you guys are so gullible
Gold Crown IV Cushions/Replacements
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
- Start date
you guys are so gullible
They changed when they brought out their new line, and their new web site
http://www.gabrielsbilliards.com/
Astro Pro instead of Artemis
http://www.gabrielsbilliards.com/pooltables/sentinel
Sentinel is equipped with our own pocket-liners, which have a minimum lifespan of 5 years, even in a commercial environment! Astro Pro rubbers in K66 profile
Granite instead of slate
http://www.gabrielsbilliards.com/configurator/imperator_v
Granite playingfield, 3 pieces, 50 or 60 mm
Granite Legs!!!
http://www.gabrielsbilliards.com/pooltables/compare
4 solid Granite legs
And now you are up-to-date.
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More than slight, but also very important. 9 ball is fine on Artemis rails. One Pocket and Banks are notbfine on Artemis rails. It takes a substantial adjustment to get some of the throw banks and multi-rail banks back in line. You also need to bank with much less pace on a Diamond.
Diamond tables are great, I love the pocket geometry and how they play in general, but the rails are not a banker's best friend.
I disagree.
Skylar Woodward wins DCC Banks Division in a show of banking skill the likes of which had Freddy The Beard saying in all his years he *never* saw a display anything like it.
It was on a Diamond, of course.
The equipment was def not holding Sky back.
best,
brian kc
Ok, I am going to show my lack of intelligence here.
What exactly is the sub-rail? And is there a diagram out there somewhere that shows everything you need to know about rails?
DCP
What exactly is the sub-rail? And is there a diagram out there somewhere that shows everything you need to know about rails?
DCP
Mark and I have agreed to those words for years, as I said, we talk all the time. And for what it's worth, Diamond is always looking to improve and if and when they decide to change to a new cushion, they will, but in the mean time, I have no complaints about what they are currently building.
The sub rail is the wooden part of the rail that the cushion's mount to.
What words? That Artemis banks short and is better installed upside down?
Super Soeed plays truer?
That they're billiard cushions and have a little different play....and for what it's worth, if you want to keep saying the cushion's bank short....I can design the damn sub rails to make them bank long too....not short, so stop trying to corner me into agreeing with Mark about upside down, right side up, bank short, springy or anything else....YOUR TABLE DOES NOT REPRESENT ALL THE OTHER TABLES THAT HAVE ARTEMIS CUSHIONS ON THEM. You don't hear MY customers complaining about how their tables play....with the exact same cushions you have on YOUR pool table....now, why do you suppose that is???
And here's a little thought for you to ponder about the hump side up on the Artemis cushions....when the cloth breaks in, the cushion's start pinching the balls when they're banked into the rails, which also causes the speed of the table to slow down drastically...Baca use the nose of the cushions lift up when the balls are banked into them...trapping the balls!!!!!
PS, which is why I don't install the Artemis cushions hump side up!
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=210290&highlight=tedantle
The link above shows my GC III/IV work done back in 2010 or so. Glenn re-finished my rails and replaced the rubber with Artemis Intercontinental. He had me buy it before he arrived. The sub-rails are shown at various stages of extension and finish.
Glen is a real pool player that loves the game and the equipment. IMO he would be an expert in any vocation he chose. Yes he works for/with Diamond. If he wasn't as talented as he is, why would they continue the relationship? And why would RKC stay if they weren't the best? Another of his talents is historic table restoration.
He is an excellent pool player and that is why he is an expert table mechanic. As he wrote earlier, (i.e. I will paraphrase) a person needs to know the answers to the main challenges before he hires someone to do the work. That is the basis of any job interview in any industry. - How can you know if the guy is an expert or poser?
In my experience, anyone in any field that is an expert appears to be arrogant.... often. Doctors, lawyers to mention two. RKC fits that mold.
After he worked on my table we played on it for a while. He had a chance to show me a double jump shot. Jumping a ball into a ball making the object ball jump as well. I know enough to realize that is one of the MANY little things he knows. What was funny is that the stick he was playing with had a tip/Ferrel that was loose. He's an old road player know doubt. Straight pool was his favorite starting out.
What impressed me about Glenn is the passion he has for what he does. He loves to share his knowledge. He is a perfectionist above all. The work he does is hard physical labor. I know, because I helped him. I was there every step of the way. A couple of guys came in from Ohio just to observe his technique and equipment that he uses. Specialized equipment that he built himself, to consistently plain sub rail systems accurately. He calls it Diamondizing Gold Crowns. His friends at Diamond were not excited about that part of his work.
I have also worked with Jerimy Chambers here in Chicago. He is hands down, the best in the area.
On another note, I have played with a top rated world player that said he didn't like the way Diamonds bank.
If Glenn says "Mark" is capable of accurately adjusting your GC rail systems, and you like Diamonds.... I'd go for it.
So make a decision. If you like the way Diamonds play, buy one or have your sub rials extended and re plained. If not shim the rails you have. Done.
I think I am about ready to contact my mechanic and get the ball rolling with this.
r/DCP
r/DCP
I have a GC IV, and was going to have the cushions replaced along with some other work. I now find out that the newer SS cushions are junk, and that Artemis is bad for banking. I think I will stick with the old cushions for now, and as far as tightening the pockets? I'm just going to get some bigger balls!
