Hal Houle
- Thread starter eze
- Start date
eze said:
The video, sadly, is gone. It was a utube video that has since been pulled.
The pivot ALWAYS comes just prior to pulling the trigger. If you are aligning center to edge your tip is always either inside or outside center depending on the cut. Once lined up you pivot back to center and you're ready.
Regards,
Koop
pbat2751 said:one of these days you'll have to show me this again.
Slow learner.
Anytime man.
As a side note I showed this to a 5 on my team and he is now dangerously close to becoming a 6. I showed it to him a month ago and within that time he has ran more racks than the previous two years combined. :wink:
Roger...Or, you could just make a trip to Cue Tech, and learn S.A.M. from us...which is all about center-to-edge aiming!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Roger Long said:Well, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so maybe I'd better go back and study it until I find that simplicity.
Pat...You've been offered the opportunity to learn S.A.M., which is based around center-to-edge aiming. So far you've declined...yet you feel like you can badmouth it, without knowing about it. 
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Patrick Johnson said:
Colin Colenso said:
No. I don't adjust anything. At least mentally I dont.
Scott Lee said:Pat...You've been offered the opportunity to learn S.A.M., which is based around center-to-edge aiming. So far you've declined...yet you feel like you can badmouth it, without knowing about it.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Someone had their eyes opened, didn't they
Hello everyone,
I was taught the Center to Edge System by a BCA Master Instructor who spoke nothing but good about Mr. Houle. I really want this system to work for me but I still have some problems with it and revert back to the equal opposite system ( J. Reid / J. Tucker ) or parallel lines/contact points if you will. I also think the equal opposite method is great because it is quite simpe to see the answers, especially with Joe T's #s that correspond to the diamonds. The problem is the delivery of it, connecting those contact points while staying on the true shot line, if you know what I mean. I have I think two ways of doing this and I can mix them up at any given time and it's over when that happens. When I play my best while I use the equal system, I'm not sure how I'm connecting those points, I just do it and barely miss. Then there are the days that are less then satisfactory and then I remember Hal Houle system
Today I tried the C to E system and I was potting long difficult cuts with ease and loving it and then setting up easier cuts and missing????????? Then it started a pattern make a few, miss a few with relatively the same shot angle? When I first learnt the system I had a difficulty with the whole thick/thin 30 degree placement BEFORE the pivot, but I think I have pretty much gotten it now. I believe my trouble might be with how much to pivot or perfectly lining up a 1/2 ball hit along with the exact pre pivot bridge placement, again maybe both! Like I have said I have nailed tough ones with ease but then missed a good amount by a good couple of inches. I also tried to pivot in the air so I can build my stance around that rather then throwing out my stroke arm alignment, which I think is ideal, however I can see how this may cause additional errors at first. Also did any of you Houligans find it difficult at first shooting anything but dead center with the C to E system? Did you guys find it very uncomfortable using english with the system? Even when I make a nice one, my speed control and positioning is out. I kind of wish someone had a spin on this system that I could really grasp.
Take care everbody and remember we all love this game
J.W.
I was taught the Center to Edge System by a BCA Master Instructor who spoke nothing but good about Mr. Houle. I really want this system to work for me but I still have some problems with it and revert back to the equal opposite system ( J. Reid / J. Tucker ) or parallel lines/contact points if you will. I also think the equal opposite method is great because it is quite simpe to see the answers, especially with Joe T's #s that correspond to the diamonds. The problem is the delivery of it, connecting those contact points while staying on the true shot line, if you know what I mean. I have I think two ways of doing this and I can mix them up at any given time and it's over when that happens. When I play my best while I use the equal system, I'm not sure how I'm connecting those points, I just do it and barely miss. Then there are the days that are less then satisfactory and then I remember Hal Houle system
Today I tried the C to E system and I was potting long difficult cuts with ease and loving it and then setting up easier cuts and missing????????? Then it started a pattern make a few, miss a few with relatively the same shot angle? When I first learnt the system I had a difficulty with the whole thick/thin 30 degree placement BEFORE the pivot, but I think I have pretty much gotten it now. I believe my trouble might be with how much to pivot or perfectly lining up a 1/2 ball hit along with the exact pre pivot bridge placement, again maybe both! Like I have said I have nailed tough ones with ease but then missed a good amount by a good couple of inches. I also tried to pivot in the air so I can build my stance around that rather then throwing out my stroke arm alignment, which I think is ideal, however I can see how this may cause additional errors at first. Also did any of you Houligans find it difficult at first shooting anything but dead center with the C to E system? Did you guys find it very uncomfortable using english with the system? Even when I make a nice one, my speed control and positioning is out. I kind of wish someone had a spin on this system that I could really grasp.
