Hand made cues?

john coloccia said:
I think more importantly, there's no value added for the trouble.

But as a student and/or admirer of all sorts of woodwork, metalwork etc, I can say with some certainty that most things can be done equally well by hand or by machine, and things are usually most easily with a combination of both. If you have some experience and an eye for it, you can usually spot where quality was sacrificed for the sake of using a machine where hand work would be better, and vice versa.

My personal feeling, not just with cues, is if you can't make sharp details (just as an example) because router bits have diameter and you don't feel like/can't/don't want to/whatever finish it off by hand, I'd rather you just skip it. I'd rather have it done right, but imperfectly, than perfectly done by cutting corners. I don't demand absolute perfection, just good craftsmanship and pride. A seasoned guitar builder I know calls it "seeing the hand of the maker." I don't mind that.

edit:
Incidentally, for those who don't know him, you need to check out George Wilson's wood and metal work. He's an amazing craftsman.

And if you really want to get blown away by the artsier side of woodworking, check out Randall Rosenthal's work. There are very few things I see that I think are completely jaw dropping and can't even begin to comprehend just how in the hell it happens. Randall's work does it for me.

http://www.randallrosenthal.com/
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Absolutely agree. Years ago I did a fair amount of woodworking, primarily as a hobby. I did inlay work as well as relief carving. While it was fun and created a means for practicing my skills, I soon discovered that no one was willing to pay for the time and work involved. I do enjoy seeing such beautiful work. Thanks for the references.

Paul
 
JoeyInCali said:
Ok. Which one makes.cues as.good.as Searing or TW?
We are.talking wood.cylinders between centers .
Even manually made.snooker cues need a lathe for.screw install.
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Tw isn't known for good hitting cues since you bring up just wood cylinders. Excellent art though pushes boundaries for decades


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Joey u do realize I'm saying using machines is completely fine correct. I'm just no fan of cnc.

I know there's no added value necessarily that's besides the point.

I'm of course entitled to my opinion.

Not like I look at a searing and say oh what a piece of poo lol. As if
 
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Walkermine said:
Absolutely agree. Years ago I did a fair amount of woodworking, primarily as a hobby. I did inlay work as well as relief carving. While it was fun and created a means for practicing my skills, I soon discovered that no one was willing to pay for the time and work involved. I do enjoy seeing such beautiful work. Thanks for the references.



Paul
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Money isn't really part of my point. If it's about time/profit....cnc all the way of course can't be beat.


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Walkermine said:
Chopdoc said:
Pantograph? I dunno, but drills, chisels, razors, and other hand instruments have certainly been used to make very complex designs.


http://www.palmercollector.com/InlayPage.html

As for the type of design in the Samsara you posted, such multilayered butterflies have certainly been done with saws. I believe those are multiple veneered butterfly splices, not inlays, to get that effect. Could be wrong.

I am not certain but I believe Ron Daniels (Twisted Turtle) does his amazing designs with traditional woodworking tools and not CNC.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=322614


Yes, I agree that it is certainly possible and there are examples to prove it. I also recall the amazing work by Daniels. The Samsara cue is a form of intarsia and was employed to create the faux butterfly look.

My point is that taking a hand-made approach to some of the higher end cues we are seeing today would be impractical and cost prohibited. And yes, I would be very surprised if such hand-made work could stand up under the same level of visual scrutiny that these current cues are subject to. I'm specifically referring to cues having hundreds of pockets and inlays.

I only mentioned pantograph before because it had been mentioned earlier. IMO, Andy Gilbert has been the most successful in pushing that system to its limit. Once you exceed that point, you'll need another cue maker who works well with cnc.

QUOTE]
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Intarsia? Is that akin to marquetry? That's a very old technique in cue making. Very cool! I had no idea. I figured they were butterflies.


Obviously mechanization saves a lot of time and makes it easier to achieve higher tolerances and higher intricacy.

Every method has limitations. Higher levels of various types of intricacy will test those limits of course. Hard to deny that high grade machinery controlled by computers can do better than most methods in many cases.

Personally, I don't feel that the epitome of cue making is necessarily directly proportional to the level of intricacy. So a cue maker using more traditional methods can certainly be a master of the trade and even reach the apex of the field.

When speaking strictly in terms of increasing intricacy, certainly methods of automation such as CNC are invaluable. In addition to customs and higher end cues, look what it did for the Asian imports. You can get some pretty inexpensive cues with fully inlaid designs that in days past would have been decals at similar prices.




.
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greyghost said:
Tw isn't known for good hitting cues since you bring up just wood cylinders. Excellent art though pushes boundaries for decades


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Joey u do realize I'm saying using machines is completely fine correct. I'm just no fan of cnc.

I know there's no added value necessarily that's besides the point.

I'm of course entitled to my opinion.

Not like I look at a searing and say oh what a piece of poo lol. As if
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WHO today still makes cues manually ?
 
JoeyInCali said:
WHO today still makes cues manually ?
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no idea i dont keep up with who started as such or just switched to cnc?

as i've stated before though.....i dont just build cues so for me this is a wider alley....

theres a chit load of people who do stringing and furniture inlay and carving, intarsia, marquetry (and the many styles of marquetry).....that dont use cnc at all.......some large manufacturers, cartier i think does alot of hand work and manual machine work

in forms or craft other than cues certainly.......

ive seen pfd and richard black do marquetry style cues, not sure if and how they were cut out, wouldn't doubt cnc tho????

i dont just do woodwork on cues tho i've made that pretty clear in the past. its not the end all be all or anything, tho i love it of course.
 
