Has anyone suggested Magic Rack to Allen Hopkins for SBE?

Please someone convince Allen NOT to use those cheesy mueller plastic racks for us amateurs. Not one year goes by where someone doesn't have a cow fighting over a tight rack. The mueller plastic rack only lets the balls roll off half the time, so you're breaking your back stretching over and over again making a decent rack in one game. The magic rack would eliminate that issue and there will definitely be less arguing over slug racks, making people much more happier.
 
KMRUNOUT said:
I like how you put "end of story" there, because that really highlights how you didn't read my whole post. My main point was that simply making a ball on the break is NOT all there is to good breaking. Consistently getting a shot AFTER the break is equally if not more important. My contention is that the stronger *PLAYER* has the capacity should they choose to think about it, to more consistently get a good shot after the break. I agree with you that the less skilled *breaker* will have an easier time making balls. But I can almost guarantee that in a short race to 5 alternating break format, the better player is MORE likely to win with the magic rack than without. This is because the skills that back up their break become EMPHASIZED with the use of the magic rack.

Try not to fixate on the first sentence of a post. There was actually more to the story. On my end I could have worded things to make it more clear that my entire post illustrated a point that some people seemed to be overlooking. I thought it was so obvious that it wasn't worth mentioning though...

KMRUNOUT
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You know I wrote a long (sarcastic or clever what ever you want to call it) reply back to your post, but then decided to erase it. You're a smart guy and I'm sure we could go back and forth all day about this if we so desired. You like the Magic Rack and I don't that's the bottom line.
If you take Shane and Mika in a race to 50 let's say, winner breaks I like Shane to win with the mr or without your opinion may differ. I am sure that both of these players have much skill to back up their breaks and these skills become more EMPHASIZED with the Magic Rack as you say.
What I'm saying is that with the Magic Rack Mika has a better chance of wining because he'll get a chance to shoot at the ball he's played position on more often, only because he'll make balls or a ball more often with the Magic Rack. When I state that he'll have a better chance of winning I still don't think he'll win, just do better because of the mr and that's why I say I don't like it. This is how I feel I'm sure you and other people will feel differently, you still have to make a ball to shoot again . Have a nice day.
 
Here's some food for thought... How about you have refs rack the balls and not have any questions about it or its a loss of game penalty!! So tired of the rack issues!! Offer the refs or rackers 5 bucks and drink or food tickets as a payment for their efforts. Hell!!! If I were there I would rack balls and call hits for a fin and a meal!! Sure it will cost money but imho neither player should ever touch the balls... EVER!!
 
RunoutJJ said:
Here's some food for thought... How about you have refs rack the balls and not have any questions about it or its a loss of game penalty!! So tired of the rack issues!! Offer the refs or rackers 5 bucks and drink or food tickets as a payment for their efforts. Hell!!! If I were there I would rack balls and call hits for a fin and a meal!! Sure it will cost money but imho neither player should ever touch the balls... EVER!!
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Pretty sure there's well over 2000 players. The open has something like 1100-1200 all by itself. Then there's the womens division, seniors, super seniors, and juniors. Add the pros, Wednesday warm up, ... . . . . . . .

Lotsa racking would be needed. ;)

Best,
Brian kc
 
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I was referring to the pro event. It seems that the pros are the only ones with racking problems last time I checked....
 
trob said:
i remember a few years ago the expo supplied the accu rack at every table. anyone remember that..people hated them lol
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Yes I do remember that,,and how big and clumbsy they were ,, that is why when I seen a rack manufacture thats a sponsor. I figure it was a possibllity .. ..<<< ED
 
If they switch to 10ball I would love to see the Magic Rack... If you know what you are doing the ball behind the 1ball is pretty dead in the side.... Just blasting 10ball with a magic rack is almost as bad as getting slugged...very unlike using it for 9ball where all you have to do is make a legal break to have a really good chance at making a ball....

I tend to disagree that the diamond is completely broken it can be manipulated but we saw no big packages at the Derby on the TV table... I watched Dechaine run 4 of what was supposed to be a 7pack on a table a cpl of rows over but I missed the first 3.....

