Hello Az, current Transaction problem with Forum memeber Via

manwon

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
Recently I bought a couple of spots in an action started by forum member via for a Varney Jump Break cue. I spent $40 and bought 4 spots in the auction and I was notified on November 11th that I won. All communication from this point forward was very professional until I received the cue and I discovered that it was not as described by the seller.

This is the sellers description of the cue in question:

"Up for Raffle
Brand new Kevin Varney Jump Break Cue
Birdeye Maple Forearm & Alves Butt Sleeve
19.2 oz.
13mm shaft with phenolic tip
large 3/8-10 radial joint pins
no nicks, dents or scratches! 100% mint"

Below is a link to the auction in question:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=161307

When the cue arrived there was no sign of damage to the packaging which is every surprising considering that the cue was shipped from Asia in only a paper wrapping not a cardboard tube or box. When I removed the cue from it's package and inspected it I found the following problems.

1) The wood around the ferrule had swollen leaving a ridge.

2) Next the cues butt has a major wobble at the jump joint, that could be due to facing, the pin or the female threaded section

All the above was checked on my lathe when turning between centers and the run out at that joint was beyond .40.

Now I immediately contacted Via about this these problems and below is my Pm's and his response:

My first PM sent to Via:

Hello I received the cue today, but there are some problems - 11-20-2009, 09:59 PM

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Hey Bud, I received the cue today but the butt has a major wobble at the joint for the jump handle. In addition the ferrule is smaller then the shaft.

Even though I could most likely fix these problems I do not want to touch this cue. So, give me a cue maker in the States to send it to to have it repaired, and I will send it to them.

Please understand this has nothing to do with how I personally feel about Varney, the cue is just screwed up and I want it fixed so I can sell it.

I will wait for your reply


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Put your heart into America or get your A$$ out of it



Craig W. Rittel
Full Splice Billiards

His response:

Re: Hello I received the cue today, but there are some problems - 11-21-2009, 03:11 PM

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i sent a brand new varney that is perfect. i don't understand why u said the ferrule is smaller and the butt has roll?

My next PM:

Re: Hello I received the cue today, but there are some problems - 11-21-2009, 08:42 PM

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I think I was very clear in my statement, so please recommend some one on the board that it can be sent to for repair. Like I said above the ferrule has either shrunk or the wood has expanded around it. The cues butt has a major roll in the Joint where it breaks down for jumping, so the butt wobbles.

Now, none of this was described in your action statement, so I kinda figure that you never checked it and that the problems came like this from Varney. There is no obvious sign of any damage from shipping, so the problems must be pre-existing. Any way, I do not what to cause any trouble for you over this, I just want it right so I can sell it. This is why I gave you a choice where I should send it, some one you trust so that they can tell you that there is a problem and then fix it.

I would recommend Ryan form Ratcues here on the forum, he well known and very honest.

Like I said I do not want this to blow up into any kinda of thread where people are thrown under the Bus, I am giving you the opportunity to take care of this.

Please let me know what you want to do.


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Put your heart into America or get your A$$ out of it



Craig W. Rittel
Full Splice Billiards

His reply:

Re: Hello I received the cue today, but there are some problems - 11-23-2009, 11:20 AM

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ship it back to me using the address on the shipping . once i received it, i will refund you. thank you

Now I find the statement above interesting, this was not the sale of cue it was an auction, so if I send the cue back to him and get my $40 I lose a couple of hundred on this deal, and he gets the cue back and sells it again for double profit.

My next PM to Via:

Fw: Hello I received the cue today, but there are some problems - 11-22-2009, 10:41 PM

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Hello, maybe you did not check your Pm's today, I know I always don't feel like checking mine either. Please let me know what you want to do, I am not unreasonable, so please suggest what you think is fair.

Take Care

While Via was on line throughout the day no Pm / response was sent.

