Going into the stack early?

BeiberLvr

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's the early stages of the rack. Most of the stack is still clustered and there's only one ball that can be used to go into it and spread them out.

There's about 4 or 5 other balls that are in the open.

1. Do you plan a pattern that will get you to that break ball early on?

2. Save it for last, and play a safety if you don't get the proper angle to go into the stack?
 
Personally as a general rule I like to take care of problems earlier rather than later. In this case that is probably what I would do. As you stated, if you play it last and don't get good on it, you have to play a safety. I'd rather try to get on that ball to break open the stack and if I don't I still have those open balls to make a second or third attempt t getting good on the break shot.
 
Get position to open as soon as you can. If you wait till last and and don't get position you're done. It's hard to imagine 4 or 5 balls loose from the stack and no way to get the right position to open the balls a little with any of them. I always felt that with 3 loose balls and a good player, he could shoot the first to get the right position on the second balls to make the third ball into a break shot.
 
I agree with Dogs. It's a good idea to leave some insurance balls in case the break shot doesn't go as planned, as long as they are not in the area where you will be breaking balls into.
 
BeiberLvr said:
It's the early stages of the rack. Most of the stack is still clustered and there's only one ball that can be used to go into it and spread them out.

There's about 4 or 5 other balls that are in the open.

1. Do you plan a pattern that will get you to that break ball early on?

2. Save it for last, and play a safety if you don't get the proper angle to go into the stack?
Click to expand...

It depends. If the most likely break will send more balls over by the ones that are already loose, it's best to get rid of them before the secondary break. The best case for this sort of situation is to have the break ball and the next ball loose when you break. If the break will send the cluster away from the loose ones then break earlier.

Of course if there is no likely sequence to both clear up and get on the break ball, then you have to get to the break ball sooner. Clean up what you can first and make sure you have the best possible angle on the break.

Some call that loose ball at the end an "insurance ball," but unless you are playing shape on a particular ball in the cluster, I'd call it "position." Play for a specific angle on it when you go into the cluster.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It depends. If the most likely break will send more balls over by the ones that are already loose, it's best to get rid of them before the secondary break. The best case for this sort of situation is to have the break ball and the next ball loose when you break. If the break will send the cluster away from the loose ones then break earlier.

Of course if there is no likely sequence to both clear up and get on the break ball, then you have to get to the break ball sooner. Clean up what you can first and make sure you have the best possible angle on the break.

Some call that loose ball at the end an "insurance ball," but unless you are playing shape on a particular ball in the cluster, I'd call it "position." Play for a specific angle on it when you go into the cluster.
Click to expand...

That is spot on, i couldn't of said that better myself !!!

-Steve
 
If the loose balls are below the rack they could cause more problems when you break open the balls .If the loose balls are above the rack break the balls asap & the loose balls will prop give you insurance IMHO
 
gerard soriano said:
If the loose balls are below the rack they could cause more problems when you break open the balls .If the loose balls are above the rack break the balls asap & the loose balls will prop give you insurance IMHO
Click to expand...

Balls above the rack are closer to the area you break from?

And thanks everyone. I'm certain this new knowledge will help me.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It depends. If the most likely break will send more balls over by the ones that are already loose, it's best to get rid of them before the secondary break. The best case for this sort of situation is to have the break ball and the next ball loose when you break. If the break will send the cluster away from the loose ones then break earlier.

Of course if there is no likely sequence to both clear up and get on the break ball, then you have to get to the break ball sooner. Clean up what you can first and make sure you have the best possible angle on the break.

Some call that loose ball at the end an "insurance ball," but unless you are playing shape on a particular ball in the cluster, I'd call it "position." Play for a specific angle on it when you go into the cluster.
Click to expand...

Obviously, Bob's advice is spot-on. I'd like to simply add that there is no set-in-stone-rule about when you should go into a stack. Yes, removing balls that could get tied-up is a great approach and one that many great players will recommend. On the other hand, those same balls can be great insurance after a secondary break-shot to re-establish a pattern.

In sum, if the break-shot is sure to explode everything, I'm not going to worry about what gets tied-up. If I'm going into the stack weakly, I'm going to closely evaluate what problems are likely to arise and determine if waiting is better. I do like picking off balls near pockets simply because they will obviously block future shots but assuming the lanes are clear, how strongly I'm going into the rack will be a huge determinant as to whether to take it now or later.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Obviously, Bob's advice is spot-on. I'd like to simply add that there is no set-in-stone-rule about when you should go into a stack. Yes, removing balls that could get tied-up is a great approach and one that many great players will recommend. On the other hand, those same balls can be great insurance after a secondary break-shot to re-establish a pattern.

