got sharked, but is it even legal?

oldplayer

oldplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
our team had our 9 ball match last night. we won 10-9 so that was good, but i lost a game because of being sharked. i made the 1,2 and made shape on the 3 ball, a straight in easy shot and only needed to back up about 5 or 6 inches for a straight in 4 ball in the same corner pocket. from there it was a classic lay out and should run the balls. it was a long strectch to reach the CB and my belly was over the 8 ball on the short rail. every table has a ref so he was watching me closely. on the 3rd stroke just before firing, i see a face come into view at table level about 1 foot from my bridge hand, it was my opponent checking to make sure i was not touching the 8 ball with my shirt! :angry: granted, i should have stopped the stroke but i guess i was too committed and scooped the Cb and sent it flying over the 3 ball and off the table. he gets ball in hand and runs the table. was that even legal for him to be at the table, especially that close? unsportsmanlike behavior or what? i am still seething.:angry: so is there a rule against this or what?
 
Shirt?

My first year in my local 8ball tavern league I saw something similar to this. My captain was on a run down to the 8 ball with the cue ball mid table. He bent over and shot the 8 in. Game over right? Wrong! His opponent said his shirt touched one of his balls while he was shooting the 8. It was quite the argument and very unsportsman like. Although his shirt touched a ball nobody saw the ball in question move and it had nothing to do with my captain firing that 8 in but he got the loss. I'm sure he could've filed a grievance with our league officials and would've won but he just dropped the issue and we all lost some respect for that guy. Also, I played on that team for 7 years after that and my captain tucked his shirt in every Monday night. The nit whit I'm talking about was one of the better players in the area but everyone who was there looked at him different after that night.
 
oldplayer said:
every table has a ref so he was watching me closely. on the 3rd stroke just before firing, i see a face come into view at table level about 1 foot from my bridge hand, it was my opponent checking to make sure i was not touching the 8 ball with my shirt! was that even legal for him to be at the table, especially that close? unsportsmanlike behavior or what? i am still seething.:angry: so is there a rule against this or what?
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Per the WPA rules:
25. Remaining in Player’s Chair
The non-shooting player should remain in his designated chair while his opponent is at the table. Should a player need to leave the playing area during matches, he must request and receive permission from the referee. Should a player leave the playing area without the permission of the referee, it will be treated like unsportsmanlike conduct.​

With a referee present, your opponent should have remained in his chair. If a referee is not present, then your opponent should ask for another impartial player(s) to watch the shot.

If another player isn't available to watch the shot, your opponent is certainly entitled to watch the shot from a respectful distance. If it's a close call though, don't be surprised if the shooter gets the benefit of the doubt as there is no one else to resolve it.

Regarding post #2 from Deadnutz, if your shirt contacts a ball I'm going to assume that you moved it. If you're the shooting player, don't put yourself in the position of having your shirt inadvertently move a ball. If necessary, use a rake. If a ball other than the cue ball is moved, you may be able to have its position restored. Per the WPA rules:
20. Cue ball fouls only
If there is no referee presiding over a match, it may be played using cue ball fouls only. That is, touching or moving any ball other than the cue ball would not be a foul unless it changes the outcome of the shot by either touching another ball or having any ball, including the cue ball, going through the area originally occupied by the moved ball. If this does not happen, then the opposing player must be given the option of either leaving the ball where it lies or replacing the ball as near as possible to its original position to the agreement of both players. If a player shoots without giving his opponent the option to replace, it will be a foul resulting in cue ball in hand for the opponent.​
 
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hmmm

oldplayer said:
our team had our 9 ball match last night. we won 10-9 so that was good, but i lost a game because of being sharked. i made the 1,2 and made shape on the 3 ball, a straight in easy shot and only needed to back up about 5 or 6 inches for a straight in 4 ball in the same corner pocket. from there it was a classic lay out and should run the balls. it was a long strectch to reach the CB and my belly was over the 8 ball on the short rail. every table has a ref so he was watching me closely. on the 3rd stroke just before firing, i see a face come into view at table level about 1 foot from my bridge hand, it was my opponent checking to make sure i was not touching the 8 ball with my shirt! :angry: granted, i should have stopped the stroke but i guess i was too committed and scooped the Cb and sent it flying over the 3 ball and off the table. he gets ball in hand and runs the table. was that even legal for him to be at the table, especially that close? unsportsmanlike behavior or what? i am still seething.:angry: so is there a rule against this or what?
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I'm still trying to figure out the "every table has a ref" scenario.... really?? are they paid by the league, are they other players taking turns to ref the matches?? interesting to say the least...
 
If you knew that it was going to be touch and go with the clothing and reaching, why didn't you use the rest?
 
first, my shirt did not touch the ball.
second, the referrees volunteer their time and he was within 3 feet of the table observing. the opponent had maybe too many beers but i think the ref should have sent him back to the chair when he saw him approach the table, especially within one foot of the rail! :angry:
third, i should have stopped the last stroke.
forth, so there is no rule about allowing me to "cold cock" the guy? :rolleyes:
 
From the World Standardized Rules of Pocket Billiards, General Rules:

3.41 INTERFERENCE
If the non-shooting player distracts his opponent or interferes with his play, he has fouled. If a player shoots out of turn, or moves any ball except during his inning, it is considered to be interference.