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[UtheyTE=tim913;5420265]I have a GC IV, and was going to have the cushions replaced along with some other work. I now find out that the newer SS cushions are junk, and that Artemis is bad for banking. I think I will stick with the old cushions for now, and as far as tightening the pockets? I'm just going to get some bigger balls![/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but I didn't get that memo on the Super Speed cushions....hang on a second, I'll check with Mark Gregory to see if HE received a memo on them.....NOPE, he didn't either, in fact...he told me they're his favorite cushions to install on Brunswick tables. I'll check the 6 sets I have and see if any of them are junk....nope, all fine on my end. Well, I guess then all I can say is....you must be listening to the experts here on AZB....that's why they're called experts....only thing is, between you and I...they don't have a clue about what they're talking about....and if a so called pool table mechanic told you that....it's because they don't want to spend the money to buy SS cushions when they can get cheaper ones for about $35 that they feel will do the same job....and pocket the difference in profit.
And PS...if a pool table mechanic told you that, save yourself some money and just send your rails to Mark and have them done right the first time. I'd offer my services as well, but I'm in the middle of moving my shop to Spokane, Wa right now.
I'm sorry, but I didn't get that memo on the Super Speed cushions....hang on a second, I'll check with Mark Gregory to see if HE received a memo on them.....NOPE, he didn't either, in fact...he told me they're his favorite cushions to install on Brunswick tables. I'll check the 6 sets I have and see if any of them are junk....nope, all fine on my end. Well, I guess then all I can say is....you must be listening to the experts here on AZB....that's why they're called experts....only thing is, between you and I...they don't have a clue about what they're talking about....and if a so called pool table mechanic told you that....it's because they don't want to spend the money to buy SS cushions when they can get cheaper ones for about $35 that they feel will do the same job....and pocket the difference in profit.
And PS...if a pool table mechanic told you that, save yourself some money and just send your rails to Mark and have them done right the first time. I'd offer my services as well, but I'm in the middle of moving my shop to Spokane, Wa right now.
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With the last RKC post just above this one, now would be a good time for me to clarify.
My 2 bad experiences with Brunswick ss cushions (posted earlier in this thread) were approx 7 and 8 years ago. New ss cushions went hard in about a year, twice. They were crap quality made in China and I wasn't gonna get fooled again.
Fast forward to this thread and I now see that according to Mark Gregory & Glen, the superspeeds these days are back to being good quality so keep this in mind when making your decisions.
Thx for the updated info RKC. :thumbup:
best,
brian kc
My 2 bad experiences with Brunswick ss cushions (posted earlier in this thread) were approx 7 and 8 years ago. New ss cushions went hard in about a year, twice. They were crap quality made in China and I wasn't gonna get fooled again.
Fast forward to this thread and I now see that according to Mark Gregory & Glen, the superspeeds these days are back to being good quality so keep this in mind when making your decisions.
Thx for the updated info RKC. :thumbup:
best,
brian kc
I think it's really hard to tell whether a cushion is junk until it's been on the table for 10 years.
About 20 years ago four pool halls opened in this area all with GC IIIs. Within about 5 years the cushions started to go bad, beginning with deadish and going all the way to hard as a rock. Really, like pottery.
One room that had 24 tables gradually had to replace 40 to 60 cushion sections. I suppose they should have replaced all of the cushions on each table together but they only did what they had to do.
The cushions were not covered by any kind of warranty.
One of the rooms is phasing in European rubber now on their GC IIIs because they don't want any more surprises.
Keep this in mind when making your decisions.
A positive modern Super Speed report here...
My local poolroom, Drexeline Billiards in PA, bought 18 brand new GC4 tables in the early 2000's.
The four one pocket tables had the rubbers replaced last year, but only to tighten the pockets with extended rails instead of using the triple shims that were on those tables before. The Super Speed rubber never went bad.
All the other 14 tables in the room have the original rubber. I've been playing in this room all these years, and the rails play the same now as when they were brand new, IMO. The rails also bounce about the same when the cloth is new, compared to when the cloth is old.
My local poolroom, Drexeline Billiards in PA, bought 18 brand new GC4 tables in the early 2000's.
The four one pocket tables had the rubbers replaced last year, but only to tighten the pockets with extended rails instead of using the triple shims that were on those tables before. The Super Speed rubber never went bad.
All the other 14 tables in the room have the original rubber. I've been playing in this room all these years, and the rails play the same now as when they were brand new, IMO. The rails also bounce about the same when the cloth is new, compared to when the cloth is old.
The only advice I received when I got my GCIII from the owners of poolrooms was not to change from the original cushions unless I absolutely had to.
Their opinion was there wasn't an "exact" replacement, and while others would work, they would not play as the original Brunswick Super Speed cushions.
The rails on mine are fine, and while I am not sure about the age of the table, I suspect it to be built in the 1970's.
After reading the posts, I think the best advice was not to change unless I absolutely had to change. I am happy about not needing to change the cushions, and I am not looking forward to when that time comes that I "have to".
Best of rolls to all,
Ken
Their opinion was there wasn't an "exact" replacement, and while others would work, they would not play as the original Brunswick Super Speed cushions.
The rails on mine are fine, and while I am not sure about the age of the table, I suspect it to be built in the 1970's.
After reading the posts, I think the best advice was not to change unless I absolutely had to change. I am happy about not needing to change the cushions, and I am not looking forward to when that time comes that I "have to".
Best of rolls to all,
Ken