is that at most 2 anniversery cues??
Ginacue popped over ivory, hopefully much or all fake.
- Thread starter ShootingArts
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is that at most 2 anniversery cues??
Cuemakers and dealers have been outed in the past for being copiers, theives, and scammers. Players also.
Whistleblowers just get called jealous and such.
Many don't give a chit so long as they got what they want.
That and well I guess our sport and industry is a big enough joke as is and no one wants some major headline over these things.
Plenty of people can be good at what they do. And still be nothing but trash.
Just like it's bs how say celebrities get those free rides because of fame mainly.....I'm not giving any passes based on stellar play or Purdy cues.
I wonder if some of these "good guys" who are known , very not good guys by any means are giving out free head and handjobs at times.
At a minimum many of us know if the grand circle jerk that's been going on for years.
Only newbs, the forcefully blind and leaguetards as one of our hilarious members said it.....are ignorant to it. Don't even bother to inform them. They don't care either.
But I really like the newbs who just idolize and think oh there's no way......ohhhhhhhh yessss there is bet your butt. But not against Howard vickery if your under 18......winner winner chicken dinner right there.
Can't fix stupid. Can't grow or progress by hiding the mess under a rug either.
I can't stand this crap even coming out of me. It's gross. I love this sport. It's great. But man wtf is wrong with people
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Whistleblowers just get called jealous and such.
Many don't give a chit so long as they got what they want.
That and well I guess our sport and industry is a big enough joke as is and no one wants some major headline over these things.
Plenty of people can be good at what they do. And still be nothing but trash.
Just like it's bs how say celebrities get those free rides because of fame mainly.....I'm not giving any passes based on stellar play or Purdy cues.
I wonder if some of these "good guys" who are known , very not good guys by any means are giving out free head and handjobs at times.
At a minimum many of us know if the grand circle jerk that's been going on for years.
Only newbs, the forcefully blind and leaguetards as one of our hilarious members said it.....are ignorant to it. Don't even bother to inform them. They don't care either.
But I really like the newbs who just idolize and think oh there's no way......ohhhhhhhh yessss there is bet your butt. But not against Howard vickery if your under 18......winner winner chicken dinner right there.
Can't fix stupid. Can't grow or progress by hiding the mess under a rug either.
I can't stand this crap even coming out of me. It's gross. I love this sport. It's great. But man wtf is wrong with people
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I heard that the feds didn't visit at all but that he turned himself in.
Ernie is a proud man. I doubt he would confess to something he didn't do. He's a fighter too, so don't expect him to roll over either. Plus he's smart as well. A lot smarter than most people know. I expect to see all charges dropped against him soon and he be totally vindicated. JMHO as always.
It comes to down to what all prosecution comes down to nowadays: The govt will (or not, depending on who wants to be governor, etc.) continue to threaten this guy, who apparently has harmed no one, until he cannot afford to fight it, then they'll offer a plea bargain, and he'll pay with both time and money and loss of reputation, but then someone has more clout to become governor! yea, then voters can vote for him to save the elephants!
Meanwhile, the tragedy of the commons, caused by crappy govt legislation, goes on and the elephants continue to die.
This is an old economic problem that has been solved long ago for most scare resources. That it exist is evidence that the govts involved from Africa to California don't care about elephants or Ernie, but do care about money and power. Ernie is just another means, not a human whose rights are to be protected, to those ends.
Jeff Livingston
lol.
Ernie is a smart cookie and probably was aware of the pertinent laws. So it follows he wouldn't break them, not the other way around. And if you've ever ordered a cue from him you'd know it's very much a "just the facts" kind of process. What he cares about are the specs and design the customer wants and he goes the extra mile to ensure you get it. What the customer is going to do with the cue once he gets paid is of no concern to him.
Yes, Ernie is a big name to us. The general public, no. Fancy pool cues are a niche the general public is unaware of. So there is virtually no PR value to the government, compared to going after a company like Gibson or Steinway.
And despite the trolls here who are running around with their torches and pitchforks, all will be well. Ivory cues will retain, if not increase in value, because they will, over time, become more scarce. Nothing is going to change the intrinsic beauty of Ernie's work and it's inherent desirability.
He will pay dearly? $85K could be one cue. He has sold some for more. He will be fine.
Lou Figueroa
Pangit
Banned
I agree that synthetic ivory sounds better in every way. If everyone were using it there wouldn't be this problem? The modern day plastic stuff is pretty good.
Elk Horn is just as pretty as ivory and really does drop off of non-endangerged species once a year without killing them to get it, and if you do kill it venison is tasty. I don't know what elephant tastes like.
Proverbs abound in every culture about 'Take only what you need'.
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I hope you are right. I have pristine specimens from several top cue makers with varying amounts of Ivory including Searing, Hercek, Scruggs, Black Boar, Barnhart, Bender, etc.
I have been considering what to do with them through all this ivory BS.
"
We can All pontificate on the if's, when's, & how's with regard to this debacle ... but,
Poor Ernie is still the one with His Nuts in the Vise.
Poor Ernie is still the one with His Nuts in the Vise.