Take care everbody and remember we all love this game
J.W.
JAW725 said:Also did any of you Houligans find it difficult at first shooting anything but dead center with the C to E system? Did you guys find it very uncomfortable using english with the system? Even when I make a nice one, my speed control and positioning is out. I kind of wish someone had a spin on this system that I could really grasp.
Take care everbody and remember we all love this game
J.W.
It does take a bit of time to get used to it, there is no doubt. The one thing Hal stressed and is extremely important is getting your head over the line of sight. Sometimes you think you have it lined up right but you're a little off because your head isn't over the line. Give it a shot and if you need any help let me know.
Regards,
Koop
JAW725 said:Hello everyone,
I was taught the Center to Edge System by a BCA Master Instructor who spoke nothing but good about Mr. Houle. I really want this system to work for me but I still have some problems with it and revert back to the equal opposite system ( J. Reid / J. Tucker ) or parallel lines/contact points if you will. I also think the equal opposite method is great because it is quite simpe to see the answers, especially with Joe T's #s that correspond to the diamonds. The problem is the delivery of it, connecting those contact points while staying on the true shot line, if you know what I mean. I have I think two ways of doing this and I can mix them up at any given time and it's over when that happens. When I play my best while I use the equal system, I'm not sure how I'm connecting those points, I just do it and barely miss. Then there are the days that are less then satisfactory and then I remember Hal Houle system
Today I tried the C to E system and I was potting long difficult cuts with ease and loving it and then setting up easier cuts and missing????????? Then it started a pattern make a few, miss a few with relatively the same shot angle? When I first learnt the system I had a difficulty with the whole thick/thin 30 degree placement BEFORE the pivot, but I think I have pretty much gotten it now. I believe my trouble might be with how much to pivot or perfectly lining up a 1/2 ball hit along with the exact pre pivot bridge placement, again maybe both! Like I have said I have nailed tough ones with ease but then missed a good amount by a good couple of inches. I also tried to pivot in the air so I can build my stance around that rather then throwing out my stroke arm alignment, which I think is ideal, however I can see how this may cause additional errors at first. Also did any of you Houligans find it difficult at first shooting anything but dead center with the C to E system? Did you guys find it very uncomfortable using english with the system? Even when I make a nice one, my speed control and positioning is out. I kind of wish someone had a spin on this system that I could really grasp.
Take care everbody and remember we all love this game
J.W.
I think the only advice I can give is to really make sure you're seeing that line correctly. If you perceive to see it (when you're really not), you'll get frustrated. A lot must be taken into consideration. The primary factor is your ability to recognize the center of the OB on a line. Perception (and dominant eye sighting) can lead you astray.
The method that I have found to work the best is to not really consider the CB center. I sight each CB edge to OB edge and rotate around the shot until each line is congruent. Essentially, I envision an isosceles triangle. For me, distinguishing two equal distances is easier than figuring the center of a solid object.
When you get good at seeing that line, balls just go...and go from everywhere. No matter what the angle is. JoeyA said it best. It takes you 5 mins to learn the system, but it's not a magic pill. It took me a year to really, really feel comfy with it. It's eliminated a lot of variation from my game. Made me much more consistent.
I'm not above asking the same question twice.I would however like an answer or opinion as to why not.
SpiderWebComm said:
Do you really mean the center of the OB? I thought it was only the edge he teaches?
Is this anything like what you're describing? Thanks.
JAW725 said:
The two proper contact points must connect to make the shot, but think about this....
You really only need to sense one of the contact points. If you can sense where the front of the CB contact point is, all you have to do is sense how to touch that point to the OB. There's no other place it can touch except the proper point on the OB. This OB point would automatically correspond.
Same goes for the contact point on the OB. It can't be touched by anything other than the proper point on the CB. So grazing/touching/rubbing the OB contact point automatically connects the proper CB contact point.
I know this seems obvious, but it may be a useful reduction of the mental process of aiming this way.
