Gang banged

[rackem]

More to it than bubble wrap

I don't think the escrow escrow thread was started as a sticky. It was probably made a sticky due to the trust that the owner and forum community have in Fast_n_loose's ability to do the job.
Just because Cuebux wishes to offer the service does not mean he has the knowledge necessary.
By the way what is with all the stickies?

 

[Poolplaya9]

I don't think the escrow escrow thread was started as a sticky. It was probably made a sticky due to the trust that the owner and forum community have in Fast_n_loose's ability to do the job.
Just because Cuebux wishes to offer the service does not mean he has the knowledge necessary.
By the way what is with all the stickies?

I'm sure you are right in that it was not started as a regular thread, not as a sticky. And this is exactly the reason why offers of a product or service for profit should never be made into a sticky, ever. Even though it was a kind gesture and the mod's heart was in the right place with the attempt to help the community, it was still a horrible idea none the less and should be removed unless he is prepared to offer a sticky to anyone else that wants one and has a product or service for sale.

Whether or not Cuebux is known, or even competent, has nothing to do with what is right or wrong in this case, although I understand your line of thought.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

As for what you offer, there is a sales section.

Markus is very well known in our circles and the offer was proposed to me and I gave him permission. I also made it stick because I think that people who chose not to use an escrow service with someone they trust.....has no right to complain.

You May start a thread in the sales are offering you service, and if people chose to use it, that is fine.

That said, the services will NOT be considered a service of AZB and they will be conducted in private.

 

[TXsouthpaw]

So where is this "gang bang" you speak of?

ROTFLMAO, I was thinkin the same thing.

 

[larrynj1]

EXACTLY!

That thread is for all to post there escrow services not just one person (Its a sticky at the top of wanted/for sale)

My question is how does he deserve to perminately(semi) be posted to the top of the page with his merchant services, and not me, or anyone else

would you like some cheese with that whine?

 

[Black-Balled]

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok so I guess I hijacked someones thread, and then fixed it by starting my own thread.. Now im receiving negative rep every 10 minutes.

The thread happens to be a sticky titled escrow escrow escrow and I posted that I was willing to offer the same service. My understanding was that this was a post to allow users to offer escrow services, as it is a sticky.

Should this merchant service thread only be available from one user on az?
was I wrong in posting my own escrow services on this thread

Anyone else see any problem with this

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

As for what you offer, there is a sales section.

Markus is very well known in our circles and the offer was proposed to me and I gave him permission. I also made it stick because I think that people who chose not to use an escrow service with someone they trust.....has no right to complain.

You May start a thread in the sales are offering you service, and if people chose to use it, that is fine.

That said, the services will NOT be considered a service of AZB and they will be conducted in private.

I APPRECIATE THAT.....

SORRY TO START AN ISSUE, I WAS JUST LOOKING TO BE SURE THAT EVERYONE KNEW THAT THERE WAS A TRUSTED ESCROW SERVICE AVAILABLE.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Ok so I guess I hijacked someones thread, and then fixed it by starting my own thread.. Now im receiving negative rep every 10 minutes.

The thread happens to be a sticky titled escrow escrow escrow and I posted that I was willing to offer the same service. My understanding was that this was a post to allow users to offer escrow services, as it is a sticky.

Should this merchant service thread only be available from one user on az?
was I wrong in posting my own escrow services on this thread

Anyone else see any problem with this

I'LL ASK SOME QUESTIONS....

HOW MANY CUES DO YOU OWN?

HOW MANY HAVE YOU OWNED?

HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN DEALING WITH HIGH END CUES?

HAVE YOU HANDLED CUES IN THE 5K, 10K, OR THE 20K PRICE RANGE?

..................

ALL THESE THINGS MATTER. THOSE QUESTIONS, PLUS THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE BASICLY NO TRACK RECORD HERE, WOULD BE THE REASONS WHY YOUR ESCROW SERVICE WOULD BE QUESTIONED.


