Pre-stroke pivoting is all about placement of your bridge hand, it is hard to detect. But it is done alot more than most people believe.
Hal Houle
- Thread starter eze
- Start date
Something tells me that you're trying too hard and making it more complicated than if should be. I was able to grasp Hal's system over the phone and it works for me. It ain't magic, but it does work despite all the naysayers. Call Hal again and have him walk you through it if you can't get it.
Like any other system, for me at least, I still have to focus and concentrate.
Like any other system, for me at least, I still have to focus and concentrate.
aiming systems
No aiming system is perfect (other than "just seeing the angle" and "just knowing how to adjust for all factors").
Regards,
Dave
FYI, I have lots of information about aiming systems, including Hal's system, here:eze said:
No aiming system is perfect (other than "just seeing the angle" and "just knowing how to adjust for all factors").
Regards,
Dave
i was just showed a sysem like this by pro he is a friend of a friend I dont know him very good, but the showed me and it it tricky, we only had a few minutes they were at my house( the pro is a friend of my friend who stayed with me) and had to go, i'd like to spend more time on this, he likes it for super thin cuts-something that are difficult for me. I have alot to learn, even if you dont use it understanding it is still good.
Dr Dave this is not the system Hal was talking about.He told me there
are only two shots, thick are thin.For thin shots say to the right
you place the tip on right side of cb and aim center of cb at left
edge of ob and pivot back to center for a thick shot with little
angle to the right you place the tip on left side of cb and aim center
of cb at left edge of cb and pivot back to center.rukiddingme i
think what you are saying is right .I use ronv swivel and pivot
system quite a bit and when i line up with the cb im standing up
and i place my bridge hand about two cb away from the cb kind of
like Bustamante whether im putting my tip on left side of cb or
rightside when i start to go down on my shot the swivel or pivot take
place on the way down ,so it pretty much not noticable .
are only two shots, thick are thin.For thin shots say to the right
you place the tip on right side of cb and aim center of cb at left
edge of ob and pivot back to center for a thick shot with little
angle to the right you place the tip on left side of cb and aim center
of cb at left edge of cb and pivot back to center.rukiddingme i
think what you are saying is right .I use ronv swivel and pivot
system quite a bit and when i line up with the cb im standing up
and i place my bridge hand about two cb away from the cb kind of
like Bustamante whether im putting my tip on left side of cb or
rightside when i start to go down on my shot the swivel or pivot take
place on the way down ,so it pretty much not noticable .
I didn't show it to you but have written about it often on this forum.JoeyInCali said:
Yes...for very thin cuts, but those that could possibly be over-cut...using a HAIR of inside (basically to guarantee that you don't get any outside and a bit of squirt) use a center ball aim with the tip nearly on the CB.
Align the right edge of the tip to the left edge of the OB...ZERO overlap. Stroke back and thru as smoothly as possible. Deadly.
For cuts that cannot possibly be over-cut, do the above with a 1 tip radius offset from the edge of the OB.
The problem with this shot is that if the OB is more than a diamond from the pocket, you will fan it SO thin that you can't get enough OB roll unless you stroke with 3 table-length CB roll pace which risks missing.
But when you miss, you will more likely than not come back off the rail and clip the OB to avoid a foul.
I can't imagine a more precise way to shott very thin cuts.
Regards,
Jim
BHE, FHE, pivot length
I also have more info about aim compensation with English here:
Regards,
Dave
FYI to those interested in back-hand-English (BHE), I have good illustrations and descriptions of BHE, FHE, and cue pivot points here:Jaden said:
I also have more info about aim compensation with English here:
Regards,
Dave
Pii said:
It did, indeed. Just guessing here, but on shots like the op is talking about, I think I had a tendency at first, to try to cut the shot too thin instead of the way Hal described it to me. I had to concentrate and shoot it just like he said, which is a thicker {to me} hit than I was used to shooting.
Simple fact is that Hal Houle's fractional aiming system does not work with sufficient accuracy for even C-Player needs, if used as described. I know some players use it as a guide and incorporate adjustments and this seems to work for them, but I think this type of system will confuse players more than it will help them.
It is built on incorrect physics. Here is the essence of the problem.
a. The 3 aim points such as Center to Edge really only allow you to play shots at these 3 specific angles, plus or minus a few degrees for pocket width and alignment error. This is far from adequate for top potters.
b. The system takes no account of throw, (nor do ghost ball sytems or clock systems btw). Throw can account for over 12 inches differentiation in the OB target over a distance of 8 foot. So you could hit the supposed perfect contact point for a required shot and miss it by 6 inches either side if you don't understand throw and compensate for it.
This video demonstrates the massive OB angle changes for striking the EXACT same contact point for a range of half ball shots. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-xtzn4vbiQ&NR=1
Colin
It is built on incorrect physics. Here is the essence of the problem.
a. The 3 aim points such as Center to Edge really only allow you to play shots at these 3 specific angles, plus or minus a few degrees for pocket width and alignment error. This is far from adequate for top potters.
b. The system takes no account of throw, (nor do ghost ball sytems or clock systems btw). Throw can account for over 12 inches differentiation in the OB target over a distance of 8 foot. So you could hit the supposed perfect contact point for a required shot and miss it by 6 inches either side if you don't understand throw and compensate for it.
This video demonstrates the massive OB angle changes for striking the EXACT same contact point for a range of half ball shots. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-xtzn4vbiQ&NR=1
Colin
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Colin...You really need to preface your BOLD statements with "IMO"...since this is, indeed only YOUR opinion, and not fact at all. Hal Houle has shared his aiming systems with thousands of players, of all abilities, including top pro players, and they DO work, for many people, quite effectively. Just because you don't like them, gives you no authority, nor privilege, to put them down. I spent a day recently with Hal myself, and recorded our conversations on a dvd for further study. We teach a form of one of Hal's systems (SAM), and it is VERY effective in ALL shot situations. Hal is a real gentleman, with a LOT to share, to anyone who is willing to listen. You might try the same... How about showing some respect for someone more knowledgeable, and much older than you?
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Colin Colenso said:
Scott,Scott Lee said:
I know there are many ready to defend Hal, he's almost untouchable.
But take a look through all his posts, these are not the responses of a polite and informative gentleman. He acts gruff and irrelevant most the time.
Of course, what I write is my opinions. It gets a bit tiresome to add that bit of political correctness to every statement.
When I say fact, I say it in the same way that 2+2=4 is a fact. Certain claims, such that center to edge aiming is sufficient for angles 22-37 degrees are just impossible.
Good luck with your video. I hope someone can do some justice to Hal's so called depth of knowledge. I and many others have been waiting a long time for it. No one seems to be able to explain it in a way that doesn't break the laws of physics.
Colin
screw physics - call HAL