Chopdoc said:
Walkermine said:
Intarsia? Is that akin to marquetry? That's a very old technique in cue making. Very cool! I had no idea. I figured they were butterflies.

yes it is but its still an inlay technique, marquetry is an overlay technique. intarsia is an older technique as far as i've ever known. the oldest marquetry is around 500yrs old to my knowledge.


Obviously mechanization saves a lot oyy
Every method has limitations. Higher levels of various types of intricacy will test those limits of course. Hard to deny that high grade machinery controlled by computers can do better than most methods in many cases.

Personally, I don't feel that the epitome of cue making is necessarily directly proportional to the level of intricacy. So a cue maker using more traditional methods can certainly be a master of the trade and even reach the apex of the field.
it cant be, most southwest for ex are pretty plain jane.....again not to pick on TW, but its not like his cues are known as players with some top hit......a scruggs sneaky is though.....that cue right there, not even the scruggs name.....the sneaky he/bob put out pretty much reached that pinnacle.....its THE sneaky pete. a legendary cue without doubt. Plain as plain can be. I dont think those martins are very LOUD either...

When speaking strictly in terms of increasing intricacy, certainly methods of automation such as CNC are invaluable. In addition to customs and higher end cues, look what it did for the Asian imports. You can get some pretty inexpensive cues with fully inlaid designs that in days past would have been decals at similar prices. very true




.
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meucci uses cnc's too.....i wouldn't doubt he didn't use cnc's at one time. They butchered wood just as much then as they do now....arguably worse now than back when......dey purdy doh. lol

i'm pretty sure we have this question and thread pop up every so many years on here.

how many cuemakers out there build anything else? besides burn piles or toilet paper roll holders? i'm sure there are a ton.....but i'm sure a ton of them are cues alone besides a acutal job like maybe they are a barber or teacher or electrician or whatever. Esp with chris's machines, that opened up the whole do at home thing in a garage.....and the progression of things like it with cnc. Can do lots of stuff it would take saws and much bigger equipment.

a big point of mine is theres a historical aspect of some techniques in cuemaking that i'm pretty sure have been lost to time. i'm not sure anyone has the skills to do some particular things. OR if say there was a restoration needed for something 175 years old full of marquetry.......you'd really have to find a true ebeneste'

most of them are all french lol......to be honest i've always wondered why i've never seen some super monsters coming out of france today. they make really fine furniture.....very fine.
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Type79 said:
No one makes cues by hand and the use of CNC is not the defining factor.
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by hand and manually isn't the same thing tho.



i mean by hand is probably maybe why this queperfect has such a chit facing......
78e2cf49a417e045dcce57efbb735eeb.jpg
the owner said the shaft was warped really bad...it's not lol but about the worst facing I've ever seen. Mr. Ronnie Powell also lost centers like you wouldn't believe....well yes yo would lol. It does play well though. Pretty cue
 
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measureman said:
Thats what Balabuska did.
He was a cue assembler,not a maker.
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i know this my friend......customers dont really care at the end of the day. at least not in pool. which is why a guy just picks the pretty cue....then often doesn't like the hit lol.
 
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greyghost said:
i know this my friend......customers dont really care at the end of the day. at least not in pool. which is why a guy just picks the pretty cue....then often doesn't like the hit lol.
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Are you saying lots of people returned Balabushka's cues for playing bad?
 
greyghost said:
what if the same guy bought all the pieces and assembled it?
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As long as all the pieces were quality materials and the maker assembled them in a professional manner and paid attention to detail, what difference does it make?

I used to buy thousands of dollars of stereo equipment....the best that money could buy...each component was made by a different company. Each company specialized in a particular component and nobody matched their quality. When you put all the components together, you had the best stereo money could buy.

There are tons of good cue makers, but not every cue maker makes a cue that satisfies all the players. Hit is so subjective that not even the same cue maker can make all of his cues hit alike. I know that for a fact. I've bought them, used them, and sold them.
 
HawaiianEye said:
As long as all the pieces were quality materials and the maker assembled them in a professional manner and paid attention to detail, what difference does it make?exactly...so it doesnt matter really

I used to buy thousands of dollars of stereo equipment....the best that money could buy...each component was made by a different company. Each company specialized in a particular component and nobody matched their quality. When you put all the components together, you had the best stereo money could buy.

There are tons of good cue makers, but not every cue maker makes a cue that satisfies all the players. Hit is so subjective that not even the same cue maker can make all of his cues hit alike. I know that for a fact. I've bought them, used them, and sold them.
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absolutely correct
 
HawaiianEye said:
If a cue maker lists his cue as "hand crafted", what does that mean?
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That means certain things are not automated by machine.
Veneer work....point work...stainless joints.. Etc... Often some elbow grease is the extra needed. For people like yourself. Whom I happen to respect. I would love to post some pictures and really get into it. But I've tried it before in defining recuts and veneers and unfortunately got bored with the ignorant people here who don't build anything but seem to have people convinced they actually have a clue. Pretty funny and sad at the same time.
 
measureman said:
Thats what Balabuska did.
He was a cue assembler,not a maker.
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So does that mean every cue "maker" that makes a merry widow, with or without inlays, is a cue "assembler"? Or what about those who use part of another cue like the prong section from a Titlist cue? Are they assemblers too? Doing that is like usng a solid piece of ANY wood for your forarm..except more difficult to work with.

I guess that makes everone who builds cues an assembler....George must have been one hell of one..
 
skins said:
So does that mean every cue "maker" that makes a merry widow, with or without inlays, is a cue "assembler"? Or what about those who use part of another cue like the prong section from a Titlist cue? Are they assemblers too? Doing that is like usng a solid piece of ANY wood for your forarm..except more difficult to work with.

I guess that makes everone who builds cues an assembler....George must have been one hell of one..
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exactly


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