Gold Crown IV Cushions/Replacements

DrCue'sProtege said:
I guess what this boils down to is that if and when I decided to have this done I will go with what my mechanic recommends. He is big into restoring old pool tables and I've been told he is a Gold Crown expert. So I am going to rely on his expertise in this matter.

r/DCP
Click to expand...

This thread you started with a simple inquiry has gone in a crappy direction. Unfortunately.

I would have been delighted to get Superspeed cushions for my GC1 because I, like many others have stated, had zero issue with the originals as far as performance. They were great!!!

But alas, they provided nearly 50 years of good service and needed replacing. This is where the problem lies. I replaced my cushions with Superspeeds and they crapped out in about a year with the aforementioned hard spots - lots of them.

I figured I must have got mine from a bad batch and so I reordered more superspeeds and had the exact same thing happen. After inquiring about it I heard from others that they were experiencing the exact same thing.

Fool me once, then twice, bla blah, you know the rest.

So please consider this when making your decision.

The Artemis IC's play fantastic.

I've also heard very good reports about the black cushions that Diamond offered (offers?).

GL

best,
brian kc
 
Cardigan Kid said:
seems like the bigger 3 cushion ball would hop quite a bit on p59

what does gabriels use?

so you are saying simonis/klematch make a p59 profile, just to market it to south american billiard markets?

Here is from their website where they only mention the p37 is for Carom tables.

Now available from Iwan Simonis Inc, KLEMATCH® cushions by Anvis.
The BEST!!
KLEMATCH® rubber is molded, not extruded, which allows for unmatched consistency throughout the entire piece of rubber, and from one piece to the next. This uniformity provides you with predictable and repeatable cusion rebound at every point of the table, and KLEMATCH® rubber will not dry out or get hard over time.
P-59 without canvas backing, 9-foot

P-59 with canvas backing, 9-foot

P-37 with canvas backing, 10-foot (Carom)


NOW ALSO AVAILABLE:

P-59 with canvas backing, 10-foot (direct replcement for antique Brunswick® carom tables)

They even have the pdf spec sheet available for download here:

http://www.simoniscloth.com/press/news/28/klematch-cushions
Click to expand...

You left off the word "billiard" at the end of the 9ft. I told you they're billiard cushions, but any cushions can be.mounted to any sub rails if they're redesigned to fit them, but that still don't make them right.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
This thread you started with a simple inquiry has gone in a crappy direction. Unfortunately.

I would have been delighted to get Superspeed cushions for my GC1 because I, like many others have stated, had zero issue with the originals as far as performance. They were great!!!

But alas, they provided nearly 50 years of good service and needed replacing. This is where the problem lies. I replaced my cushions with Superspeeds and they crapped out in about a year with the aforementioned hard spots - lots of them.

I figured I must have got mine from a bad batch and so I reordered more superspeeds and had the exact same thing happen. After inquiring about it I heard from others that they were experiencing the exact same thing.

Fool me once, then twice, bla blah, you know the rest.

So please consider this when making your decision.

The Artemis IC's play fantastic.

I've also heard very good reports about the black cushions that Diamond offered (offers?).

GL

best,
brian kc
Click to expand...

Brunswick has since changed vendors for making their super speed cushions.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
I guess what this boils down to is that if and when I decided to have this done I will go with what my mechanic recommends. He is big into restoring old pool tables and I've been told he is a Gold Crown expert. So I am going to rely on his expertise in this matter.

r/DCP
Click to expand...

That's foolish, if you care about your money you should know the answers to the important questions before you ask, that way you know if you're working with someone that knows what they're doing. I'm only going to say this once, and that's it. Get the new super speed cushions from west state billiards.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
seems like the bigger 3 cushion ball would hop quite a bit on p59

what does gabriels use?

so you are saying simonis/klematch make a p59 profile, just to market it to south american billiard markets?

Here is from their website where they only mention the p37 is for Carom tables.

