Has anyone ever seen an A-Joint like this? I think it is a early Huebler!!

[macguy]

I have never had the pleasure of seeing an x-ray of the A-joint on a Balabushka. However, I have been told by someone that I greatly respect of has seen x-rays of Balabushka's that the ones he had seen did have a tenon.

Your cue, may have been made early in Georges career, or even as an experiment. But to my knowledge George was very concerned about stability, longevity, and strength in his cues. I doubt that he would have built many that way, but who knows, maybe some of the more knowledgable posters will give their opinion!!!!

Thanks for your post!!!

I think he is pretty overrated, I had a few of his cues, I still have a couple. I am sure over the years he made a lot of goofy stuff that could probable not even be identified as his and never made another. The cue in question by the way was a four point standard cue, rosewood. Rockey Tillis fixed it and said at the time, and I quote "What a piece of $hit".

 

[rhncue]

I think he is pretty overrated, I had a few of his cues, I still have a couple. I am sure over the years he made a lot of goofy stuff that could probable not even be identified as his and never made another. The cue in question by the way was a four point standard cue, rosewood. Rockey Tillis fixed it and said at the time, and I quote "What a piece of $hit".

I've been saying this for years. If Balabushka was still alive and making cues today, and if still making them in the same fashion, he couldn't give them away. Everyone worships his cue building techniques, which to me, were standard at the time with other cue makers and sometimes just plain old primitive. Most of his cues were little more than converted house cues with an oil finish. What turned his cues into a collectible classic was the Color of Money. Because of an exotic sounding name, overnight the reputation and price of his cues increased ten-fold. Fast Eddie was supposed to be from California but no one in California ever even heard of George Balabushka. The big name on the West coast was the often overlooked Harvey Martin but his name was not colorful enough for a movie.

Dick

 

[JoeyInCali]

I've been saying this for years. If Balabushka was still alive and making cues today, and if still making them in the same fashion, he couldn't give them away. Everyone worships his cue building techniques, which to me, were standard at the time with other cue makers and sometimes just plain old primitive. Most of his cues were little more than converted house cues with an oil finish. What turned his cues into a collectible classic was the Color of Money. Because of an exotic sounding name, overnight the reputation and price of his cues increased ten-fold. Fast Eddie was supposed to be from California but no one in California ever even heard of George Balabushka. The big name on the West coast was the often overlooked Harvey Martin but his name was not colorful enough for a movie.

Dick

" Here you go Vince. That's a Martin." I think it would have sounded nice except Martin's guitar was already huge.
A friend of mine has a few Bushkas. I know one rattles so bad it sounds like a cracked baseball bat.

 

[manwon]

I understand your logic, the same logic & mindset we all likely have in early days of building. But I think as time goes on you'll find the critical flaw in the method you describe. On paper it sounds great, perfect. But in reality you will find that having more than one load bearing joint will counteract & cause internal stress. This is especially accentuated by using a metal stud, which is stronger than the wood. If you use a tenon you will nearly certainly need to make slop room for your stud, granted that your tenon is a nice fit. The tenon should be your load bearing joint, and the stud should be nothing but an internal clamp to secure the two pieces until glue cures. If your stud fits tight and your tenon fits tight, no matter how fine your tollerances are, unless they are absolute dead nuts both center including the threads, you are going to be causing stress with two counter-acting joints. Radial connecting pins are possibly the exception due to perfect tollerances. Rolled pins & threaded rod is not nearly accurate enough for a tight joint that is dead center. The stress is what most generally causes the often seen "warp" at the "A" joint. But don't take my word for it, find it out for yourself. This is stuff we mostly learn through experience. We can be instructed otherwise but still gotta find out for yourself.

As for the flat faced joint, I also disagree with the method to an extent but not for any strength reasons. It's a strong friggin joint type no matter what way it's hacked up & discussed. But the tenon methods most generally "buzz" less. Even though the cue in question had the buzz washer, it was still glued end grain. Glue back then never stuck to end grain or metal. The washer was nothing but a buzz deterent.

Thanks for your explanation, I always like to here idea's that are truly based upon one's beliefs. I hate to talk with those that can only spout the party line, due to their lack of individual thought. I am not one of those individuals who lives life between the lines, in my scope of things, the lines are only what one's mind can conceive.

Have a great day!!!

 

[dzcues]

this might surprise some of you

I have a broken Mottey 4 pointer that uses a thin-walled phenolic buzz ring at the A joint. But then, what does he know? Go figure.

PS No, it didn't break at the A joint.

 

[masonh]

i was under the impression the warp at or near the A-joint was from the handle warping as most of them are just bare wood.

 

[manwon]

I have a broken Mottey 4 pointer that uses a thin-walled phenolic buzz ring at the A joint. But then, what does he know? Go figure.

PS No, it didn't break at the A joint.

Hello Bob, that is very interesting!! However, you know what they say, knowone is perfect.

But seriously, is it an early cue or was it made recently?

Thanks Bob

 

[qbilder]

i was under the impression the warp at or near the A-joint was from the handle warping as most of them are just bare wood.

If this were the case, the entire handle would show warp & not only the front 3 inches. If the tenon & stud are not dead nuts on the money centerline to one another, it will put stress on one side of the stud. The stud being metal will not give, so the only thing left to happen is the handle tweak enough to relieve the stress. This is not the only reason a handle warps by any means. But given internal tension at the "A" joint, you can be sure the pressure will not relieve through the metal stud.