My next Pm to Via:

I do not want a refund, I want the problem corrected. Why should I loose out on a cue that I can make money on when it is fixed. It most likely will not cost that much to fix.

What is the problem with sending the cue to a third party to verify that a problem exists and to then have it fixed?

I do not believe that you are dishonest, I also do not believe that you are trying to get over and I have said that from the beginning.

Lets handle this the easiest way possible and end this debate, I feel like you are questioning my integrity by not believing that there is a problem. But that is OK, I understand it is most likely my history with Varney.

Please handle this fairly that is all I want.

My last and final PM to Via:

Varney Cue - Today, 12:15 AM

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This will be my last attempt to settle this issue with you, I have tried to be very understanding and respectful of you to this point. You have stopped replying to my Pm's and yet you have been on the forum every day, to me this speaks volumes to me personally.

I am going to send the cue to a well respected cue maker on the forum so that he can verify and correct the problems. Then I am going to personally out you for the way you handled this situation so that others know how you chose to do business. This entire situation could have been take care of for $40 or $50 most likely and yet you feel that the only route is to return the cue for a refund of my raffle payments and with shipping at my expense to China.

I am sorry but your solution doesn't work for me, because I will get $40 refunded and then you can sell the same cue again and double your profit, all I can say is wrong idea Bubba.

Take Care


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What does everyone think of this situation am I wrong or am I right. I personally do no think I have been out of line with this gentleman in any way, however, I am losing patients with him. If any one out there is his Friend talk with Via, I am not asking for anything except what I deserve.

JIMO
 
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That is pretty slick trying to give you a refund. He makes 360 and keeps the cue. It is a messed up situation for sure. Maybe during shipping the cue became very humid. I hope it works out for you.
 
jensen_lover said:
That is pretty slick trying to give you a refund. He makes 360 and keeps the cue. It is a messed up situation for sure. Maybe during shipping the cue became very humid. I hope it works out for you.
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The problem is not from shipping, either the pin is not straight, the female section bored and threaded in the handle is not straight, or the facing is way out. Like I said any of this can be corrected very easily, hell I could correct it myself but why should I have to when some one things that I am not being honest in the first place.

Thanks for your opinion
 
In a different country you would have been silenced by now. You American cowboy.
 
Fast Lenny said:
Sounds like it came that way from Varney and he should fix it. :cool:
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Lenny, I don't care who fixes it except for Kevin, because I doubt he would admit that there was a problem in the first place. Via, doesn't believe that a problem exists, and it was his responsibility make sure it was perfect before he shipped it to me. By having a third party correct the problem no can say it did not exist.

Another interesting fact about this cue is that it is not signed and dated by Varney. Now the cue was advertised as new from Varney, but maybe if was actually refinished or sold as defective and that is why it is not signed.

I hope Via joins in soon!!
 
Is there any possibility that he didn't send you a Varney? I didn't see that mentioned but I did see that it came from China and we both know that the scruples about selling counterfeit goods are not always the best in that area.

And most Varney cues I have seen are pretty easy to create a fake from just the pictures.
 
JB Cases said:
Is there any possibility that he didn't send you a Varney? I didn't see that mentioned but I did see that it came from China and we both know that the scruples about selling counterfeit goods are not always the best in that area.

And most Varney cues I have seen are pretty easy to create a fake from just the pictures.
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I thought about that because the was not signed, but I have seen enough of Kevins work to know a Varney Cue when I see one, and this is a Varney Cue!!:wink:

Thanks for your thoughts John
 
I wonder . . .

am I going to go to hell for laughing at the idea of somebody counterfeiting a varney cue? That is about as bad as me getting three counterfeit one dollar bills a few years ago. I mean if you are gonna counterfeit something . . .


Forgot to add, smooth move on the raffler's part. Maybe I'll get into the raffle thing after all. If somebody doesn't like what I send them I'll just give them their money back too!

