Hatch The Shark

[bfdlad]

I dont care if 90% of the people liked it. At several points I was embarrassed to be associated with the whole thing. The first two days werent bad, it was about what I expected with some jawing back and forth. The third day was an embarrassment for everyone involved.

Im not in the professional wrestling business. We want to give the best players in the world a showcase for their talent and a chance for fans to see great one on one matches. We want the players to be comfortable to be themselves and act how they want within reason. Sunday was not within reason. We will just have to draw the lines a little more clearly and back them up with some teeth.

Wow, it must have been much worse than I thought then. Embarrassed to be associated with it? Thats pretty bad. Sorry that happened to you but Idon't think anyone is holding it against ya man. Could be worse you could have been playing scotch doubles with these guys and Earl and pick a name

 

[bfdlad]

I didn't watch the match but I have watched plenty of pro matches and sharking is far more common than most people want to believe or care to believe.

Personally speaking, there should be ZERO TOLERANCE for sharking. The reason it should be ZERO TOLERANCE is that it can get into the same thing that Dennis is saying, which is that Mike started it first..... I don't know who started it first but that is the reason why there should be ZERO TOLERANCE for sharking.

The slamming of cues, the snide remarks, the ad hominem verbal teasing, the body movement while sitting in the chair, the cleaning or repairing of equipment is something, or the insinuation of a physical thrashing knows no end and nothing good ever comes of it. Well, sometimes, one player can get another's goat and win a match but in general, sharking never produces a win-win situation.

I seldom disagree with what JAM writes but this time, I do.

Letting boys be boys is the dumbest thing TAR can do. When it gets to the fines for infractions, who is going to say where it started, and who deserves to get penalized the most. When Justin makes the call, there will always be those who say he was favoring this one over the other and knowing that, Justin will be hard-pressed not to balance the fines for poor conduct. Where does it end? The sad truth is that punishing one person for observed bad conduct will not get the job done.

When I was in the Marine Corps bootcamp, when one person screwed up, the whole platoon paid for the screw-up. If fines are to be levied, they should be levied at both players REGARDLESS of who started it. This worked in the Corps and it will work on TAR.

No, the players won't like it but being admonished in front of the International Internet Audience and having an audio bite of a flushing toilet, symbolizing BOTH of the players' money being flushed down the toilet will give them a little something to think about. TAR could consider giving the fine money back to the PPV viewing audience or maybe to a pool educational fund or buying some Kamui chalk for future players on TAR. Under no condition, should the fine money be returned to the players and the players should know that up front.

Hey Joey, I can see what you are saying about if one steps out of line eveyone gets a penalty but I would hate to see Shane playing Earl and Earl goes on tilt and then shane get $100 fine. There is nothing the other can do to control the situation. So only fines after a reasonable warning to the individual. Hey its Justins $$ I am sure he has a plan to keep control of things from now on.

 

[Ghosst]

JAM, I’m going to quote to Pearl references. I’m a bad person and I know this. My apologies in advance.

I may have watched a different TAR stream than some other people but I saw *both* players beaking at each other. Mike kind of rubs me the wrong way, mostly due to the attitude he carries. Even in the Podcast, he seemed to assume he was the only one who was right while Dennis was fairly quiet and a little more realistic. I’m of the opinion that Dennis just let it get to him more and it ruined his chances in the end. I won’t blindly worship anyone, pool player or not, but from what I saw Mike started first, and Dennis just got sucked in. Both of the guys could have done better, but what’s done is done. None of us is perfect.

Before you judge either, take a minute and think of that one guy that just rubs you the wrong way in the poolhall. Add some pride and a little gambling, and have that guy start making comments. Heck I just watched game #14 (6-7) just after the, “talking to”. Dennis fouled the CB, was obviously upset, and Mike starts whistling happily. It’s a subtle shark, but he’s obviously rubbing salt in the wound. If that was the person you might dislike, under the same circumstances, you might get a little PO’d too.

Or any of Shane's TAR matches, for that matter.

In Shane’s last match with Earl on day 3 we were pretty sure Shane was about to knock Earl on his rear. Sharking can get under anyone’s skin. Earl should thank his lucky stars.

The antics were somewhat expected, but didn't get too mean spirited. Of course, I even enjoy watching Earl on the stream. If TAR wants to impose conduct rules, I hope they give Earl a chance to come back.

I’m surprised Earl is allowed to play at CSI events right now. That said, he made his mistakes before Mark decided to get tougher on players. Hopefully someone addresses this issue specifically (unsportsmanlike conduct) with all the players with clear expectations, and clear penalties and *actually* enforces it. No excuses, one warning.

