Same law is now in Oregon. Very happy that none of my cues have ivory.
Ginacue popped over ivory, hopefully much or all fake.
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Same law is now in Oregon. Very happy that none of my cues have ivory.
By next week, more will be known but cue-makers everywhere need to take heed....you can't sell or ship any new cues to anyone in CA if there is any ivory whatsoever.......period!
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Ive heard from a few people that if Trump is elected all the ivory laws go away. If true that would be nice because i love ivory cues. I dont need the cues to ne all decked out in ivory with design although i do like it, butt the playability of it in the joint & ferrules is a must for me.
Just by mentioning Ginacues puts the whole cue making world on notice.
The only way the ivory ban could go away nationally is by enactment of a new Federal law saying it was legal to own and use ivory for any purpose as long as it was legal pre-ban ivory which there's plenty of.
That would lead to a battle of states rights and in turn, the matter would escalate through the Federal Court System all the way up to the Supreme Court, or certainly at least the Appellate level.
A President cannot, even through Executive Order, usurp any state law and effectively declare any law(s) to be null & void during their term of office. It requires passage of a new Federal statute.
That would lead to a battle of states rights and in turn, the matter would escalate through the Federal Court System all the way up to the Supreme Court, or certainly at least the Appellate level.
A President cannot, even through Executive Order, usurp any state law and effectively declare any law(s) to be null & void during their term of office. It requires passage of a new Federal statute.
CA Ivory Law
If anyone is interested for the CA law it is Fish and Game Code 2022
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fgc&group=01001-02000&file=2000-2022
Not a very difficult section to read through.
As others have pointed out this appears to be the feds (USFWS) case which is a different standard.
and to "Bank It"......the USFWS does deal with wildlife in this country but two of the main acts they enforce are the Endangered Species Act (which essentially implements CITES) and the Lacey Act. Both acts deal, in part, with enforcement of unlawfully taken foreign species. Most of the native wildlife enforcement is done by the state Fish and Wildlife agencies.
If anyone is interested for the CA law it is Fish and Game Code 2022
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fgc&group=01001-02000&file=2000-2022
Not a very difficult section to read through.
As others have pointed out this appears to be the feds (USFWS) case which is a different standard.
and to "Bank It"......the USFWS does deal with wildlife in this country but two of the main acts they enforce are the Endangered Species Act (which essentially implements CITES) and the Lacey Act. Both acts deal, in part, with enforcement of unlawfully taken foreign species. Most of the native wildlife enforcement is done by the state Fish and Wildlife agencies.
Um ? didn't you already start a thread about this ? i take it you did not like the outcome of the comments you got ? So now your trying to stir the pot again ?
I have heard that they have stated they are not going to go after the the one off purchase or sale of cues with small amounts of ivory such as ferrules or buying used cues.
However when I heard about the law I immediately thought if anyone was going to get in trouble it would be Ginacue.
He makes many cues that have TONS of ivory, and then to produce a bunch that were then exported that is just asking for trouble. And it seems if they were used in CA, even with that being illegal they may have not charged him with anything.
It just looks like an attempt to export ivory.
Now, I also know that Ernie would never do that and takes a ton of pride in his craftmanship and loves ivory, so there was never any intent. It is a silly law that will not save a single elephant. I am also not big on ivory in cues either. Juma pretty much accomplishes the same thing.
However when I heard about the law I immediately thought if anyone was going to get in trouble it would be Ginacue.
He makes many cues that have TONS of ivory, and then to produce a bunch that were then exported that is just asking for trouble. And it seems if they were used in CA, even with that being illegal they may have not charged him with anything.
It just looks like an attempt to export ivory.
Now, I also know that Ernie would never do that and takes a ton of pride in his craftmanship and loves ivory, so there was never any intent. It is a silly law that will not save a single elephant. I am also not big on ivory in cues either. Juma pretty much accomplishes the same thing.
Or cows.
A good question is: Why are there millions (billions?) of cows that are harvested and eaten everyday by billions of humans, yet elephants are going extinct?
There's a good answer to that and it has to do with bad legislation.