Now available from Iwan Simonis Inc, KLEMATCH® cushions by Anvis.
The BEST!!
KLEMATCH® rubber is molded, not extruded, which allows for unmatched consistency throughout the entire piece of rubber, and from one piece to the next. This uniformity provides you with predictable and repeatable cusion rebound at every point of the table, and KLEMATCH® rubber will not dry out or get hard over time.
P-59 without canvas backing, 9-foot

P-59 with canvas backing, 9-foot

P-37 with canvas backing, 10-foot (Carom)


NOW ALSO AVAILABLE:

P-59 with canvas backing, 10-foot (direct replcement for antique Brunswick® carom tables)

They even have the pdf spec sheet available for download here:

http://www.simoniscloth.com/press/news/28/klematch-cushions
Click to expand...

Different billiard games require different cushions....it's all about the game and size of table.
 
realkingcobra said:
Any cushion replacement can be dangerous in the hands of some.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm quite done with Artemis after two tries.
And they weren't cheap.
It will be SuperSpeed if I get done once again.
Hell, a friend's GC3 with black replacement cushions play pretty sporty.
Banks better than mine.
 
Does any high-quality company out there offer an exact profile shape match to the modern Brunswick Super Speed cushions?
 
JoeyInCali said:
Well, I'm quite done with Artemis after two tries.
And they weren't cheap.
It will be SuperSpeed if I get done once again.
Hell, a friend's GC3 with black replacement cushions play pretty sporty.
Banks better than mine.
Click to expand...

All you ever do is complain! The cushions are going to play the way the way the sub rails are designed so the problem is NOT the cushions....it's the SUB-RAILS that the cushion's are attached to....or ALL Artemis cushions installed on ALL pool tables would play just like your table does...don't you get it?

PS, just send your rails to Mark, if he'll even take them, and be done with the complaining, you're looking at about $1,400 + shipping.
 
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realkingcobra said:
All you ever do is complain! The cushions are going to play the way the way the sub rails are designed so the problem is NOT the cushions....it's the SUB-RAILS that the cushion's are attached to....or ALL Artemis cushions installed on ALL pool tables would play just like your table does...don't you get it?
Click to expand...
Then I don't like the Artemis.
You keep flip-flopping Glenn.
The rounded edge of Artemis makes them grab too much.
Not too noticeable on new cloth. When they get old , they grab the ball too much.
Mark told me that eons ago when I told him my cushions are banking short now. I thought they were getting hard.
And they are worse when the subrails aren't done right .
Which is another matter b/c somehow mechs keep messing them up and some turn the rubber upside down. Or something .

Why bother with Artemis if you can't make them play better than the new Super Speed on GC's ?
Ditch them. Stick them on Diamond b/c Super Speed is Brunswick's model.

Diamond's black cushions are relabeled Chinese rubber too.

PS, just send your rails to Mark, if he'll even take them, and be done with the complaining, you're looking at about $1,400 + shipping.
Click to expand...
Err, he won't . Why so he could reface the rails again and replace the cushions ?
 
JoeyInCali said:
Then I don't like the Artemis.
You keep flip-flopping Glenn.
The rounded edge of Artemis makes them grab too much.
Not too noticeable on new cloth. When they get old , they grab the ball too much.
Mark told me that eons ago when I told him my cushions are banking short now. I thought they were getting hard.
And they are worse when the subrails aren't done right .
Which is another matter b/c somehow mechs keep messing them up and some turn the rubber upside down. Or something .

Why bother with Artemis if you can't make them play better than the new Super Speed on GC's ?
Ditch them. Stick them on Diamond b/c Super Speed is Brunswick's model.

Diamond's black cushions are relabeled Chinese rubber too.


Err, he won't . Why so he could reface the rails again and replace the cushions ?
Click to expand...

I have absolutely no problem installing the Artemis cushions on ANY set of rails but....I design the sub rails to fit first. Yes, there is a slight difference in the playability between Artemis and super speed cushions, but it's mostly in how the nose of the cushions differ when it comes to the effects of spin and speed, there is a slight difference. No one I've ever installed Artemis cushions for has ever complained, except one person in Arizona. He called me asking why the cushion's were starting to play slow and get real springy....I asked him when the last time he'd hanged the cloth, to which he replied.....not since YOU did the work on my table....years back! So, he had the table recovered and it went back to playing like new again.....so, you see, you're the only one that I ever hear of complaining about the Artemis cushions...and you've had TWO sets installed???
 