This is generally the case with virtually every Filipino, Taiwanese, and European player I have seen. It tends to be the American players that pipe up and yack and treat the "competition" as less then what they should and thus by doing so tarnish its image as a true and proper sport.

I wonder if we agree because we’re both Canadian and we have a different way of doing things. However, I’ve seen quite a few top Canadian players that exhibit this kind of behavior so there’s probably more to it than nationality. We don’t practice the same kind of honor system that is more common overseas either. As one person pm’d me a while ago, the attitude here is, “Troll or be trolled”, (although in pool I suppose we translate it as, “Shark or be sharked”.) It’s kind of sad.

 

[spanky79]

I didn't watch the match but I have watched plenty of pro matches and sharking is far more common than most people want to believe or care to believe.

Personally speaking, there should be ZERO TOLERANCE for sharking. The reason it should be ZERO TOLERANCE is that it can get into the same thing that Dennis is saying, which is that Mike started it first..... I don't know who started it first but that is the reason why there should be ZERO TOLERANCE for sharking.

The slamming of cues, the snide remarks, the ad hominem verbal teasing, the body movement while sitting in the chair, the cleaning or repairing of equipment is something, or the insinuation of a physical thrashing knows no end and nothing good ever comes of it. Well, sometimes, one player can get another's goat and win a match but in general, sharking never produces a win-win situation.

I seldom disagree with what JAM writes but this time, I do.

Letting boys be boys is the dumbest thing TAR can do. When it gets to the fines for infractions, who is going to say where it started, and who deserves to get penalized the most. When Justin makes the call, there will always be those who say he was favoring this one over the other and knowing that, Justin will be hard-pressed not to balance the fines for poor conduct. Where does it end? The sad truth is that punishing one person for observed bad conduct will not get the job done.

When I was in the Marine Corps bootcamp, when one person screwed up, the whole platoon paid for the screw-up. If fines are to be levied, they should be levied at both players REGARDLESS of who started it. This worked in the Corps and it will work on TAR.

No, the players won't like it but being admonished in front of the International Internet Audience and having an audio bite of a flushing toilet, symbolizing BOTH of the players' money being flushed down the toilet will give them a little something to think about. TAR could consider giving the fine money back to the PPV viewing audience or maybe to a pool educational fund or buying some Kamui chalk for future players on TAR. Under no condition, should the fine money be returned to the players and the players should know that up front.

Sorry but that is hilarious, if a guy is sitting in his seat like Shane did against Earl and Earl decides to be a jackoff, Shane should not be punished for Earl's actions, Period, end of story.

 

[spanky79]

Hey Joey, I can see what you are saying about if one steps out of line eveyone gets a penalty but I would hate to see Shane playing Earl and Earl goes on tilt and then shane get $100 fine. There is nothing the other can do to control the situation. So only fines after a reasonable warning to the individual. Hey its Justins $$ I am sure he has a plan to keep control of things from now on.

OOops I guess I was a little late.

 

[JoeyA]

Hey Joey, I can see what you are saying about if one steps out of line eveyone gets a penalty but I would hate to see Shane playing Earl and Earl goes on tilt and then shane get $100 fine. There is nothing the other can do to control the situation. So only fines after a reasonable warning to the individual. Hey its Justins $$ I am sure he has a plan to keep control of things from now on.

It's a slippery slope that Justin will be walking......

Oh, I meant to say that those who don't shark, will just have to choose to play opponents that aren't going to dig into their wallets too much.Lol

 

[Johnnyt]

It's a slippery slope that Justin will be walking......

Oh, I meant to say that those who don't shark, will just have to choose to play opponents that aren't going to dig into their wallets too much.Lol

Not fair fining the one that did nothing. In the Army the one that cost us our weekend pass or whatever....well let's just say he didn't have a very good weekend. Johnnyt

 

[chevybob20]

P.S. I've been watching Dennis O. play for the last week, both in the tournament and in money games. He never says a word or makes a peep when his opponent is shooting. Even when he was getting sharked, he totally ignored it, not responding visibly in any way. One player he was in action against was constantly talking throughout the match, complaining about anything and everything. Dennis never even looked in his direction!

Dennis responds by coming to the table and shooting great pool! He knows how to quiet all the outside chatter, he stuns them into silence! :yeah:

Kinda like Robocop eh? He and SVB have a certain presence at the table.

 

[JoeyA]

Not fair fining the one that did nothing. In the Army the one that cost us our weekend pass or whatever....well let's just say he didn't have a very good weekend. Johnnyt

Exactly right!

