Help with cue tip contact point.

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well I have nothing to back up my assumptions, but if I were to hazard a guess I'd venture a yes, a good thing.

The whole point is to get the chalk to stay on the tip. If a pick means I can get tiny little bits of chalk filling tiny little holes on the tip surface, I can't think of a down side.

I'm sure I'm over stating the whole "embed the chalk" concept. Just figured the pick makes holes, and I push the chalk into the them, so it must fill them to some degree...lol
thanks j
how much an effect it has either way, I don't know
but instinctively, I don't like my food mixed up
as it was designed, let the tip be the tip
if I want the chalk to stay on
I pick a good one (master), and apply well
that seems to work ok enough
but then maybe chalk+tip is a tasty combo, so I ask ^_^
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
if I want the chalk to stay on
I pick a good one (master), and apply well
that seems to work ok enough
Fair enough... I do find that playing with a hard tip makes repeated chalking more of a must. Even with the pick it doesn't take long for the surface to glaze over again.

I use a yellow master chalk as well, and wouldn't go with anything else for sake of not having to pick the tip on occassion. I'm sure one of those pasty 'use once per day' chalks might adhere well without a pick or shaper, but again I like the stuff I'm using.

If you rough the tip at all, you're essentially doing the same thing as the pick/chalk/embed process. The valleys just aren't as sharp(?)...
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I'm sure I'm over stating the whole "embed the chalk" concept. Just figured the pick makes holes, and I push the chalk into the them, so it must fill them to some degree...lol
Makes sense to me - so it's probably wrong. :)

pj
chgo
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... I'm sure I'm over stating the whole "embed the chalk" concept. Just figured the pick makes holes, and I push the chalk into the them, so it must fill them to some degree...lol
I think you have to consider individual grains of the abrasive (silica?) between the ball and the leather. I picture them during tip-ball contact as being pressed mostly into the leather. Any pick hole I can imagine seems too large to be useful in that situation. Also, does the binder do anything useful during contact? Clearly we need more research.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I think you have to consider individual grains of the abrasive (silica?) between the ball and the leather. I picture them during tip-ball contact as being pressed mostly into the leather. Any pick hole I can imagine seems too large to be useful in that situation. Also, does the binder do anything useful during contact? Clearly we need more research.
The binder being the other stuff in chalk (that "binds" the silica grains)?

pj
chgo
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
There's probably a whole dedicated sub-forum for this topic, but something to give a go if you don't mind experimenting is a pick.
View attachment 584060
I have been using hard tips for nearly 20yrs, and opt for this tool. It roughs the surface by creating pockets and allows chalk to embed. Really no different than anything else in that regard. The bonus is that it does not remove any material like an abrasive and subsequently does not alter the shape.
It also raises the edges of the pockets a little when pulled out, "roughing" the surface without any loss of material. Perfect tool for the job, IMO.

pj <- and it recycles old phonograph needles
chgo
For my own curiosity, I took a couple of pics of my tip pick (the "bowtie" type with nickel and dime shapers on the ends) and my tip just after picking it and then just after chalking it.

It's a 9.5mm tip, so viewed this close up it looks more "roughed up" than it really is and the holes look bigger than they are. The chalk on the tip in first tip pic is left from after I wiped it off (before putting it in my case) yesterday - the roughness in the second pic of the tip (after chalking) is just the edges of those holes pulled up a little as the pik is removed.

pj
chgo

pik 1.JPG
pik2.JPG


tip1.JPG
tip2.JPG
 
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The_JV

Local_Pro
For my own curiosity, I took a couple of pics of my Tip Pik (the "bowtie" type with nickel and dime shapers on the ends) and my tip just after picking it and then just after chalking it. It's a 9.5mm tip, so viewed this close up it looks more "roughed up" than it really is and the holes look bigger than they are. The chalk on the tip in first tip pic is left from after I wiped it off (before putting it in my case) yesterday - the roughness in the second pic of the tip (after chalking) is just the edges of those holes pulled up a little as the pik is removed.

pj
chgo
Mine is the el'cheapie version I posted back a few pages. No shaping tools at all for this guy.

Are you the push and roll type, or a stabber...? I'm a stabber. Probably don't reach the same depth when stabbing, but there's no rule about pulling it out agian if the need be...lol
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I never understood the logic in punching holes in the tip. Roughing it with a sandpaper-like instrument makes sense to me. Hole punching still confuses me.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I never understood the logic in punching holes in the tip. Roughing it with a sandpaper-like instrument makes sense to me. Hole punching still confuses me.
It's not about the holes - it's about the edges of the holes being pulled up as the needles are withdrawn, roughing the tip without removing any leather. My first pic doesn't show that as clearly as the second one.

pj
chgo
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I roll the scuffer- it's quicker and more uniform. You gotta watch the sides with the pick. I use a Creative Inventions scuff slug. I believe it's a Porper product. It's a 1"x 3/4" slug with machined grit on both sides. Prolly a familiar tool. Anyway I roll the flat side and it puts some serious rough without cutting. Went a couple years on an Elkmaster before it wore down.
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I never understood the logic in punching holes in the tip. Roughing it with a sandpaper-like instrument makes sense to me. Hole punching still confuses me.
I've admittedly never tried the hole punching method, tho it's because I agree I don't get the concept in the first place
I like the tool here: https://www.last4ever.com/
"2 - Center Right: Recessed flat side to Scuff tip without removing any leather material. Recessed so it will not scratch furniture"

I will say (and I don't know if this applies to anyone else)
that using that tool leaves very tiny shards in my tip-
so I rub the tip over, after I use the scuffer- no probs
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
I never understood the logic in punching holes in the tip. Roughing it with a sandpaper-like instrument makes sense to me. Hole punching still confuses me.
Sandpaper is an abrasive that tears the surface of the tip potentially removing material. The point in the tears (scratches, rough surface) is to make the tip an abrasive as to remove chalk particles from the cube.

A pick is not used as an abrasive will not remove material. As you push the pick into the tip the material it displaces flares upward (only place to go) which makes the surface rough and again an abrasive.

The end game for either is the same. A rough tip surface to abrade chalk particles from the cube you use. One has the potential to alter the shape of you tip over time. The other does not.

Really a moot point if someone is the type to cycle through tips in a regular fashion or requires reshaping. I used to play with very hard tips and would go for years before swapping them out. I choose not to limit their otherwise very long life with an abrasive/shaper.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
I roll the scuffer- it's quicker and more uniform. You gotta watch the sides with the pick. I use a Creative Inventions scuff slug. I believe it's a Porper product. It's a 1"x 3/4" slug with machined grit on both sides. Prolly a familiar tool. Anyway I roll the flat side and it puts some serious rough without cutting. Went a couple years on an Elkmaster before it wore down.
Yes, picks can make a mess if use haphazardly...

Sound like what you're doing is using the scuffer as a pick :). I mean you're embossing the scuffer's pattern in the tip. This is exactly what a pick does. In what I would consider a "safer" fashion then a pick. As you said, you need to be careful with the pick.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, picks can make a mess if use haphazardly...

Sound like what you're doing is using the scuffer as a pick :). I mean you're embossing the scuffer's pattern in the tip. This is exactly what a pick does. In what I would consider a "safer" fashion then a pick. As you said, you need to be careful with the pick.
Very important because that outer edge is where the roughness needs to be. With the pik, it's very easy to weaken the sides, leading to tears/cracking and eventual separation from the ferrule.

The tool is sold as a tapper which works well enough but rolling the tip as with a flat file works even better. The cool part is the teeth are pointt like a tapper and work without tearing - like a tapper.
 
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