JoeyA said:
Giving EZE the benefit of a doubt - that he isn't lined up with the center of the CB on the line going to the left edge of the OB. Let's assume that he is and he also has his cue parallel to that line to the right of center of the CB. The line up of the cue would then be with the tip on the right side of the CB (as he describes) and the cue aiming to the right of the left edge of the OB by the same distance (parallel to the center of the CB going to the left edge of the OB.
If he leaves his bridge hand stationary and moves the butt of the cue to the right of his body (assume he is stroking with his right hand) so that the tip moves from the right side of the CB to the center of the CB - he may or may not then be aimed at the left edge of the OB - he could even be aimed to the left of the left edge of the OB which would allow him to cut the OB more than a "half hit" - which is necessary to cut the OB thin going to the right.
Depending on how much more than a "half hit" he would accomplish would depend on how far to the right of the center of the CB he starts at - the farther his tip is to the right of the center of the CB - when he moves the butt of the cue (BHE) so that the tip of the cue is now aiming through the center of the CB - the farther to the left/away from the left edge of the OB which would result in a thinner cut say up to < 90 degrees.
The trick is seems is how far from the center of the CB to start for a given cut angle - worth a try.
Last edited:
Colin Colenso said:
Colin, there have been SO MANY posts on this system that it has become a hodge podge.
And in fact, there are others who have taken the basic "center to edge" system pioneered by Mr. Houle and have added their own ways of both executing and TEACHING the method.
One such person is Stan Shuffett a universally respected pool instructor, who was also a teacher by profession and there is MUCH about the system that needs to be taught, not just talked about.
But one thing you said demonstrates to me...again with respect, that you do not fully understand the method...at least not the one being taught by Stan. You said "center ball to edge produces only one angle."
What you are missing is that the center to edge alignment is just ONE COMPONENT of the system which, in and of itself, is of course of little value.
When the other components of the system are brought to bear, then the angles DO change.
I am not going to go into the methodology, first because I have just recently been working to adopt it and secondly, because I would not discuss the proprietary details that I learn from personal sessions with top instructors like Stan.
For those who say that ANYTHING in the game of pool must be "simple" in order to be of value, all I can say is that I most strongly disagree.
But neither is the method as is being taught to me by Stan particularly complicated to uderstand. ADOPTING it is another matter.
You wrote that you think the system may not really work and that players make "automatic intuitive adjustments." That is TRUE...BUT...those adjustments tend to screw the system up not make it better.
It takes time to TRUST the system and to STOP making intuitive adjustments.
I most strongly urge anyone who is deadly serious about improving their game to book some instruction time with Stan Shuffett.
I know for a fact that Stevie Moore recently did...and then won the next two tournaments he played in!!
If the proof is in the pudding...then there's the pudding.
Respectfully,
Jim
btw: I have posted a new thread which attempts to explain and analyse the Houlian adjustment method of Center-to-Edge aiming as discussed here:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=106630
Hope some of the Houlians or CtoE'rs can compare this to what they are using or make other comments on the analysis.
Colin
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=106630
Hope some of the Houlians or CtoE'rs can compare this to what they are using or make other comments on the analysis.
Colin
Jim,av84fun said:
It's pretty clear that there is a range of methodologies for interpreting / applying and adjusting to these type of systems.
I've diagrammed one adjustment method in the thread I linked to above that raises some of the points you mentioned above.
Would be interested in how my analysis compares to what you have recently learned.
Colin
Patrick Johnson said:
Patrick,
The short answer is no because I consider myself in the process of learning the aiming system. It is and requires a committment that is not easy to do when you have aimed the way I have for all these years. I'm not being evasive. I just don't feel qualified to teach the system and out of courtesy for my instructor I'll probably simply direct people to him when I have completed my studies. There are actually multiple stages that you can go through. Many people seldom go past stage one.
I believe that MANY professional pool players actually use this system but at a very advanced stage whereby a lot of what they do looks to be instinctive most of the time, and is.
One thing is that the manual pivoting that is an integral part of the aiming system in the first stage is not a part of the system in the latter stages.
JoeyA
I just read every post. What the hell are you talking about. I am so confused now I am going to take up knitting. The guy that put the pool table up with the balls and lines would be good if I knew why he had them so you couldn't make that shot. Would one of you guys that know what is going on do a lesson on the pool table graphic so I can see what you all are talking about.
Thank you
Dwight
Thank you
Dwight