What totally breaks the diamond is a rack mechanic or the magic rack.... I wish I could tell you what the mechanics are doing but to some extent even with the knowledge I have acquired myself or I have gotten from Joe T's materials the whole picture is still incomplete....

I can tell you what the magic rack does... In a perfect rack with a triangle you manage to get all the balls to stay in contact... And you rack on the spot in such a way that the 1ball is loaded onto the 2nd 2 balls because of the dents knocked into the spot...... If you do this and have found the proper spot, speed, contact point and english you are going to get a ball down and have a pretty good shot on the oneball.....

The magic Rack loads every contact like you would normally try and load the 1ball.... What this does is it creates potential energy at every contact.... More explosive racks coupled with the balls sliding across the plastic surface of the rack tends to make the wing ball dead.....

You can use slugdoctor or one of the other systems that uses the hole reinforcers and load the entire rack like the magic rack with the main difference being the percentage of wing balls that go on the break......

I spoke at long length about this subject with Ralf Souquet... He is the one who added the slide factor bit of information which is the actual key to why the Magic Rack allows for making balls consistently with it be it 9ball or 10ball....

If you don't believe it take an exacto to your magic rack and remove material along the path from the wingball to the pocket the always dead wingball will now only be somewhat dead......
 
thanks to all on your opinions on the magic rack

It is great the we have opinions which we can express. I am undertanding of both sides. I do want to know how the Slug Doctor fits it the equation, if at all. it looks like another good device except that reinforcement circle will eventually wear and if that wear affect the game by causing a ball to roll off of position even by a wee bit it could cause issues. Will the reinforcement circle eventually cause the table to be "trained" and not need the replacement of them or are they always going to be needed.
 
So far with my use of the Magic Rack is that it is GREAT.. And the only players that localy seemed opposed to it are the ones that you constantly have to check their racks due to them trying to give bad racks. Wit the rack completely frozen as the MBR does everyone has the SAME rack so the stronger players should LOVE it. But like i said from my trials its the guys who dont want to give youa good rack hate it .

jmo
 
Funny but the times anybody I play against uses the magic rack I always check it to make sure its tight. Never know :rolleyes:
 
Tobby said:
So far with my use of the Magic Rack is that it is GREAT.. And the only players that localy seemed opposed to it are the ones that you constantly have to check their racks due to them trying to give bad racks. Wit the rack completely frozen as the MBR does everyone has the SAME rack so the stronger players should LOVE it. But like i said from my trials its the guys who dont want to give youa good rack hate it .

jmo
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I don't slug rack but due to the prevalence of it I will no longer play opponent racks... It's rack your own and I will do exactly what I posted above... touch m all and try and get the 1 to load...... These days if I lose it's usually because someone out broke me in the set..... With the magic rack and the amount of luck that remains on the break I can get out broken by guys that simply walk up and hit them.... I hate having spent 100s of hours to get what I have to only have it spoon fed to players that 1)are too lazy to really work on the break 2)slam break everything 3)Don't ever or haven't ever considered that the break needs to be worked on HARD....... Next tourney I hit that uses the magic rack I am going to be sure to stop by staples on the way.......



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I'll tell you this.. you call it easier to break but I don't see near as many 9 balls on the break with the magic rack and what could be easier then winning then by springing the 9 on the break?
 
trob said:
I'll tell you this.. you call it easier to break but I don't see near as many 9 balls on the break with the magic rack and what could be easier then winning then by springing the 9 on the break?
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True... but irrelevant. Very few games are won by making the 9 on the break vs. running out.
 
SBE is a 4 1/2 day tournament, so any table wear issue with Slug Doctor would be minimal. It should be easy to take them off Sunday night. Being stuck to the table, there is no theft concern as with the MBR. Only additional maintenance would be the initial setup (10 minutes per table), and have SBE staff may have to walk around periodically to inspect if any dots have come off.

I thought the $2 Mueller racks were superior to plastic racks of the same kind. They rack pretty tight enough that I bought two cartons a couple of years back to help a friend start an in-house league. At $2 per rack, it definitely helps limit Allen Hopkin's expenses from rack theft versus $10 for MBR.

