Handle Tenons

blackhawk357m

blackhawk357m

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I purchased some handles that are 1.375" Dia. X 20" Long. I'm going to be threading a 5/8" handle tenon into the forearm, and cutting down the rear handle to the 3/4" tenon for the butt sleeve.

My question is: Can I cut down the handle material to the 5/8" & 3/4" tenons all at once, or do I cut some, wait, cut some more, wait...etc.?

Sorry if this is "known" aspect, I'm a noob and trying to absorb everything about this I can. :D

Nathan
 
If it is a laminated handle you might be able to get away with it. If it is not laminated, it will almost certainly move on you...especially the long tenon going through the butt section. I take several cuts over time.
 
threading

i tried threading with one of the broom handle theaders,i got funny clicks in the finished cue.i went back to a tenon with a threaded rod.not sure what you are trying and wanted to share my experience.
 
You need to give the tenons a long time to season and make a couple cuts to do it. I like 5 years but less might be okay most of the time. You'll know for sure after the cue has been put together for a while. If the 'A' joint warps, it was too soon.
 
Paul Dayton said:
You need to give the tenons a long time to season and make a couple cuts to do it. I like 5 years but less might be okay most of the time. You'll know for sure after the cue has been put together for a while. If the 'A' joint warps, it was too soon.
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And you found out too late.


:shocked::shocked:
 
Arnot Wadsworth said:
And you found out too late.


:shocked::shocked:
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Expierence is sometimes the best teacher. You need to take several cuts on the tenons and seal them between cuts, once you have a few cuts on the tenons then start taking pass's on the entire handle, again seal between cuts. The key is PATIENCE, never get into a rush to do anything in cue building, bad things will start to happen if you do. :D

Happy cue building, and welcome the the addiction !!
 
Why not core a 12" handle section with an 18"x.750" core? Leave an inch or so in the front for your "A" joint tenon, and the rest out the back for butt sleeve tenon? My "A" joint tenon is on the forearm and glue into the handle, so I core my 12" handles with a 16.5" core. That leaves 4.5" of tenon for a butt sleeve. There's no stress on anything & certainly no 5 year process to make a handle. I wouldn't build cues if I had to wait five years to make a butt sleeve tenon.

But I certainly do agree that cutting a tenon is stressful on the wood and is prone to warpage. That's why I core my handles, as do the majority of builders today. There's certainly nothing wrong with doing it all on a solid piece of wood. Just there's alternatives nowadays. Pick your poison.
 
qbilder said:
Why not core a 12" handle section with an 18"x.750" core? Leave an inch or so in the front for your "A" joint tenon, and the rest out the back for butt sleeve tenon? My "A" joint tenon is on the forearm and glue into the handle, so I core my 12" handles with a 16.5" core. That leaves 4.5" of tenon for a butt sleeve. There's no stress on anything & certainly no 5 year process to make a handle. I wouldn't build cues if I had to wait five years to make a butt sleeve tenon.

But I certainly do agree that cutting a tenon is stressful on the wood and is prone to warpage. That's why I core my handles, as do the majority of builders today. There's certainly nothing wrong with doing it all on a solid piece of wood. Just there's alternatives nowadays. Pick your poison.
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I didn't think of that....I like that idea! TY :thumbup:
 
I cut the bottom tenon incrementally when I'm tapering handles. . Final size would be .875". I don't like .750" tenons at the bottom . I feel .875" is much more stable. It just requires 'more work when I have to bore the rings to .877" holes.
If the tenon moves and have to be replaced, they're not that hard. The trick is to keep the A-joint are to zero runout AFTER the new tenon at the bottom is installed.
I don't deal with tenons on top of that handle.
I core my forearms with a long piece . A good portion goes down the handle.
 
qbilder said:
Why not core a 12" handle section with an 18"x.750" core? Leave an inch or so in the front for your "A" joint tenon, and the rest out the back for butt sleeve tenon? My "A" joint tenon is on the forearm and glue into the handle, so I core my 12" handles with a 16.5" core. That leaves 4.5" of tenon for a butt sleeve. There's no stress on anything & certainly no 5 year process to make a handle. I wouldn't build cues if I had to wait five years to make a butt sleeve tenon.

But I certainly do agree that cutting a tenon is stressful on the wood and is prone to warpage. That's why I core my handles, as do the majority of builders today. There's certainly nothing wrong with doing it all on a solid piece of wood. Just there's alternatives nowadays. Pick your poison.
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I dont know why I didnt mention that, I core pretty much everything. I core for stability and in some cases weight control, but stability especially in the handle can be much more stable if cored. You need to do what works best for you.
 
blackhawk357m said:
I purchased some handles that are 1.375" Dia. X 20" Long. I'm going to be threading a 5/8" handle tenon into the forearm, and cutting down the rear handle to the 3/4" tenon for the butt sleeve.

My question is: Can I cut down the handle material to the 5/8" & 3/4" tenons all at once, or do I cut some, wait, cut some more, wait...etc.?

Sorry if this is "known" aspect, I'm a noob and trying to absorb everything about this I can. :D

Nathan
Click to expand...



Nathan, there are many ways to build cues and for many of us trial and error is main way we learn. I have made the mistakes you are asking about here, I have had A-joints move on finished cues and I have had problems with the butt sleeve tenon.

So keeping all this in mind I have made the following changes where the butt sleeve is concerned, and to date it has eliminated any butt sleeve movement. It also allows the cues balance point to be moved to any position the customers requests, and last butt not least it makes the cue butt very very strong, and this in my opinion is important because a cues butt is one of the most abused area's on any cue.