I'M NOT OFFERING MY SERVICES BECAUSE OF THE MONEY, I OFFERED BECAUSE THE GUYS KNOW ME, AND TRUST ME, AND I DON'T WANT TO SEE PEOPLE RIPPED OFF. ALSO BECAUSE I AM TIRED OF THE "I GOT RIPPED BY" THREADS FILLING UP THE WANTED/ FOR SALE SECTION.

...................................

WHAT YOU DID, BY HIJACKING THE THREAD WAS WRONG, AND IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT, YOU WILL BUILD A BAD REP AROUND HERE IN A HURRY.

...........................

I'M NOT TRYING TO RIP YOU, I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND.

GL WITH ALL YOU DO, I SEE YOUR YOUNG AND JUST GETTING STARTED WITH THIS STUFF. DO THE RIGHT THINGS, AND YOU CAN BUILD A REP HERE IN A HURRY, DO THE WRONG THING ONCE, AND IT'S GONE FOREVER.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

It's Pouring Here And The Red Rep Baron Is Not Donning His Red Red Scarf Today

ALL THESE THINGS MATTER. THOSE QUESTIONS, PLUS THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE BASICLY NO TRACK RECORD HERE, WOULD BE THE REASONS WHY YOUR ESCROW SERVICE WOULD BE QUESTIONED.


GL WITH ALL YOU DO, I SEE YOUR YOUNG AND JUST GETTING STARTED WITH THIS STUFF. DO THE RIGHT THINGS, AND YOU CAN BUILD A REP HERE IN A HURRY, DO THE WRONG THING ONCE, AND IT'S GONE FOREVER.

LOL, I didn't realize that there were members so new, that he (they) wouldn't even get the reference to Cuebux Wheat Escrow Service advertising in post #14.

And, I think that he's never seen a true red Rep bomb run: http://forums.azbilliards.com/memberlist.php?do=getall&page=326&pp=30&order=desc&sort=reputation

Doug

 

[Roy Steffensen]

...................................

WHAT YOU DID, BY HIJACKING THE THREAD WAS WRONG, AND IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT, YOU WILL BUILD A BAD REP AROUND HERE IN A HURRY.

...........................

The thread was a STICKY for people looking for escrowservices.

Is he supposed to get a sticky too, if he starts an escrowthread?

Too much sticky's already, let the people who want to advertise for escrowservices do it in ONE thread, especially since AZB doesn't want any part of it. When Mr. Wilson says AZB is no part of it, why favour only one of the posters here by letting only one guy get a sticky??

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

The thread was a STICKY for people looking for escrowservices.

Is he supposed to get a sticky too, if he starts an escrowthread?

Too much sticky's already, let the people who want to advertise for escrowservices do it in ONE thread, especially since AZB doesn't want any part of it. When Mr. Wilson says AZB is no part of it, why favour only one of the posters here by letting only one guy get a sticky??

THE STICKY WAS FOR MY ESCROW SERVICES, NOT ALL ESCROW SERVICES. (NOT THAT I'M SPECIAL, BUT I DO HAVE A LONG TRUSTED REP, THAT'S WHY WILSON AGREED TO DO IT.


YOU'RE CORRECT, AZ ISN'T INVOLVED IN THE ESCROW, BUT MR. WILSON AGREED THAT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA FOR MEMBERS TO SEE AN ESCROW SERVICE AVAILABLE FROM A LONG TIME MEMBER, WITH A LONG HISTORY OF SMOOTH DEALS.

THE STICKY WASN'T A FAVOR TO ME, IT WAS A FAVOR TO THE REST OF AZ, SO THEY HAD A TRUSTED MEMBER TO USE FOR ESCROW.

Markus is very well known in our circles and the offer was proposed to me and I gave him permission. I also made it stick because I think that people who chose not to use an escrow service with someone they trust.....has no right to complain.

IF YOU THINK IT'S ABOUT MAKING MONEY, YOU ARE SEVERLY MISTAKEN........
THIS WAS DONE, TO HELP AZERS FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WHEN THEY MAKE A DEAL HERE.