I think Ernie is in deep dodo. This is a situation where you have to prove your innocence not the gov't proving your guilt. This is not unlike an IRS audit where you have to prove where you got your money from. The ban on the international movement of ivory and the nebulous laws governing that movement will be hard for him to overcome. At the very least, cue sales where ivory is involved are going to plummet. Ernie is well known for his ivory work probably more than any other cue maker in our era. Gibson Guitar Company got raided a few years ago and almost lost their venerable company because of certain imported woods which are banned in the USA. A trip to Ernie's shop may well lead to more charges. At his age (75) I think if he beats these charges or otherwise he is going to pack it in. Every cue maker better beware of ivory and exotic wood used in their cues for fear of the long hand of the law reaching in and confiscating their materials and cues. Here are some other areas where cue makers may get in trouble, they include: elephant hide tips and wraps, rhino wraps and walrus tusks just to mention a few.
Originally Posted by lfigueroa
"And despite the trolls here who are running around with their torches and pitchforks, all will be well. Ivory cues will retain, if not increase in value, because they will, over time, become more scarce."
I think Lou is right.........when it comes to prices of any types of artifacts or pool cues. the two primary determining factors for determining price are rarity and scarcity. When a talented cue-maker produces a small annual volume of pool cues,the overall likelihood is that the demand for those cues will be high.....often resulting in long waiting lists. Additionally, not all of the cues a cue-maker produces will use ivory for the joint, ferrules & decorative designs so there's really a mixture of cues but the best designs generally would have used ivory...IMO as supported by all 3 editions of the Blue Book of Cues.
Rarity means how many of those cues designs did that cue-maker produce in his lifetime......and with ivory cues no longer being made by some cue-makers, that number is now capped for all perpetuity. Scarcity means how many of those same cue designs can be located and are "currently available" for sale....those cues may exist but how many are sold annually.......and the smaller the number, the higher the price based upon the market principles of rarity & scarcity which decides the supply & demand scenario.
So while I did not acquire my EP cue originally for the purposes of making a profit, I'm starting to think the current outlook sure seems to favor that outcome. The two matching shafts Ed was making for me is now dead since he can't use ivory ferrules so I am out of luck. However, the shafts on my cue are 13mm so that should work in my favor not being tooth pick size. Let's face it......the outlook right now is a total crap shoot, nonetheless, my gut tells me some cue-makers' cues are going to jump in value. I think my EP will be just such a cue and if it doesn't, no big deal since I acquired it for personal play so I can't lose no matter what. Anyway, I betcha by 2020, its value would be a lot greater & thank goodness I've got plenty of cues to use in the meantime. I'm starting to think it might be time to store the EP away just in case I am right.
"And despite the trolls here who are running around with their torches and pitchforks, all will be well. Ivory cues will retain, if not increase in value, because they will, over time, become more scarce."
I think Lou is right.........when it comes to prices of any types of artifacts or pool cues. the two primary determining factors for determining price are rarity and scarcity. When a talented cue-maker produces a small annual volume of pool cues,the overall likelihood is that the demand for those cues will be high.....often resulting in long waiting lists. Additionally, not all of the cues a cue-maker produces will use ivory for the joint, ferrules & decorative designs so there's really a mixture of cues but the best designs generally would have used ivory...IMO as supported by all 3 editions of the Blue Book of Cues.
Rarity means how many of those cues designs did that cue-maker produce in his lifetime......and with ivory cues no longer being made by some cue-makers, that number is now capped for all perpetuity. Scarcity means how many of those same cue designs can be located and are "currently available" for sale....those cues may exist but how many are sold annually.......and the smaller the number, the higher the price based upon the market principles of rarity & scarcity which decides the supply & demand scenario.
So while I did not acquire my EP cue originally for the purposes of making a profit, I'm starting to think the current outlook sure seems to favor that outcome. The two matching shafts Ed was making for me is now dead since he can't use ivory ferrules so I am out of luck. However, the shafts on my cue are 13mm so that should work in my favor not being tooth pick size. Let's face it......the outlook right now is a total crap shoot, nonetheless, my gut tells me some cue-makers' cues are going to jump in value. I think my EP will be just such a cue and if it doesn't, no big deal since I acquired it for personal play so I can't lose no matter what. Anyway, I betcha by 2020, its value would be a lot greater & thank goodness I've got plenty of cues to use in the meantime. I'm starting to think it might be time to store the EP away just in case I am right.
Matt, I think you're dreaming. Rarity doesn't equate to value when it comes with fines and imprisonment. You might be sitting on a gold mine, but so will a hell of a lot of others. Permanently, IMO.
dom_poppa
Banned
Lets pray and hope Ginacue was using synthetic ivory in their newer cues di he can get off.
So, if the gov't accepted tax monies from a Cue containing Ivory, that ended up overseas in violation of a restriction, are they complicit as well? It seems that this would be fair, IMO. I do not know what Ernie did or didn't do, so I won't speculate, but if the states argument is that he violated the law, even if he legitimately didn't know what happened to/with the cues after the sale, then I would say what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Just thinking out loud.
j2
dom_poppa
Banned
Someone on here who knows Ginacue and the smuggler said they know each other very well and are good friends.
It's a couple of pages back.
It would surprise me if the NRA doesn't eventually file suit against the ban. Lot more gun collectors out there with ivory than pool players.
Lou Figueroa
Not arguing with ya lou but You Really think so? I know many gun collectors and none of them have anything ivory but just about everyone I know with a handful of cues has some ivory somewhere....I'm asking is that a professional or personal opinion or something
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