Hu




manwon said:
I thought about that because the was not signed, but I have seen enough of Kevins work to know a Varney Cue when I see one, and this is a Varney Cue!!:wink:

Thanks for your thoughts John
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ShootingArts said:
am I going to go to hell for laughing at the idea of somebody counterfeiting a varney cue? That is about as bad as me getting three counterfeit one dollar bills a few years ago. I mean if you are gonna counterfeit something . . .


Forgot to add, smooth move on the raffler's part. Maybe I'll get into the raffle thing after all. If somebody doesn't like what I send them I'll just give them their money back too!

Hu
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Or like the guy in one of the Balkan nations who counterfeited something like 60 million worth of their currency when it was hyperinflated and the real value even if the money were genuine was like $50 US.

I was only thinking it because Kevin doesn't have a lot of cues out there and they are all similar but not the same and it would be easy to make a look-a-like of any of them and even switch it around a little with no one but Kevin able to see from the pictures if he made it or not.
 
It's a tough situation Craig. If he does a refund then it should be to everyone in the raffle and then he can have the cue back.

Because at this point it's not just you but everyone who is out the money.

Your point is valid though, what happens if he gets the cue back? The chances of you or anyone getting their money back are slim at best.

I think that you are in the right, and probably in the end you are going to have to fix it yourself and move on.
 
JB Cases said:
It's a tough situation Craig. If he does a refund then it should be to everyone in the raffle and then he can have the cue back.

Because at this point it's not just you but everyone who is out the money.

Your point is valid though, what happens if he gets the cue back? The chances of you or anyone getting their money back are slim at best.

I think that you are in the right, and probably in the end you are going to have to fix it yourself and move on.
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John for me it is not about $40, for that amount of money you go into a shoe store and come out with one shoe!!!!!!:grin:

But I suspect your right, but I will not fix the cue myself after my integrity has been brought into question by Via. I am going to send it to Ryan at Ratcues, Ryan is well respected and he will give an honest opinion concerning the problems. I don't care what it costs to have it fixed considering what I have into it, I will get my money back +. Also, by sending it out to an uninterested third party it will prove without a doubt that everything is as I have said they are.

The reason I know for sure that it is a varney cue is because no one else make gaps at the joints like Varney does, in addition to the Satin Finish that Kevin is famous for.

I hope this thread helps others out when dealing with Via, this individual really needs to re-evaluate the way he deals with other forum members. I also hope he sees this thread and offers his side of things, hell maybe I will Pm him a link!!!:wink:

Take Care John
 
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I think you have a refinished Varney. It was probably abused to include the bent pin and the swollen wood behind the ferrule. You know as well as I do is that all it takes is a couple of times "left in the trunk of a car" while its hot out and the cue is warped. The fact that it doesn't have a Varney signature means it was probably refinished.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put a pin in straight and aline a cue. It's cue making 101 and I'm sure Kevin knows how to do this. I have had 2 Varney Jump Break cues and both were perfectly straight at the jump joint.

As much as you dislike Varney I thought it was ironic that you won one in a raffle. Now you have one that was probably refinished and abused which is even more ironic.

I do feel for you however and am sorry to see this happen. I could pickup the cue and have Greg Sowder (Sowder Cues) fix it for you if you like and wouldn't cost much. Greg does great work and I'm sure he can fix it. Let me know if I could be of any help.
 
One more thing I just noticed about your Varney. The butt cap is black and a different color than the joint and jump joint. Every Varney I ever seen had the same color joint, jump joint and butt cap. Has the butt cap been replaced? If so, why? Leads me to believe the cue has been abused and the butt cap replaced and the cue refinished. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the pin was also bent from abuse.
 
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TWOFORPOOL said:
I think you have a refinished Varney. It was probably abused to include the bent pin and the swollen wood behind the ferrule. You know as well as I do is that all it takes is a couple of times "left in the trunk of a car" while its hot out and the cue is warped. The fact that it doesn't have a Varney signature means it was probably refinished.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put a pin in straight and aline a cue. It's cue making 101 and I'm sure Kevin knows how to do this. I have had 2 Varney Jump Break cues and both were perfectly straight at the jump joint.