Stop your stroke. Call a foul. Ball in hand.

Or

If as you say, his face is near your bridge hand, smack him across the face with your shaft and say oops, you scared me.

I would most likely do both.
 
Let's put an end to this with the simplest rule of all. When a ref is being used no matter the situation whether its tournament or league his/her call is final. So no matter what your opponet should NOT have been watching at all because it doesn't matter if he seen something different or not if the ref didn't see it, it doesnt matter. On another note...if your using refs then why wasnt a foul called on your opponet if it all played out the way you described it and maybe even a forfeit based on unsportsmanlike conduct? Because the way you described it quite clearly was inappropriate.
 
simply put, i am the ONLY gringo in the match of some 30 players, 4 refs & approximately 100 people in the place. that may sum it up. maybe i am lucky to survive at all! but thanks to everyone for the input. now i know the rules and have other options too. (whacking for example)
 
What league is this??

Was it on a bar box??

And if you guys won the match than why care?? I mean i get where you are coming from but this is a league match.

Is he a player and should've know better or just some week in week out league banger???
 
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PoolSharkAllen said:
Per the WPA rules:
25. Remaining in Player’s Chair
The non-shooting player should remain in his designated chair while his opponent is at the table. Should a player need to leave the playing area during matches, he must request and receive permission from the referee. Should a player leave the playing area without the permission of the referee, it will be treated like unsportsmanlike conduct.​

With a referee present, your opponent should have remained in his chair. If a referee is not present, then your opponent should ask for another impartial player(s) to watch the shot.

If another player isn't available to watch the shot, your opponent is certainly entitled to watch the shot from a respectful distance. If it's a close call though, don't be surprised if the shooter gets the benefit of the doubt as there is no one else to resolve it.

Regarding post #2 from Deadnutz, if your shirt contacts a ball I'm going to assume that you moved it. If you're the shooting player, don't put yourself in the position of having your shirt inadvertently move a ball. If necessary, use a rake. If a ball other than the cue ball is moved, you may be able to have its position restored. Per the WPA rules:
20. Cue ball fouls only
If there is no referee presiding over a match, it may be played using cue ball fouls only. That is, touching or moving any ball other than the cue ball would not be a foul unless it changes the outcome of the shot by either touching another ball or having any ball, including the cue ball, going through the area originally occupied by the moved ball. If this does not happen, then the opposing player must be given the option of either leaving the ball where it lies or replacing the ball as near as possible to its original position to the agreement of both players. If a player shoots without giving his opponent the option to replace, it will be a foul resulting in cue ball in hand for the opponent.​
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These are great WORLD STANDARD rules but he said this is a league. What league im not sure so you would have to find out. APA, BCA, TAP, House, Bar League, Etc...

In no way am I ribbing you for your post but you have to remember that this certain shark attack was probably a banger and didnt know any better. Yes it was un-sportman like if he KNEW better... Overall I think its poor form but he couldve unknowlingly did this...
 
i guess because i try to follow rules i expect others to do the same. let's call him a "banger" and probably drank too much also. just wanted to be armed with the rules for next time. thanks for all the input. still want to whack though. :grin:
 
People get out of their chairs and look at shots all the time, and yes, sometimes when a ref is present (altho rare).

I don't think it's a foul tho, in my opinion. He didn't deliberately do it. Plus, hardly any TD or leagues ever call fouls on unsportsmanlike conduct. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

Does the league specifically say "if you don't remain in your seat it's a foul?"

I think for next time try to stop yourself before you shoot, and then ask him to sit down. Or, just try to stop yourself before you shoot and look at him rudely, lol.
 
I believe that every time that you feel that you should stop to stand back up and re-load, then you need to make it a habit to do so. I know that I screw up the following shot 99% of the time when I get distracted, etc and have that mental "I should stand up" thought. Watch the pros...they will stop EVERY time and re-focus.

Joe
 
bad sport

oldplayer said:
first, my shirt did not touch the ball.
second, the referrees volunteer their time and he was within 3 feet of the table observing. the opponent had maybe too many beers but i think the ref should have sent him back to the chair when he saw him approach the table, especially within one foot of the rail! :angry:
third, i should have stopped the last stroke.
forth, so there is no rule about allowing me to "cold cock" the guy? :rolleyes:
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you should have put your foot in his ars :thumbup: i HATE SORE LOSERS:mad:
 
akaTrigger
"People get out of their chairs and look at shots all the time, and yes, sometimes when a ref is present (altho rare).

I don't think it's a foul tho, in my opinion. He didn't deliberately do it. Plus, hardly any TD or leagues ever call fouls on unsportsmanlike conduct. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

Does the league specifically say "if you don't remain in your seat it's a foul?"

I think for next time try to stop yourself before you shoot, and then ask him to sit down. Or, just try to stop yourself before you shoot and look at him rudely, lol."

The Voice Of Reason!
 
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oldplayer said:
i guess because i try to follow rules i expect others to do the same. let's call him a "banger" and probably drank too much also. just wanted to be armed with the rules for next time. thanks for all the input. still want to whack though. :grin:
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Are you playing by the World Standardized Rules? There is a set available on-line but I don't know if there is an official translation into Spanish. If those were the rules you were playing by, there is a rule against what your opponent did, as mentioned above or see Rule 6.16 at http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play
 
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