Artemis - used by Diamond - German
http://www.artemis-kautschuk.de/en/kontakt.php

Astro Pro - used by Gabriels - French
Was part of Michelin, now Japanese owned
http://www.astrotex.com/index.html

Gabriels uses Kleber on carom tables
http://www.gabrielsbilliards.com/caromtables/imperator-v
Kleber seems to be the same as Kelmatch mentioned in an earlier thread.
Is it also the maker of Astro Pro?

All very confusing


Superspeed
Apparently from whatever company Brunswick chooses from time to time :D

Which one of the three is most suspect?
 
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Scaramouche said:
Artemis - used by Diamond - German
http://www.artemis-kautschuk.de/en/kontakt.php

Astro Pro - used by Gabriels - French
Was part of Michelin, now Japanese owned
http://www.astrotex.com/index.html

Gabriels uses Kleber on carom tables
http://www.gabrielsbilliards.com/caromtables/imperator-v
Kleber seems to be the same as Kelmatch mentioned in an earlier thread.
Is it also the maker of Astro Pro?

All very confusing


Superspeed
Apparently from whatever company Brunswick chooses from time to time :D

Which one of the three is most suspect?
Click to expand...
Gabriel uses Artemis pool K66 cushions on their pocket pool tables, I've worked on enough of them to know.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
not looking to stir anything up but, actually, the Diamond at JA's room in Marietta is their "pro" table, number one when you walk in the door and not for general public's use.

best,
brian kc
Click to expand...


-

The action table in JA's room is a GC4 by mark gregory. < the same specs that made Greg Sullivan change the rails on diamond tables.
There's no diamond pool tables in JA's poolroom.< not in years.

Check out the LED pool table light, mark has been building some sweet lights and tables from square1!
Below is the action table in Johnny Archers poolroom.


I talked to mark earlier and I asked if he would post on AZB, he said he will not waste another moment of his time with the nonsense on the internet.



Rob.M
 
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dontlitethat said:
-

The action table in JA's room is a GC4 by mark gregory. < the same specs that made Greg Sullivan change the rails on diamond tables.
There's no diamond pool tables in JA's poolroom.< not in years.

Check out the LED pool table light, mark has been building some sweet lights and tables from square1!
Below is the action table in Johnny Archers poolroom.


I talked to mark earlier and I asked if he would post on AZB, he said he will not waste another moment of his time with the nonsense on the internet.



Rob.M
Click to expand...
Sorry, but Mark didn't provide the specs to Diamond which made the change from red label to blue, I did plain and simple, I fact I'm the one that designed the power tool that made it possible to cut a sub rail thickness to an exact 1 11/16 " thick...before I ever told Mark about it. So, don't believe everything you hear.
 
realkingcobra said:
Sorry, but Mark didn't provide the specs to Diamond which made the change from red label to blue, I did plain and simple, I fact I'm the one that designed the power tool that made it possible to cut a sub rail thickness to an exact 1 11/16 " thick...before I ever told Mark about it. So, don't believe everything you hear.
Click to expand...

I talked on the phone with Mark a year or so ago. Paraphrasing, because I can't remember exactly the words Mark used, he said something like the below in blue:

Greg Sullivan tried out a table that I just finished and he loved it. The table used the Artemis cushions. Greg said it was the best table he ever played on. He asked me for the specs, so he could change the Diamond design over to it. But when all was said and done, he didn't use my exact specs.

So, I guess we have Glen to thank for messing up Mark's specs and that they did not become the blue label? LOL
 
iusedtoberich said:
I talked on the phone with Mark a year or so ago. Paraphrasing, because I can't remember exactly the words Mark used, he said something like the below in blue:

Greg Sullivan tried out a table that I just finished and he loved it. The table used the Artemis cushions. Greg said it was the best table he ever played on. He asked me for the specs, so he could change the Diamond design over to it. But when all was said and done, he didn't use my exact specs.

So, I guess we have Glen to thank for messing up Mark's specs and that they did not become the blue label? LOL
Click to expand...

Believe what you want, but Mark couldn't produce a repeatable sub rail thickness until I told him how to do it, so without that knowledge I gave Mark in the first place I guess he couldn't have built great playing rails all the time now could he....he still uses the same machine today.
 
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