 

[Poolplaya9]

THE STICKY WAS FOR MY ESCROW SERVICES, NOT ALL ESCROW SERVICES. (NOT THAT I'M SPECIAL, BUT I DO HAVE A LONG TRUSTED REP, THAT'S WHY WILSON AGREED TO DO IT.


YOU'RE CORRECT, AZ ISN'T INVOLVED IN THE ESCROW, BUT MR. WILSON AGREED THAT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA FOR MEMBERS TO SEE AN ESCROW SERVICE AVAILABLE FROM A LONG TIME MEMBER, WITH A LONG HISTORY OF SMOOTH DEALS.

THE STICKY WASN'T A FAVOR TO ME, IT WAS A FAVOR TO THE REST OF AZ, SO THEY HAD A TRUSTED MEMBER TO USE FOR ESCROW.



IF YOU THINK IT'S ABOUT MAKING MONEY, YOU ARE SEVERLY MISTAKEN........
THIS WAS DONE, TO HELP AZERS FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WHEN THEY MAKE A DEAL HERE.

I find you to be one of the more trusted members out there, and I think your service is a great one that many should and will take advantage of. The sticky thread however is a bad idea, regardless of good intentions.

The bottom line is that AzB singled out, recommended, and gave an unfair advantage to their favorite escrow provider, plain and simple. They made sure everyone knows it is an official AzB recommendation, and even gave you exclusive and prominent free advertising with a sticky thread. Then they have the audacity to turn around and say they don't have anything to do with the service and don't want to be associated with it? They have all kinds of involvement and association with it!

What's next, is AzB going to give a sticky and exclusive recommendations to their favorite AzB cue dealers, their favorite provider of cue repairs, their favorite AzB case maker and seller, their favorite provider of tips and accessories, etc? There would be an uproar if they did, but it wouldn't be any different.

AzB can make people aware of the escrow option by simply having an escrow sticky with links to threads of the AzB members that provide this service. Let people decide for themselves who to use without the favoritism and unfair advantage. Chances are that most people are going to opt for your service anyway because of the long and solid reputation that you have built, but they shouldn't be denied the opportunity to hear about the competing services.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

The "other" services have been out there all along....and people have still refused to use them.

His offer is 20$.


The recomendation I have always made is to use Scott @ Profficient Billiards. IIRC, his starts at 50$ with photos etc. costing more.


Just becasue he got a sticky doesn't give him much of anything, so please quit worrying over it.

If anyone else is offering a solution in terms of escrow, by all means speak up. Make your offer to the public and see how you do.

Not a sleight to Cuebux, but Marcus posts here every day and has for years.

 

[poolpro]

Mr WILSON Way to go!


I just wanted to say I agree with everything about the way this was handled. I am very vocal when I disagree, so I wanted to do the same on the flip side!


Hey everyone, lighten up a bit.

The way I am seeing it. Everyone on here (myself included) were getting bent out of shape because it was felt that AZB was doing nothing to help protect its members from shady scammers.

Now there is a service offered as a solution for that very purpose, and still nobody is happy.

Yes AZB gave a bit of priority to a long standing, respected memeber. In this case I completely agree, otherwise what would be the point? This is a service that is USELESS unless it is being provided by a respected member with a good rep on here.


Notice I said ON HERE. Cuebux, I am sure you are sincere as well, and I do not mean to imply anything about you either way. The main complaint is that people ON HERE want to feel like they are being protected from scammers ON HERE. So yeah, having a great rep ON HERE is a major sticking point.

AZB has not even tried to keep others from offering their services ( again they are not making anything off of the cue sales OR the escrow service).


The facts that remain are

1 Azb is not responsible for ( oe getting paid for) any cue sales or escrow service)

2 You are aware that these services ARE offered ( by more than 1 member)

3 if you choose not to use them, it is your responsibility


Realize that EVERYONE on here who is complaining is fully aware that there is more that 1 member offering this service. Who you choose is up to you.

The main point I am making is that a lot of us were complaining that some people's reputation on here WAS NOT considered ( when they were doing bad things), but when AZB DID factor in a members great rep and acted accordingly in the best interest of all the members,there are still complaints.