The problem is determining which player (if any) did nothing to start the sharking. :indecisive:

I've seen many matches in my life and there are very few players without sin in this regard. Sometimes, the sharking starts with nothing more than a smirk that irks one of the players. It's really all about acting like gentlemen and it is too difficult to know for sure who was the original shit-stirrer. I've seen matches where the original shit-stirrer is never officially caught or seen by many. Some sharkers are more coy than others.

The bottom line is this game takes a LOT of focus and the little games that some people play have no place in the sport.

When both parties are penalized, the non-sharker will simply refuse to play with those who will cost them money.

 

[nb92]

I dont care if 90% of the people liked it. At several points I was embarrassed to be associated with the whole thing. The first two days werent bad, it was about what I expected with some jawing back and forth. The third day was an embarrassment for everyone involved.

Im not in the professional wrestling business. We want to give the best players in the world a showcase for their talent and a chance for fans to see great one on one matches. We want the players to be comfortable to be themselves and act how they want within reason. Sunday was not within reason. We will just have to draw the lines a little more clearly and back them up with some teeth.

I bought all three days.. really enjoyed it.. did not really see anything happen that was worse than a "McEnroe vs whoever" match back in the day (and men's tennis did ok back then).

Of course I liked the 10 ft match and did not really see anything "wrong" there either.

I play 3-4 times per week, travel to at least 2 "big" tourny's as a spectator every year and probably spend between 6-9K per year on pool "stuff" (including trips).. but I guess I am not the target demo because I really would not change a thing..

I know I would not purchase anything that looks like the ESPN stuff...

 

[Hungarian]

+1

like the realness of the situation

but there comes a point...

I bought all three days.. really enjoyed it.. did not really see anything happen that was worse than a "McEnroe vs whoever" match back in the day (and men's tennis did ok back then).

Of course I liked the 10 ft match and did not really see anything "wrong" there either.

I play 3-4 times per week, travel to at least 2 "big" tourny's as a spectator every year and probably spend between 6-9K per year on pool "stuff" (including trips).. but I guess I am not the target demo because I really would not change a thing..

I know I would not purchase anything that looks like the ESPN stuff...

 

[robsnotes4u]

Sharking

The Sharking aspect interests me a little. You always hear how focused people are when they are playing, if you are that focused the antics shouldn't bother you. Tigers Dad use to bang pots and pans during his swing to help him focus. Golf and Pool want everyone to be perfectly still, perfectly quiet. Why? Look at the Basketball Player at the free throw line shooting the game winner, is everyone quiet?. NO they are jumping out of their seats waving things and screaming. The same in Football. Maybe pool needs the screaming, energy and excitement. When I wrestled at the state and national level, being in the zone, I can't recall consciously hearing anything, or seeing anything that didn't have to do with the task at hand.

Sharking gives people an excuse to why they lost.

Here is a little sharking (psychological) weapon I used in wrestling. I was a 82 pound kid wrestling at 98 pounds. Scrawny. When we did the lineup before the match the would introduce both sides individually and you would meet in the middle of the mat to shake hands. If the guy didn't know me on the way out I would trip on purpose. My opponent would laugh. At that point the match was over, I won.

Is sharking courteous? No. But it is a part of the game, and part of life. Unfortunately the game isn't only played on a 4 1/2 X 9 foot piece of felt, it is also played in the 6 inch space between the ears.

 

[JCIN]

I didn't watch the match but I have watched plenty of pro matches and sharking is far more common than most people want to believe or care to believe.

Personally speaking, there should be ZERO TOLERANCE for sharking. The reason it should be ZERO TOLERANCE is that it can get into the same thing that Dennis is saying, which is that Mike started it first..... I don't know who started it first but that is the reason why there should be ZERO TOLERANCE for sharking.

The slamming of cues, the snide remarks, the ad hominem verbal teasing, the body movement while sitting in the chair, the cleaning or repairing of equipment is something, or the insinuation of a physical thrashing knows no end and nothing good ever comes of it. Well, sometimes, one player can get another's goat and win a match but in general, sharking never produces a win-win situation.

I seldom disagree with what JAM writes but this time, I do.

Letting boys be boys is the dumbest thing TAR can do. When it gets to the fines for infractions, who is going to say where it started, and who deserves to get penalized the most. When Justin makes the call, there will always be those who say he was favoring this one over the other and knowing that, Justin will be hard-pressed not to balance the fines for poor conduct. Where does it end? The sad truth is that punishing one person for observed bad conduct will not get the job done.

When I was in the Marine Corps bootcamp, when one person screwed up, the whole platoon paid for the screw-up. If fines are to be levied, they should be levied at both players REGARDLESS of who started it. This worked in the Corps and it will work on TAR.