In sum, if the break-shot is sure to explode everything, I'm not going to worry about what gets tied-up. If I'm going into the stack weakly, I'm going to closely evaluate what problems are likely to arise and determine if waiting is better. I do like picking off balls near pockets simply because they will obviously block future shots but assuming the lanes are clear, how strongly I'm going into the rack will be a huge determinant as to whether to take it now or later.
Click to expand...

I agree with Bob's and Jude's advice. Sometimes, it's a "moment of contemplation" of whether you should go into the stack, or not. Just take a minute, and look things over. If you're going to push the balls into more balls (and create more clusters than you had before), you need to carefully weigh the benefit of going into the stack from that angle.

I never knew this until recently, but I'm more apt to go into the stack from underneath (having a security or insurance ball by one of the corner pockets) than from any other angle. After one day of noticing this, and asking myself the question why, I guess the answer is because I'm pushing balls into more open space, than forcing them into a nearby rail or congested space.

I also happen to prefer behind-the-rack breakshots, for the same reason. The experience dealt to me with this type of breakshot may have an influence on why I'm more apt to go into a semi-broken stack from underneath, than from the side or up-top.

Also, when going into the stack, I try to pay careful attention as to what ball (and what "side" of the ball) I hit. It might be a zig-zag four-ball pattern that, if hit on one side of the ball, opens them up like a flower; but if hit on the other side, sends the cue ball dangerously into another cluster or towards a pocket. It really depends.

Taking Bob's/Jude's advice as a general wiring harness or guide is wise, though.

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
I agree with Bob's and Jude's advice. Sometimes, it's a "moment of contemplation" of whether you should go into the stack, or not. Just take a minute, and look things over. If you're going to push the balls into more balls (and create more clusters than you had before), you need to carefully weigh the benefit of going into the stack from that angle.

I never knew this until recently, but I'm more apt to go into the stack from underneath (having a security or insurance ball by one of the corner pockets) than from any other angle. After one day of noticing this, and asking myself the question why, I guess the answer is because I'm pushing balls into more open space, than forcing them into a nearby rail or congested space.

I also happen to prefer behind-the-rack breakshots, for the same reason. The experience dealt to me with this type of breakshot may have an influence on why I'm more apt to go into a semi-broken stack from underneath, than from the side or up-top.

Also, when going into the stack, I try to pay careful attention as to what ball (and what "side" of the ball) I hit. It might be a zig-zag four-ball pattern that, if hit on one side of the ball, opens them up like a flower; but if hit on the other side, sends the cue ball dangerously into another cluster or towards a pocket. It really depends.

Taking Bob's/Jude's advice as a general wiring harness or guide is wise, though.

-Sean
Click to expand...

I LOOOOOOOOVE behind-the-rack break shots and precisely for the same reason. I also agree with what you say about which side of the ball you're hitting when going into the stack. Yes, it's really important to pay close attention to what the cue-ball is going to do. In fact, if you have multiple break-shot options, this could help you decide which to go with and/or how hard to play it and/or using top/center/bottom. Every so often, there are break-shots that you must take that you know could end badly. Once you've done this about a million times, you learn to recognize them when they arise and hopefully prevent them.
 
Raggedy Andy said:
Two Words: Insurance ball.
Click to expand...

Andy:

Thanks, but I think the OP's question goes beyond that (i.e. it's assumed). More to the tune of "should I go into the stack now, with insurance ball? Or should I go into the stack later, with insurance ball?" Namely, "when" is the "correct" time to go into the stack?

Obviously, that's a difficult one to answer, but there are basic guidelines, as outlined by Bob J. and Jude.

-Sean
 
BeiberLvr said:
Balls above the rack are closer to the area you break from?

And thanks everyone. I'm certain this new knowledge will help me.
Click to expand...

This baffled me for years- until I actually asked someone.

Head rail is high/above, foot rail is low/below.

(The one at the breaking end is the head rail.)
 
If there are 4 or 5 balls in the open there is more than 1 ball which can be used to break them open. Straight pool 101 says find a shot with an insurance ball when possible.
 
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