full splice vs short splice points
- Thread starter RADAR
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Is one more favorable as long as playability for 9ball? Help
I believe it's largely a matter of personal preference. You should be able to play equally as well with either. I do like the full splice hit though. Of course I like ivory ferrules also.
Fact
IT DOES NOT MATTER.......it only matters for design purposes.....if you want rings above the handle area then you either have to make it a half splice with an A joint....or you would have to CNC inlay the ring design into the cue (but you have to have CNC)
IT DOES NOT MATTER.......it only matters for design purposes.....if you want rings above the handle area then you either have to make it a half splice with an A joint....or you would have to CNC inlay the ring design into the cue (but you have to have CNC)
A Pantograph will work too.
Is one more favorable as long as playability for 9ball? Help
Fullsplice joints in the forearm with a full length handle are considered by some players to give better feedback and are considerably stronger than other types of connections. They offer a stiffness advantage as well compared to cue that has a joint in the wrap area. Some of the typical forearm connections used by cuemaker's today are stronger than others, but a full splice is a very strong joint.
The drawback is they are harder to build properly, are harder to get the weight and balance right, and are more prone to warpage through the handle area long term. They are probably the closest in terms of feel to a one piece cue (just my opinion).
Some full splice joint forearms are cut short - they only run a few inches under the wrap. This defeats any strength, stiffness or feedback advantage, but helps solve the weight and warpage problems.
The old Titlists are good examples of full splice construction with a full length handle. So are old Adam cues. Burton Spain used full splice but he cut them short for much of his career. John Davis and Joel Hercek use full splice construction techniques but cut the handles under the wrap area with an additional splice joint to help prevent warpage. Early Palmers were full splice with full length handles, either Titlist's or Palmer shop built. Some of the 3rd catalog line used full length full splice Adam blanks.
Chris
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Check out the link here where mark explain the differences: http://www.bearcues.com/fullsplicecue.htm
You can also create a long dowel on the full splice blanks and add ring work or using different woods combo to adjust weight and balance. This method of construction may provide you with the best of both world in some cases.
Regards,
Duc.
You can also create a long dowel on the full splice blanks and add ring work or using different woods combo to adjust weight and balance. This method of construction may provide you with the best of both world in some cases.
Regards,
Duc.
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Duc,
The only thing about Mark's spiel above - he is only partially correct about Burton Spain. Burton used full splice technique to make his blanks but then he cut them into shorties, about 16" long. So Balabushka cut them off even more and joined the handle with a screw joint just short of or under the wrap
That's what I think is so strange. Burton defeated the purpose of all the work he put into his splices by cutting them off. Later on, when he came back and into the business, he recognized that the "A" joint was a weakness and worked on other techniques to get rid of it.
Chris
It's interesting you would say this about making the blanks shorties.
This is from the Burton Spain Biography on Joel Hercek's page.
http://www.hercek.com/index.php?opt...icle&id=5:spainbio&catid=4:spain-bio&Itemid=6
Excerpt from the article begins here:
"Although his early blanks featured a full splice, they were not long enough to continue all the way into the butt sleeve. This was because the ebony in the points and lower piece of the blank was too heavy and too expensive. Burton solved this problem in 1992 with an ingenious full spliced blank featuring ebony points that were spliced onto maple for the handle area. For blanks with points lighter than ebony, the lower splice simply continued to the butt sleeve."
I wonder if his previous blanks that didn't use ebony points also continued to the butt sleeve?
with Burton being as intelligent as he was to have that reasoning, I'd bet its safe to say that his lighter wood blanks were longer....why wouldn't he?
You are correct. You would probably enjoy reading Spain's manuscript, "Making Blanks". I was tempted to publish it at one time with Joel's permission. Balabushka used the full 29" blank if the handle was rosewood.
Just to clarify on the paragraph you quoted, I know at the time Joel wrote that, he thought the handle splice, a "V" shape wedge Burton started using in 1992, was unique. Later on Joel learned that Palmer cues started using this same connection nearly 30 years earlier in the 1960's. Adam cues in the 1970's did the same thing, so Burton probably got the idea from Dick Helmstetter who was a friend. I am pretty sure Dick got the idea from some of the old Palmer's he had worked on, or maybe from peter Balner who ordered blanks from Adam too. The Adam splice is identical to the Palmer splice. Joel in fact uses a similar splice joint in his handle area today carrying on the tradition that Burton had revived.
Burton made full length rosewood in the early days, but everybody wanted ebony. He saw the cue makers's were cutting them off anyway, and ebony, even then, was really expensive - especially the longer pieces. So he just started making them shorter and shorter. He went to 18" then eventually 13".
Frank Paradise ordered Burton Spain blanks - he was one of his first customers. They had ebony points and Frank always cut them off right at the front of the wrap - usually to add a tenon where he would slip some pearl or other plastic decorations on - and had a really crappy butt joint and screw right there.
So that's why I was saying most of the blanks Burton made were full splice technique yes, but most were delivered as "shorties" because they would just be cut down by the cue makers anyway when a handle was joined using a relatively weak screw connection..
Chris
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You can also create a long dowel on the full splice blanks and add ring work or using different woods combo to adjust weight and balance. This method of construction may provide you with the best of both world in some cases.
Regards,
Duc.
And what happens to that full-splice reasonance ?
Joey,
I just pulled the wrap off this old ebony Palmer - and found this. you never know - some are cut off, but not this one. The handle is only 16.5 ounces with no core and a steel weight bolt.
I can't wait to get this one finished up and to hit some balls with it!
Chris
Attachments
I received an e-mail from someone concerned about what I called "weak joints".
I just want to say that I think the quality of the internal joints used today with tenons, specialty fasteners, and powerful adhesives has increased so much that the cues made today no longer have the "weak" butt joint that the old cues had. Some may in fact be just as strong as a splice. What I was referring to above is history - it all took place 30 to 40 years ago.
Chris
I just want to say that I think the quality of the internal joints used today with tenons, specialty fasteners, and powerful adhesives has increased so much that the cues made today no longer have the "weak" butt joint that the old cues had. Some may in fact be just as strong as a splice. What I was referring to above is history - it all took place 30 to 40 years ago.
Chris
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I think this is slightly backwards. Burton made full-spliced short blanks for George and otheres. George kept them as full-splices by using the full short length and splicing under the wrap with a buzz ring. In this way, he didn't end up separating the ebony into four separate pieces.
It was others who shortened up his short blanks (which again we're talking about the full-splice shorties) which when cut off too high separated the ebony prongs into four individual pieces.
For those that don't realize it, Mark Bear's write up correctly calls the inlaying of separate squares as "half splice," which is what Burton called that technique.
{edit: I'm arguing a different point altogether. I think now up rereading that you're saying that Burton defeats the purpose of having the structural cue integrity by forcing the cuemaker to make an A-joint.}
Fred
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I would think the resonance will be different from it original state but better or worse (no idea) and I would bet it depends on the diameter of the core. This method has some advantage instead of splicing a light weigh handle..the tenon on the full splice reduces the weight and allow for decorative and weight adjustment according to cue builder spec.
Duc.
Duc.