And if you also study Nuclear Science - you'll make enough money
to visit TimBuck 3.
Dale(who was too weak to resist)
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Future of cuemaking
- Thread starter Canadian cue
- Start date
And if you also study Nuclear Science - you'll make enough money
to visit TimBuck 3.
Dale(who was too weak to resist)
Dave,
Kind of a sarcastic comment. The future is what drives people on their daily tasks. Everybody has a dream and I am a firm believer that we should follow our dreams, unfortunately due to life circunstances that is not always possible.
You are one of the great cuemakers we have in this country and I am sure that you have a dream that drives the work you do, everyday...
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True.
And if you let aholes like Dave talk you out of your cuemaking dreams, you would have been not strong enough to stay at it .
CC, as Mr Dayton pointed out is in a good area . So, repairs and walk-in sales look good in his favor.
Dave started making cues b/c he fell off too many electric poles according to him.
He had to make it.:grin:
Anything worth having came at great cost. If it was easy everybody would be successful.
The first thing is to not let anything keep you from succeeding. Work hard, use your machinist skills and if you have questions ask me, Paul Dayton, Dick Neighbors or Sherm Adamson for help. There are some others on this forum who have some experience but I got the help I needed from these guys (Friends).
You will make some mistakes but you learn now NOT to do some things. With your life's experiences it should not take you long to learn how to build a great cue.
My biggest problem was the finish which is a never ending learning curve.
Work hard, do the best you can with what you have, use only the best materials and charge a fair price for you and the customer. You will meet some of the best people in the world and have a great time learning.
Good Cuemaking,
The first thing is to not let anything keep you from succeeding. Work hard, use your machinist skills and if you have questions ask me, Paul Dayton, Dick Neighbors or Sherm Adamson for help. There are some others on this forum who have some experience but I got the help I needed from these guys (Friends).
You will make some mistakes but you learn now NOT to do some things. With your life's experiences it should not take you long to learn how to build a great cue.
My biggest problem was the finish which is a never ending learning curve.
Work hard, do the best you can with what you have, use only the best materials and charge a fair price for you and the customer. You will meet some of the best people in the world and have a great time learning.
Good Cuemaking,
I don't think Dave was be overly sarcastic. His reply is from a song lyric.
I really like Rick's post as it has the optimism and game plan that you need to have to be successful. Eric's post is very realistic and true to his word. He is and could be very busy if he wanted to give the public all of his time. If you love to do something than go for it, no matter how much it takes to be succusssful. Yes there are like a million new cuemakers out there, but if your work is better than the rest you will shine in the end. If your building cues to make a profit, good luck! If you love it and its your passion, and you get a nice following of customers you can make a little cash. The assembly line production cues are the profit center of the cue industry. Their cost to build is peanuts and their profit is very high. I love cues and making cues and I live to look at the customers faces and responses when they see and play with my work. Thats very gratifing to me and keeps me striving to be the best I can be. Just my $.02 - Jon Spitz
Neither...
The band is called Timbuk 3.
I'd post a link to a YouTube video, but it's a PITA on an iPhone.
I feel embarrassed. My musical knowledge is going down the toilet. Madonna is the lead singer for Queensryche
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I am a positive, outgoing person. But i'm a realist. I keep my senses clear & my head on track as much as I possibly can. I see in this thread several enthusiastic, encouraging posts. A couple even sound almost dreamy. But being through this trade & seeing & knowing every echelon of builder, I can tell you with certainty that there is a limit & it's not sky high or dreamy.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to make a middle class income from building cues. Do the math instead of making up dreams in your mind. If you build 50 cues per year (a bunch for one guy), and charge $1000 for each cue (a milestone for most builders), then you gross $50Gs. Strip away roughly 30% in taxes and accounting costs, then deduct material costs & working stock costs (paper towels, adhesives, etc), and don't forget to pay utility bills. That $50Gs begins to look a whole lot like $20-25G's real money in your pocket. Split $20Gs into 12 months & you end up with around $1600 per month. Pay rent or mortgage on your dwelling, plus utilities, groceries, etc. You're gonna be very broke very quick. And this is the salary of an upper echelon builder who gets $1000 for every cue he builds. Sounds dreamy, huh?