In the pictures below I am going to show you my technique for Butt Tenon's. Many will not do it this way, because of the added expense or the additional work required, or because they simply do not think this is necessary. However, it works well for me and it totally stabilizes the entire butt section of the cue. In addition the method of construction will not move or ever warp. I start by deciding what the length of the cue will be. Next I bore a .750 diameter hole two and one half inches deep into the cues butt, then I epoxy the Phenolic tube into the cues butt. When I prepare the tube I only turn down the section going into the cues butt to .750 diameter. After the epoxy has set ( 24 hr's ) I install the core into the Phenolic Tube also using expoy, the inside tube diameter is .623 so the core is turned to that diameter. This core can be threaded prior to installation in the tube or after the epoxy has set, I normally thread the cure before I put it in the tube.

Then the remaining exposed tube can be turned down to what ever diameter you choose so that you can add your cored butt pieces, I normally use sections of wood for a cues butt that are bored out to .750.

Here are the photo's:

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

Please don't laugh, I am also a Noob but I am having fun even though this will most likely never make me rich!!!:smile:
 
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manwon said:
Nathan, there are many ways to build cues and for many of us trial and error is main way we learn. I have made the mistakes you are asking about here, I have had A-joints move on finished cues and I have had problems with the butt sleeve tenon.

So keeping all this in mind I have made the following changes where the butt sleeve is concerned, and to date it has eliminated any butt sleeve movement. It also allows the cues balance point to be moved to any position the customers requests, and last butt not least it makes the cue butt very very strong, and this in my opinion is important because a cues butt is one of the most abused area's on any cue.

In the pictures below I am going to show you my technique for Butt Tenon's. Many will not do it this way, because of the added expense or the additional work required, or because they simply do not think this is necessary. However, it works well for me and it totally stabilizes the entire butt section of the cue. In addition the method of construction will not move or ever warp. I start by deciding what the length of the cue will be. Next I bore a .750 diameter hole two and one half inches deep into the cues butt, then I epoxy the Phenolic tube into the cues butt. When I prepare the tube I only turn down the section going into the cues butt to .750 diameter. After the epoxy has set ( 24 hr's ) I install the core into the Phenolic Tube also using expoy, the inside tube diameter is .623 so the core is turned to that diameter. This core can be threaded prior to installation in the tube or after the epoxy has set, I normally thread the cure before I put it in the tube.

Then the remaining exposed tube can be turned down to what ever diameter you choose so that you can add your cored butt pieces, I normally use sections of wood for a cues butt that are bored out to .750.

Here are the photo's:

View attachment 191809

View attachment 191810

View attachment 191811

View attachment 191812

Please don't laugh, I am also a Noob but I am having fun even though this will most likely never make me rich!!!:smile:
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Double blacks hit better .:grin:
 
JoeyInCali said:
Double blacks hit better .:grin:
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I suspect that is possible, but Natural is just more Natural to use and it is also much cheaper!!!!:smile:

You being mean Joey, come on man it's the weekend dude!!!!:p Or just maybe your into warped butts, now if that is the case these will be perfect for you little guy!!!!!:grin:

big_butts.jpg

Joey, I bet that photo will make your cues hit stiffer!!!!!:thumbup:
 
threading

i used to core my forearms 3/4,but because of the thinness of the forearm wood at the a joint i went to 8 in. at .62 then to 3/4 in. one thing that i have'nt heard mentioned,is how coreing creates a more consistant hit,whether you're using softer,less dense wood as compared to an ebony,which is harder and denser.
 
manwon said:
Please don't laugh, I am also a Noob but I am having fun even though this will most likely never make me rich!!!:smile:
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Only a fool would laugh Craig and it would be their lose.
I for one appreciate the ideas you share. There's that word innovation again.
The only way new methods and ideas are going to be developed is by builders
putting their ideas into play. You're going to find what works and what doesn't.

Keep thinking and keep experimenting and thanx for sharing.

KJ
 

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I core everything , forearms .670 and handles and butt plates .750 . usually one pc. core has a step at the Ajoint or start of handle . depending on weight what i use for core , Eithet to lighten or to add weight and stength , like to a amboyna cue .

Lot more expeienced builder than I , but I even core my joint protectors . usually PH . Jim
 
KJ Cues said:
Only a fool would laugh Craig and it would be their lose.
I for one appreciate the ideas you share. There's that word innovation again.
The only way new methods and ideas are going to be developed is by builders
putting their ideas into play. You're going to find what works and what doesn't.

Keep thinking and keep experimenting and thanx for sharing.

KJ
Click to expand...



Thanks KJ, thanks very much for your comments, they are certainly appreciated.

Have a great night
 
Thanks for all the info

I'm thinking about boring a 3/4" and epoxy in a dowel of 3/4" oak.

Good, bad, indifferent? Figured strength of the oak would be good, just don't know how well it will take a 5/8" tenon threader to screw into the forearm.

Can't wait to find out though! lol :D


Nathan
 
blackhawk357m said:
I'm thinking about boring a 3/4" and epoxy in a dowel of 3/4" oak.

Good, bad, indifferent? Figured strength of the oak would be good, just don't know how well it will take a 5/8" tenon threader to screw into the forearm.

Can't wait to find out though! lol :D


Nathan
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That is the spirit Nathan, and that is also the secret to learning how to build cues.

Take Care Nathan
 
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