Efren is going for the win with a harder shot. Ten times the practice trying the low percentage shots under tournament pressure will make a person much "luckier" when trying the shot than people who rarely if ever try the same type of shot.
Hu
One reason Efren is far luckier than the average pro player on the shots where he really has to reach down deep is that he plays them probably at least ten times more often. Over and over when almost any other player would be going for a safety Efren is going for the win with a harder shot. Ten times the practice trying the low percentage shots under tournament pressure will make a person much "luckier" when trying the shot than people who rarely if ever try the same type of shot.
Hu
wayne said:
I was talking to Jose a couple of days ago. He casually expressed that Efren is playing better than him. Jose has always been a great player and warrior. And Efren has always given him that respect. And Vice Versa.
What makes me sad most of all is why you, Grady, and Billy cant bury your differences. The both of you made such a great team once. You both have the resume that most pros would dream of. When I saw you both play in a match game at the recent Derby I just had to walk out of the room seeing how personal the match was. Maybe Freddie can broker a truce. Hows about putting Billy in the One Pocket HOF next year. He certainly deserves it with his contribution to the game. It would be great if Grady handed it to him.
What makes me sad most of all is why you, Grady, and Billy cant bury your differences. The both of you made such a great team once. You both have the resume that most pros would dream of. When I saw you both play in a match game at the recent Derby I just had to walk out of the room seeing how personal the match was. Maybe Freddie can broker a truce. Hows about putting Billy in the One Pocket HOF next year. He certainly deserves it with his contribution to the game. It would be great if Grady handed it to him.
Great idea
Great idea, Billy in the HOF. I'm sure Grady would be very gracious in his capacity as a HOF presenter.
the Beard
yobagua said:
Great idea, Billy in the HOF. I'm sure Grady would be very gracious in his capacity as a HOF presenter.
the Beard
yobagua,
That was a great post! Thanks for expressing what so may wish would happen.
Part of your thread said "When I saw you both play in a match game at the recent Derby I just had to walk out of the room seeing how personal the match was. Maybe Freddie can broker a truce." Can you elaborate on this match? Was it during the tournament or was it a match up? (I hope you came back in before iy was over!) Who won? How did they act towards one another afterwards? Any info would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Terry
That was a great post! Thanks for expressing what so may wish would happen.
Part of your thread said "When I saw you both play in a match game at the recent Derby I just had to walk out of the room seeing how personal the match was. Maybe Freddie can broker a truce." Can you elaborate on this match? Was it during the tournament or was it a match up? (I hope you came back in before iy was over!) Who won? How did they act towards one another afterwards? Any info would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Terry
I believe Billy won the stakes match. It's in the threads somewhere-- possibly in the DCC forum.Terry Ardeno said:
Doc
Thanks Doc!
Terry
Terry
Thanks Terry
The match was in a side room for cash. The animosity and dislike between the two permeated through the room. It was sad IMHO. It was not a contest of skills but of egos. I think Grady got so riled up he shot at the wrong hole. I could be wrong about specifics as I couldnt take too much of it. Grady lost but I thought it was over before it finished.
I have a lot of respect for Grady and Billy. And truly believe if they can let bygones be bygones it would be great for us their fans.
The match was in a side room for cash. The animosity and dislike between the two permeated through the room. It was sad IMHO. It was not a contest of skills but of egos. I think Grady got so riled up he shot at the wrong hole. I could be wrong about specifics as I couldnt take too much of it. Grady lost but I thought it was over before it finished.
I have a lot of respect for Grady and Billy. And truly believe if they can let bygones be bygones it would be great for us their fans.