Jeff Livingston
I've been to Ernie's shop several times recently, before and after the end of june and he shared some details about this. He also asked me not to talk about it but to quell the speculation i will clear up a few of the facts that have been mentioned here and in the news.
The sale in question occurred before the ban date.
Prior to the ban date he liquidated his ivory stock.
Prior to the ban date he finished all orders that would have contained any ivory and will no longer build any cues with ivory.
He does have legal representation.
He is a law abiding man, is concerned about the situation, had/has no intention of thumbing his nose at the authorities and would just like to clear his name and reputation and go on building cues (now without ivory) as he has for the last 50+ years.
He has always been patient, kind and informative to me and i wish him the best possible outcome.
Best to you all
Tony C
The sale in question occurred before the ban date.
Prior to the ban date he liquidated his ivory stock.
Prior to the ban date he finished all orders that would have contained any ivory and will no longer build any cues with ivory.
He does have legal representation.
He is a law abiding man, is concerned about the situation, had/has no intention of thumbing his nose at the authorities and would just like to clear his name and reputation and go on building cues (now without ivory) as he has for the last 50+ years.
He has always been patient, kind and informative to me and i wish him the best possible outcome.
Best to you all
Tony C
Thanks Tony......it seems like the most likely scenario is the guys trying to take the cues out of the country got nailed. The country of destination could have been a participating treaty country on the ban of ivory.
So Ernie makes the cue in compliance with the CA law which he is subject to since he's in CA. The cues get completed before July 1, 2016 and these guys pick up the cues from Ernie after the ban. Now if the cues were paid in full and no additional money or payment of any form was involved subsequent to June 30, 2016, Ernie will be just fine. However, if there's payment of any form after June 30th which could be when the cues were picked up, Ernie broke the CA law & is guilty. However, it could be the cues were picked up before June 30th, and then Ernie is in the clear.
If Ernie did what Tony C. wrote, he should be alright but the law is straightforward and simple to understand. Anyone that is aware of the CA ivory ban and violates it, they deserve all the grief imaginable........it is a vanilla favored law.......plain and simple........NO IVORY SALES.
So Ernie makes the cue in compliance with the CA law which he is subject to since he's in CA. The cues get completed before July 1, 2016 and these guys pick up the cues from Ernie after the ban. Now if the cues were paid in full and no additional money or payment of any form was involved subsequent to June 30, 2016, Ernie will be just fine. However, if there's payment of any form after June 30th which could be when the cues were picked up, Ernie broke the CA law & is guilty. However, it could be the cues were picked up before June 30th, and then Ernie is in the clear.
If Ernie did what Tony C. wrote, he should be alright but the law is straightforward and simple to understand. Anyone that is aware of the CA ivory ban and violates it, they deserve all the grief imaginable........it is a vanilla favored law.......plain and simple........NO IVORY SALES.
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Makes me wonder if Ernie can just open a Nevada corp and move his finished cues there .
Then the sale will be conducted there .
This freaking govt. is becoming the Nazi govt.
It's freaking sad .
The man built his business for 50 years complying with all the laws ( God freaking knows how stupid and mundane they are in Nazifornia and USA ), then he could be put out of business over using ivory that were legal before . Never mind the grand daddy or ex post facto, huh?
The US govt. has not been representing the people for decades already.
The big corporations and Wall Street run this country. It doesn't matter if the president is a dem or repub. JFK might have been the last non-corporate puppet. And for that, he was killed .
The govt. does not care if they export all the jobs and industries out of the country so long as the corporations make more money.
They couldn't care less if they kill all the little American industries ( knives, guns, cues, shoes, art, furniture, etc ).
So long as Wall Street , banks and big corporations are making money.
The next president is going to be another puppet. One has already been proven a traitor.
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They don't have to make laws. They can just get the Supreme Court to make a ruling.
They can also just blackmail the states basically like some were threatened with pulling fed funds for roads when particular states didn't want to raise the drinking age
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Yep. We live in a country where the right to burn or desecrate the American flag is protected by law, but, sell or ship a cue with an ivory inlay and you will be dealt with severely. We have come so far.
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