JW

 

[jrt30004]

I'LL ASK SOME QUESTIONS....

HOW MANY CUES DO YOU OWN?

HOW MANY HAVE YOU OWNED?

HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN DEALING WITH HIGH END CUES?

HAVE YOU HANDLED CUES IN THE 5K, 10K, OR THE 20K PRICE RANGE?

..................

ALL THESE THINGS MATTER. THOSE QUESTIONS, PLUS THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE BASICLY NO TRACK RECORD HERE, WOULD BE THE REASONS WHY YOUR ESCROW SERVICE WOULD BE QUESTIONED.


I'M NOT OFFERING MY SERVICES BECAUSE OF THE MONEY, I OFFERED BECAUSE THE GUYS KNOW ME, AND TRUST ME, AND I DON'T WANT TO SEE PEOPLE RIPPED OFF. ALSO BECAUSE I AM TIRED OF THE "I GOT RIPPED BY" THREADS FILLING UP THE WANTED/ FOR SALE SECTION.

...................................

WHAT YOU DID, BY HIJACKING THE THREAD WAS WRONG, AND IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT, YOU WILL BUILD A BAD REP AROUND HERE IN A HURRY.

...........................

I'M NOT TRYING TO RIP YOU, I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND.

GL WITH ALL YOU DO, I SEE YOUR YOUNG AND JUST GETTING STARTED WITH THIS STUFF. DO THE RIGHT THINGS, AND YOU CAN BUILD A REP HERE IN A HURRY, DO THE WRONG THING ONCE, AND IT'S GONE FOREVER.

TYPING IN CAPS IMPLIES THAT YOU'RE YELLING - HOW IS THAT HELPING SOMEONE????? THAT'S CHASTISING NOT OFFERING THE SAGE ADVICE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO GIVE. besides all of your ahouting gave me a headache all joking aside you explained you're point of view well. if i needed escrow the first thing i would do is check track record around here, your's is obviously pretty good, and someone who is so new they didn't get the wheat escrow joke wouldn't get the job. cuebux is just going to have to understand that.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

TYPING IN CAPS IMPLIES THAT YOU'RE YELLING - HOW IS THAT HELPING SOMEONE????? THAT'S CHASTISING NOT OFFERING THE SAGE ADVICE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO GIVE. besides all of your ahouting gave me a headache all joking aside you explained you're point of view well. if i needed escrow the first thing i would do is check track record around here, your's is obviously pretty good, and someone who is so new they didn't get the wheat escrow joke wouldn't get the job. cuebux is just going to have to understand that.

I LOVE MY CAPS LOCK......

NOT YELLING, I'M JUST BLIND.....

 

[Poolplaya9]

I normally find myself agreeing with you poolpro, but on this I have to disagree.

The way I am seeing it. Everyone on here (myself included) were getting bent out of shape because it was felt that AZB was doing nothing to help protect its members from shady scammers.

I commend them for doing something, but just because you are doing something doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing, or that you are going about it the right way. And since you mentioned it, it doesn't even really address the issue that everybody was so bent out of shape over to begin with, which was that the scammers were allowed to stay on AzB. Nothing has changed there.

Yes AZB gave a bit of priority to a long standing, respected memeber. In this case I completely agree, otherwise what would be the point?

The point would be to make the members aware that a type of sevice that can protect them exists, provide them with some available options, and let them choose who to use. Using your logic, AzB should also give sticky's to the members that it feels are the best cue sellers, because that would also help to protect it's members. Also for the best case sellers. And for the best accessory sellers. And for the best cue repair persons.

1 Azb is not responsible for ( oe getting paid for) any cue sales or escrow service)

If they are not making money from it and have no responsibility for it, then they shouldn't be providing their exclusive recommendation, and exclusive free advertising. And think about this, what is going to happen the first time somebody is unhappy with the service they received from the AzB recommended service? It's going to come back at AzB, that's what, and rightly so to an extent if you think about it.