 

[masonh]

i don't see any reason they shouldn't be dead nuts center if you use a dead nuts metal lathe,but i see your point.i guess i just assumed it was the handle as i have seen many warped cues repaired with a new handle,but i guees that also means new A-joint.i am trying to picture in my head the way you said you do yours,but it seems essentially the same but with a wood screw instead of metal.what is the difference?i am not trying to tell the Dr. how to operate,i am asking questions to learn,thanks for replies.

 

[dzcues]

Hello Bob, that is very interesting!! However, you know what they say, knowone is perfect.

But seriously, is it an early cue or was it made recently?

Thanks Bob

I believe it was made in the early 90s.

 

[manwon]

i don't see any reason they shouldn't be dead nuts center if you use a dead nuts metal lathe,but i see your point.i guess i just assumed it was the handle as i have seen many warped cues repaired with a new handle,but i guees that also means new A-joint.i am trying to picture in my head the way you said you do yours,but it seems essentially the same but with a wood screw instead of metal.what is the difference?i am not trying to tell the Dr. how to operate,i am asking questions to learn,thanks for replies.

dead nuts metal lathe Is this a brand? And if so I bet it smells!!!!

 

[manwon]

I believe it was made in the early 90s.

Thanks very much for the reply Bob. Do you think he builds all his cues that way, or was it just something he tried.

 

[JoeyInCali]

i don't see any reason they shouldn't be dead nuts center if you use a dead nuts metal lathe,
Dead nuts lathe also need dead nuts setup and machining.
One of the reasons I think it's easier to make floating points instead of v-points.
With floating points, you can inlay them after the cue is fully assembled.

 

[qbilder]

i don't see any reason they shouldn't be dead nuts center if you use a dead nuts metal lathe,but i see your point.i guess i just assumed it was the handle as i have seen many warped cues repaired with a new handle,but i guees that also means new A-joint.i am trying to picture in my head the way you said you do yours,but it seems essentially the same but with a wood screw instead of metal.what is the difference?i am not trying to tell the Dr. how to operate,i am asking questions to learn,thanks for replies.

Mine is done somewhat the same but with a few key differences that I don't care to go into. One difference being wood threads rather than a metal stud. I will say that the tenon is the load bearing joint, though & the threads merely pull the pieces together while glue cures. Otherwise mine is nothing even similar to the common or standard types.

 

[shakes]

I have a broken Mottey 4 pointer that uses a thin-walled phenolic buzz ring at the A joint. But then, what does he know? Go figure.

PS No, it didn't break at the A joint.

He used a buzz ring, but was there a tenon from the handle going into the forearm? Or vice-versa? I don't think the issue here is the buzz ring, I think it's the lack of a tenon and the fact that it was just a jump/break type connection that was glued up. Of course I could be wrong... No seriously, I could be.

 

[masonh]

i understand,whatever you do it apparently works.all you cues have a nice solid hit but not too hard.

 

[qbilder]

i understand,whatever you do it apparently works.all you cues have a nice solid hit but not too hard.

Thanks. That is my objective, to get as close to natural feeling as possible, like a one piece. Always evolving, too.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Thanks. That is my objective, to get as close to natural feeling as possible, like a one piece. Always evolving, too.

Oh some ideas.

 

[Cue Crazy]

i don't see any reason they shouldn't be dead nuts center if you use a dead nuts metal lathe,
Dead nuts lathe also need dead nuts setup and machining.
One of the reasons I think it's easier to make floating points instead of v-points.
With floating points, you can inlay them after the cue is fully assembled.

It's much easier to turn floating points for sure. They also don't thin out as your turning the cue, so the lenth doesn't change. I noticed something from fullsplice blanks & dufferin conversions, maybe someone knows if My thinking is correct here.


I had good centers on 2 cues out of a batch, with the points trimming pretty close to even and holding each time i would pull them down and run a couple of turns, when all of a sudden on one pass they started to runoff alittle. The same centers, running dead nuts, with no runnout to speak of. It kind of puzzled me until i started trimming a couple of fresh.960 blanks, and one had alittle bit of runnout not at the tips but alittle below it. Well I made a pass, took any runnout out of the blank, and the tips ran even with My center holes, but they were running even from the get go. That got me thinking if that area that had runnout originally, then once down to near finish size the tips end up down below where that area was in that runnout area, even though by then the cue shows no runout. I thought then maybe that's what was caused the issue with the 2 blanks I mentioned. If the points are getting shorter as You trim, then wouldn't it just be a matter of if the tips end up in that area when getting to finish size? By then there's not much skin to reset the points. I can see some blanks having this issue hiding, just waitng to happen if this is possible. Maybe I just think too much LOL


Greg

Greg

 

[dzcues]

He used a buzz ring, but was there a tenon from the handle going into the forearm? Or vice-versa? I don't think the issue here is the buzz ring, I think it's the lack of a tenon and the fact that it was just a jump/break type connection that was glued up. Of course I could be wrong... No seriously, I could be.

There was no tenon. Just a register diameter for alignment, a gap between the faces & a thin walled phenolic sleeve - joined with a 3/8-16 pin. Don't know if he still does it but I know the cue played great before it was broken in anger over a $30 game.

I see nothing wrong with that style of joint and often use it myself with half splice cues (though I use a thicker walled sleeve). I feel it's stronger than running a tenon up into the forearm, leaving a thin walled laminate surrounding the tenon. But that's just my opinion.