The only way to avoid this is to charge more, which is not feasible without making the cue more intricate, which equates to more time to build & less cues. Or you can hire on some help & multiply your output. You then either split the dough somewhat equally with your employees & all of you live with your parents, or else you pay them chump change while you pocket the rest & possibly gross yourself $65-70Gs, which will land you at least in your own home but still very broke. Don't expect to be driving a Benz.
Point is, be realistic about it. If you can AFFORD to do it, meaning you rely on another income to live on and cues are not your sole reliance, then by all means enjoy yourself. Just be smart about it. Be real. Some guys might be satisfied with the stress of being broke all time and never having the means to live a more comfortable life. That's fine for them. But not for me. I like seeing my wife drive a nice car, and my kids have everything they need. I like having a nice home & being able to pay my bills. I like not having to stress about how i'm gonna pay for the groceries to feed my family. No way in hell would I put the responsibility of my life on the promise that people will buy expensive wooden toys. It's not realistic. It's a pipe dream. Sounds like you have a good grasp on things already. Don't sweat it. Enjoy the cues for what they are.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to make a middle class income from building cues. Do the math instead of making up dreams in your mind. If you build 50 cues per year (a bunch for one guy), and charge $1000 for each cue (a milestone for most builders), then you gross $50Gs. Strip away roughly 30% in taxes and accounting costs, then deduct material costs & working stock costs (paper towels, adhesives, etc), and don't forget to pay utility bills. That $50Gs begins to look a whole lot like $20-25G's real money in your pocket. Split $20Gs into 12 months & you end up with around $1600 per month. Pay rent or mortgage on your dwelling, plus utilities, groceries, etc. You're gonna be very broke very quick. And this is the salary of an upper echelon builder who gets $1000 for every cue he builds. Sounds dreamy, huh?
The only way to avoid this is to charge more, which is not feasible without making the cue more intricate, which equates to more time to build & less cues. Or you can hire on some help & multiply your output. You then either split the dough somewhat equally with your employees & all of you live with your parents, or else you pay them chump change while you pocket the rest & possibly gross yourself $65-70Gs, which will land you at least in your own home but still very broke. Don't expect to be driving a Benz.
Point is, be realistic about it. If you can AFFORD to do it, meaning you rely on another income to live on and cues are not your sole reliance, then by all means enjoy yourself. Just be smart about it. Be real. Some guys might be satisfied with the stress of being broke all time and never having the means to live a more comfortable life. That's fine for them. But not for me. I like seeing my wife drive a nice car, and my kids have everything they need. I like having a nice home & being able to pay my bills. I like not having to stress about how i'm gonna pay for the groceries to feed my family. No way in hell would I put the responsibility of my life on the promise that people will buy expensive wooden toys. It's not realistic. It's a pipe dream. Sounds like you have a good grasp on things already. Don't sweat it. Enjoy the cues for what they are.
I have to say you hit it right on the head as far as cost versus profit. I was a business managament/Finance major in college and I quickly realized the cost/ profit was very slim on cues. Although if you have a descent job and have time to build cues as well, the balance can be rewarding. I have changed jobs, dropped being an executive chef! I have taken a slightly lesser position nearly the same money but I will have way more time to build. The combination will allow for more income potential. Im not going to get rich, lol, but I will be much happier, far less negative, and enjoy life a little more!
Enjoy building cues, live life and keep a good balance.
I barely make enuff repairing to visit Star Buck 3 for a coffee.
Terry = Who also couldn't resist.
You seem to have a few things going your way. Some experience with building cues and repairs and also machinery. Most important location, and I don't sense a great need to make a living doing it. Remain realistic and you'll enjoy the trip. Cuemaking will get a lot worse before it gets better. The economy is in the dumps and the billiard industry is feeling the pain.
As long as local pool halls keep closing in the populated areas even the repair business is taken a hit, plus everybody has a cue repair lathe . The pool hall owners because they need to squeze every dime to stay a float, and the slew of dreamers that relatively cheap equipment has brought into the repair business.
Erik numbers are on the money
but if you're infected with the need to create something where nothing existed before then you've got to roll with the punches. Every artist wants recognition, whether it be praise, money etc. It can be heartbreaking to let go your work for less than its worth. Right now i see what's for sale in this forum and other venues and its heartbreaking to see. As of late I've bought a few cues from different makers just because it sadden me that such quality work could bring so little. As a cuemaker I can't really afford to play with their stuff but I can certainly and quietly admire the craftmsanship and the effort involved. Besides knowing that I cannot reproduce such quality at those prices. On the other hand I'm enjoying building whatever I want and experimenting with new ways. Here again, you have to keep it in perspective. God bless all those who follow their dream, it keeps us alive and trying.