Jeeves said:
It is great the we have opinions which we can express. I am undertanding of both sides. I do want to know how the Slug Doctor fits it the equation, if at all. it looks like another good device except that reinforcement circle will eventually wear and if that wear affect the game by causing a ball to roll off of position even by a wee bit it could cause issues. Will the reinforcement circle eventually cause the table to be "trained" and not need the replacement of them or are they always going to be needed.
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Now that's food for thought..... A triangle made of plastic =$2 A template made of plastic sheeting cut on a vinyl machine=$10.... I have a 9ball/10ball version model based on a different design... I keep thinking of heading by a sign shop to have some prototypes cut just don't know if the market can handle or needs yet another racking product.......
 
There's a reason why more and more tourneys are using the Magic Rack - WORLD WIDE.

It levels the playing field, saves time, inhibits mechanics/cheating, and has more pros than cons vs the alternatives. JMHO. I hate inspecting racks - be it a hack's lack of skill or a mechanics manipulation.

It ain't perfect, but it's a strong device. Gets my vote too.
 
Have you watched the pro am at valley forge? It takes longer for them to rack ..rerack ...rerack...get an official to *****..then rerack some more to then it takes to play a game!!
 
Jeeves said:
It is great the we have opinions which we can express. I am undertanding of both sides. I do want to know how the Slug Doctor fits it the equation, if at all. it looks like another good device except that reinforcement circle will eventually wear and if that wear affect the game by causing a ball to roll off of position even by a wee bit it could cause issues. Will the reinforcement circle eventually cause the table to be "trained" and not need the replacement of them or are they always going to be needed.
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The Slug Doctor is a very good system. It leans the balls in like the MBR but the perforations are thinner so they don't lean against each other quite as much. So it is probably a bit more natural. The advantage to the SD is that it is "permanently" on the table in the sense that you don't lay it down every time you rack. This means each player gets the exact same rack because the rack can't be tilted or set high/low on the spot.

As far as cost or theft goes, there is nothing to steal. The template that installs the dots is in the hands of the TD or some other official. No one is going to steal the dots off the table. If a dot comes off or wears out it is easy, quick, and simple to replace with the template. For the promoter or TD, they only have to buy one and it can be used on as many tables as they need. So from that perspective it has to be the least expensive thing out there.

The Magic rack does get removed after the break so for the rest of the rack there is zero possibility the MBR will interfere in any way. But I've used the SD and the perfs are so thin they really don't cause issues any more frequently than the foot spot does. The problem with the MBR when it is on the table is that when a balls rolls over it, even with speed, the rack might move and it is this movement that really alters the path of the balls. The SD perfs don't move.
 
Rack your own

Joe T said:
It's not the rack that is a problem when we're talking about 9 ball its the diamond shape of it that is flawed, they just didn't see this coming 60yrs ago when they first racked'em up like that and we're to stubburn or set in ours ways to adjust. I understand that the MR makes it easier for everyone to make a ball on the break but that is because it does what it is suppose to do, gives a good rack. Prior to MRs and other good training devices it was torture to play anyone that could runout. Many of us that racked good were put at a big disadvantage. Do you know how bad it sucks playing a person your speed and they can't rack!!! I know you're thinking rack your own but then as soon as you make a ball the arm waving and frownng starts.

For 15yrs I have said that diamond shaped rack is flawed and we should play 10B. Thankfully we are playing more 10B and yes its easier to make a ball now in 10B due to good racking devices but at least its a skill based break not just a dead corner ball. If you want to continue to play 9B just agree to rack the 9 on the spot and break from the box and then whack away ;)

As far as the best breakers go, I would gladly have a break contest with any of them, as long as I get to rack for both of us?

What do the non magic rack fans propose?
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Rack your own! You should have a shot clock to rack your own :-)

I bet you will see a lot more spinning balls in place to get a tight rack.
 
Rack your own

trob said:
Have you watched the pro am at valley forge? It takes longer for them to rack ..rerack ...rerack...get an official to *****..then rerack some more to then it takes to play a game!!
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ok Rack your own! Or is that just to easy?
 
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