As much as you dislike Varney I thought it was ironic that you won one in a raffle. Now you have one that was probably refinished and abused which is even more ironic.

I do feel for you however and am sorry to see this happen. I could pickup the cue and have Greg Sowder (Sowder Cues) fix it for you if you like and wouldn't cost much. Greg does great work and I'm sure he can fix it. Let me know if I could be of any help.
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I really don't think the cue was refinished but it is possible, as far the signature being missing I have also forgot to sign cues I have built. A few minutes ago I was contacted by a cue maker on the forum and I am going to send the cue to him for repair. When he is finished with it he is going to write a review of the repairs this way there will be no question.

But to set the record straight the cue shows no signs of being left in a car or of being abused in anyway. Like I said I have seen a number of Varney cues and the work in this cue has not been altered, the finish is Kevin's satin Finish, and the gaps at the joints are also how Kevin builds them to stop finish chips at those locations.

The wood is not really swollen behind the ferrule, as much as the ferrule has pushed back into the wood because it appears to not have been seated properly.

But, please lets not get off track here, this is not a bash varney thread, this thread was started to make a seller do the right thing and nothing else, if the truth be known I really don't care why the cue is screwed up. I only care that the seller is not doing his part to resolve this issue in a fair manner and that he has questioned my integrity.:wink:

Take care
 
Manwon is a person of true integrity...IF he says something then you can believe it 100%..............................I hope this VIA person takes care of the problem to satisfy you Craig....Take care and keep us posted...:)
 
IMHO...I think he should refund $360 to you!! You bought a chance for a value of $360. Am I right? If the cue isn't worth want he promised then the cash value should go to you.
I just don't see any other way! He needs to back his auction product. You are definately in the right, Manwon. Hope Via does the RIGHT thing for you!! He should know that the AZB Community will be watching this one very closely!! Good Luck!!

Nancy
 
Just admitt yourself to the nearest VA for out patient Counseling

Hello Craig, I used to like reading your posts, you love billiards, pool , cue making, and you have plenty to offer. but something(snapped in your head) Do you take meds ? If not you ought to consider them. life's short enough- telling us you entered a raffle for a Varney.(after all the bashing) and you got your 02 cents here. Send the cue and have ryan fix it. and then go directly to the VA with the cue in hand. See the Doc- and use Varneys name. wishing you all the best Craig- The Va stuff is Free remember you earned it- keep your head up - You can't make anybody feel anything but you keep trying why? I did rewrite this Craig- I don't want you to think I'm bashing you!
 
HollyWood said:
Hello Craig, I used to like reading your posts, you love billiards, pool , cue making, and you have plenty to offer. but something(snapped in your head) Do you take meds ? If not you ought to consider them. life's short enough- telling us you entered a raffle for a Varney.(after all the bashing) and you got your 02 cents here. Send the cue and have ryan fix it. and then go directly to the VA with the cue in hand. See the Doc- and use Varneys name. wishing you all the best Craig- The Va stuff is Free remember you earned it- keep your head up - You can't make anybody feel anything but you keep trying why? I did rewrite this Craig- I don't want you to think I'm bashing you!
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Thanks for your reponse, but please explain what it is based upon? I am bashing no one, I am threatening no one, I have not made a single comment about Varney in this that was negative.

Like I said I do not need the money, and in reality I do not need anyone to fix the cue, I can do that myself. But, I refuse to allow anyone to question my integrity, and then try to get over on personally. If you don't understand that please save your comments. I really do not want this to become a thread where bashing is all that is acomplished.

Have a nice day, and say hello to Kevin and assure him that while I know for a fact he did not want me in this auction ( He asked the seller to stop me from Bidding) this is not about him or you.
 
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