2 You are aware that these services ARE offered ( by more than 1 member)

Some members are not aware that these services exist at all, and some of the ones that know they exist don't have a clue who is available to provide them. What would be wrong with having a sticky that links to the members that provide these services, and let people choose for themselves? That still helps the members by providing information they can use to protect themselves, but it removes the unfair advantage or favoritism given to a particular service.

3 if you choose not to use them, it is your responsibility

Exactly. With a sticky that links to the escrow providers that want to be listed, people will be able to choose for themselves who they feel offers the best expertise, experience, and reputation, or they could still choose not to use anyone at all. AzB is completely off the hook because if a person is not satisfied with the escrow service for whatever reason, they made the decision for themselves, and no blame could go towards AzB like it can when they are officially recommending and pushing a particular service.

Realize that EVERYONE on here who is complaining is fully aware that there is more that 1 member offering this service. Who you choose is up to you.

Then why not just have a sticky that just links to the providers, and just let the people choose for themselves? It provides all the benefits, without the drawbacks. The threads from the long time reputable members that are offering escrow services are going to be filled with people vouching for them anyway, so there isn't a need for the website to make an official recommendation or to give exclusive free advertising to only one person. A newer member's escrow thread wouldn't even have anything in it until they start to prove themselves.

Something else to consider... AzB's main reason for not wanting to get involved in the bad deals on here (thefts, scams, frauds, etc) is because they don't feel it's their place to make judgements about the business practices. If they don't feel it's their place there (even when it's often clear cut and obvious), then how on earth do they feel like it's their place to turn around and make the very same type judgements by recommending someone as the best provider of a particular service (and giving exclusive perks), or by making judgements that the service offered by one person is better than the service offered by another person?

 

[shinobi]

The sticky thread however is a bad idea, regardless of good intentions.

The bottom line is that AzB singled out, recommended, and gave an unfair advantage to their favorite escrow provider, plain and simple. They made sure everyone knows it is an official AzB recommendation, and even gave you exclusive and prominent free advertising with a sticky thread.

Whether or not you agree that they "should" recommend a particular escrow service, it's a free country and AZB is certainly entitled to do so if they wish.

As for them saying they are not affiliated with the escrow, it's true. And it makes sense to point it out just for liability reasons.

 

[Poolplaya9]

The "other" services have been out there all along....and people have still refused to use them.

The other services have not had a sticky thread all along. They would have been used more if they had.

There were also no escrow services for the cheap price of $20 until now, and now there are at least two of them. For that reason alone they will have more appeal and be used quite a bit more that other services from the past.

If anyone else is offering a solution in terms of escrow, by all means speak up. Make your offer to the public and see how you do.

A good solution was already offered. Have a escrow sticky thread that links to any threads offering escrow. People will see the sticky, and they can decide who is the best option for themselves. Escrow use will go up because of the sticky that points them to the options, and because of the cheaper new options that are available. All the benefits, none of the drawbacks.

Not a sleight to Cuebux, but Marcus posts here every day and has for years.

So what? That means you should be singing his praises every chance you get in the appropriate threads. It doesn't mean he is entitled to his own personal sticky.

Let's not mince words. Marcus has a good reputation, and his new service sounds like a great one at an absolutely amazing price. He would be my personal first choice for escrow by far, and probably for most others as well. Make an escrow sticky thread that links to anyone who wants to be listed and let people choose for themselves. Peoples work and reputations, and the resulting testimonials, will speak for themselves.

 

[Poolplaya9]

Whether or not you agree that they "should" recommend a particular escrow service, it's a free country and AZB is certainly entitled to do so if they wish.

As for them saying they are not affiliated with the escrow, it's true. And it makes sense to point it out just for liability reasons.

I'm talking about right and wrong. I never said they were breaking a federal law or anything...lol.

To give a service an official recommendation, as well as preferential treatment and perks that include free, prominent, and exclusive advertising, sure seems to create an affiliation to me, albeit not a financially rewarding one for at least one of the parties. Just semantics though, substitute your own choice of word for "affiliated."