Mario
As long as local pool halls keep closing in the populated areas even the repair business is taken a hit, plus everybody has a cue repair lathe . The pool hall owners because they need to squeze every dime to stay a float, and the slew of dreamers that relatively cheap equipment has brought into the repair business.
Erik numbers are on the money
but if you're infected with the need to create something where nothing existed before then you've got to roll with the punches. Every artist wants recognition, whether it be praise, money etc. It can be heartbreaking to let go your work for less than its worth. Right now i see what's for sale in this forum and other venues and its heartbreaking to see. As of late I've bought a few cues from different makers just because it sadden me that such quality work could bring so little. As a cuemaker I can't really afford to play with their stuff but I can certainly and quietly admire the craftmsanship and the effort involved. Besides knowing that I cannot reproduce such quality at those prices. On the other hand I'm enjoying building whatever I want and experimenting with new ways. Here again, you have to keep it in perspective. God bless all those who follow their dream, it keeps us alive and trying.Mario
I just read your post ...... never added it all up like that ..I think it's true ...and I think I am going to kill myself now. lol
Kim
And for those who can't sell their cues for $400 with points and inlays, it's even more grim.
Most one man shops that are making money are also doing repairs. Some are making a living and others are making decent part time money. If you are in a large metro area with very few cuemakers or repairmen you could probably make a living at it if you really pursued it. That means keeping your face and cues seen at every pool room around and giving room owners a kick back for getting repair work for you.
I wish you well with it.
I wish you well with it.
A different slant...from a future hopefull
First of all, thanks to everyone who has posted. I read every word and really enjoyed hearing from those who have been there, done that no matter if they have made a living or not.
I'm looking at it from a different view.
I'm a CAD Engineer by trade and a pool nut by nature. The cue's are a past time for me and not a needed source of income so i can take my time learning what i need to know and building up a humble workshop in my home.
Note to mention on my skill level: at this point i have not finished my first cue but have a steady customer base for repairs. Its the repairs that are funding the new machines etc... i'm trying to run this adventure as a self sustaining entity. I track every penny that i spend and make and currently due to a lathe purchase i'monly a few hundred out of pocket.
I'm in a fortunate position where by the only cue guy in our area is winding down and not doing as much work now, which is kind of why i started, i saw an opening. I'm getting a lot of his customers who also realise that he's not doing the same volume of work anymore.
So...here goes.
The reason I'm investing heavily in committment towards my hobby is so that i can leave a leggacy. Our local football (soccer to you lads) ground was named after my Grandad and still bares our family name. I dont know if i'll every be able to leave a leggacy like that but i'd love it if my great grand kids could walk into a tournament and see a dozen players using my cues.
I know that i can't go into full time cue making but i still find it amazing that someone can make something that will outlast them.
I'll let you all know how my first cue goes :thumbup:
Karl
First of all, thanks to everyone who has posted. I read every word and really enjoyed hearing from those who have been there, done that no matter if they have made a living or not.
I'm looking at it from a different view.
I'm a CAD Engineer by trade and a pool nut by nature. The cue's are a past time for me and not a needed source of income so i can take my time learning what i need to know and building up a humble workshop in my home.
Note to mention on my skill level: at this point i have not finished my first cue but have a steady customer base for repairs. Its the repairs that are funding the new machines etc... i'm trying to run this adventure as a self sustaining entity. I track every penny that i spend and make and currently due to a lathe purchase i'monly a few hundred out of pocket.
I'm in a fortunate position where by the only cue guy in our area is winding down and not doing as much work now, which is kind of why i started, i saw an opening. I'm getting a lot of his customers who also realise that he's not doing the same volume of work anymore.
So...here goes.
The reason I'm investing heavily in committment towards my hobby is so that i can leave a leggacy. Our local football (soccer to you lads) ground was named after my Grandad and still bares our family name. I dont know if i'll every be able to leave a leggacy like that but i'd love it if my great grand kids could walk into a tournament and see a dozen players using my cues.
I know that i can't go into full time cue making but i still find it amazing that someone can make something that will outlast them.
I'll let you all know how my first cue goes :thumbup:
Karl
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