No, the players won't like it but being admonished in front of the International Internet Audience and having an audio bite of a flushing toilet, symbolizing BOTH of the players' money being flushed down the toilet will give them a little something to think about. TAR could consider giving the fine money back to the PPV viewing audience or maybe to a pool educational fund or buying some Kamui chalk for future players on TAR. Under no condition, should the fine money be returned to the players and the players should know that up front.

You treat pool players like Marines Joey. See how many return your calls. Punishing one person for the acts of another may work in boot camp but it won't go over real well in what I do. Nor does it make a lot of sense. How would you like it if your co worker did something and you got docked for it? I would assume the leadership wasn't creative or energetic enough to address the problem at it's source. Probably start looking for a new place to work too.

Both guys contacted me since last night. Both basically said the same thing which is they let the other guy get to them and things got a little out of hand. The fact that both guys were man enough to contact me on their own and discuss the situation is a big positive to me. What happens in the future we will just have to wait and see.

 

[twopeicecue]

Thank Tar for another great stream!

When you come onto this site to defend your professionalism in a non-professional way its pretty obvious there was an issue.

It was disappointing that both players acted the way they did. I seen day 1 and 3 and it looked like Mike was just sticking up for himself mostly.

The mic's were great, it was interesting to hear what they were saying when they weren't acting like a 5 year old and a 12 year old.


Thanks for what you do for pool Jcin. Hopefully you get a little more respect over the next few matches.

 

[champ2107]

You treat pool players like Marines Joey. See how many return your calls. Punishing one person for the acts of another may work in boot camp but it won't go over real well in what I do. Nor does it make a lot of sense. How would you like it if your co worker did something and you got docked for it? I would assume the leadership wasn't creative or energetic enough to address the problem at it's source. Probably start looking for a new place to work too.

Both guys contacted me since last night. Both basically said the same thing which is they let the other guy get to them and things got a little out of hand. The fact that both guys were man enough to contact me on their own and discuss the situation is a big positive to me. What happens in the future we will just have to wait and see.

Hmmm...Justin you’re basically in the very early stages of forming something here for pro players, “maybe you’re the one!” (matrix lol) Maybe punishing one person for the act of another is a good thing for you? Laying the foundation for the future?

Im quoting the above here “How would you like it if your co worker did something and you got docked for it?” performance bonus is what we do at my work and if one guy does not carry his weight we all get shafted


Think about this and keep up the good work!!

 

[robsnotes4u]

good to hear

You treat pool players like Marines Joey. See how many return your calls. Punishing one person for the acts of another may work in boot camp but it won't go over real well in what I do. Nor does it make a lot of sense. How would you like it if your co worker did something and you got docked for it? I would assume the leadership wasn't creative or energetic enough to address the problem at it's source. Probably start looking for a new place to work too.

Both guys contacted me since last night. Both basically said the same thing which is they let the other guy get to them and things got a little out of hand. The fact that both guys were man enough to contact me on their own and discuss the situation is a big positive to me. What happens in the future we will just have to wait and see.

Thanks for the good stuff JCIN, seems most people only want to hear the bad. Competition is tough, and after listening to the podcast I can see why Dennis would fight so hard for the money.

I believe you have the right idea, and you are going in the right direction.

 

[Hungarian]

Dale Carnegie anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNV_BMFylHs



Or this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkTmAoS-kcs

 

[spanky79]

You treat pool players like Marines Joey. See how many return your calls. Punishing one person for the acts of another may work in boot camp but it won't go over real well in what I do. Nor does it make a lot of sense. How would you like it if your co worker did something and you got docked for it? I would assume the leadership wasn't creative or energetic enough to address the problem at it's source. Probably start looking for a new place to work too.

Both guys contacted me since last night. Both basically said the same thing which is they let the other guy get to them and things got a little out of hand. The fact that both guys were man enough to contact me on their own and discuss the situation is a big positive to me. What happens in the future we will just have to wait and see.

I am happy to hear both guys realized they where shooting themselves in the foot and maned up and called to discuss it.
The question is, did they call because they want more free money in the future or did they realize they acted like fools and felt bad about it. I guess that is for you to figure out. Keep it up, on to the next one.

 

[watchez]

Your studio - your rules - your stream - and most importantly - your money

Give them a warning and next action is a $500 fine.

But like you said, it's hard when you are reacting how a co worker is acting and then get penalized for it. What will happen when Alex gets in this matchup and is being himself and simply trying to be funny? The guy he is beating on might not think it is so funny.

Good luck JCIN - you always do what is right so I am sure you will figure this out as well.

 

[mikeyfrost]

Who cares anymore???? No offense but we get the US Open tourneys, BCA's, and most importantly SVB VS ARCHER!!!! There's some high quality shit in store man!!!