Help with cue tip contact point.

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's definitely more aggressive then the usual tip shapers/abrasives I have run across. That tool is something I would only use to emboss with. Based on the picture it looks like it would shred a tip if rubbed instead of pressed. I have zero experience with one, so I'll bow to your knowledge of it.

If I ever see one, I'll take a closer look. I tend not to fix things that aren't broken so I don't know if I'd stray from the typical pick I use now though.

Thanks for posting the picture
Yeah that's the shaper side. It'll rough a tip from disc to frazzly thing a trough can handle. The tapper side is flat and quite useful.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's where the big death gun comes out. I tell people it's the nose of the tip and doesn't get scuffed much with the rotation method. Tapping it or the pik would work there but doesn't seem to be necessary.
You seem to be a tip wrangler of the first order - a real aficionado -- so let me ask you what I asked PJ. Why do you bother with any of this? I have never messed with my tip and I pretty much never miscue. Did you have miscue problems that caused you to get so all of this tip business or is there some other reason?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You seem to be a tip wrangler of the first order - a real aficionado -- so let me ask you what I asked PJ. Why do you bother with any of this? I have never messed with my tip and I pretty much never miscue. Did you have miscue problems that caused you to get so all of this tip business or is there some other reason?
I like a uniform layer of chalk on the tip; doesn't happen if the tip isn't uniformly scuffed.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You seem to be a tip wrangler of the first order - a real aficionado -- so let me ask you what I asked PJ. Why do you bother with any of this? I have never messed with my tip and I pretty much never miscue. Did you have miscue problems that caused you to get so all of this tip business or is there some other reason?
Dan, what tip do you use and what hardness? Are you saying that you never have to scuff it or shape it? Do you play only 14.1 or other games as well?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Steel roll-plate material. Guitar-violin maker/repair guys buy this by the sheet to make special sized files. https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-too...s-for-sanding/stewmac-sharkskin-abrasive.html

Kinda like this thing. I only use these for shaping. They don't clog like paper.

s-l640.jpg
 

Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I tried a piece of blue chalk. No real difference.

Any ideas about my other question, why my impact point is still well above where I'm aiming on the CB?
Video analysis will show you why this is happening!

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
 
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dquarasr

Registered
Video analysis will show you why this is happening!

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
I’ve recorded myself. As much as I try I am really fighting to keep my elbow up. If I am not laser-focused on resisting dropping my elbow, I do indeed drop it, some times more than others. Even my best attempts result in a small drop which does result in contact point on CB slightly above aim. I’m working on it but I’ve resigned myself to follow Mark’s book and fix stance and stroke issues before fixing this particular problem. It’s a process and I’ve only just begun.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I tried a piece of blue chalk. No real difference.

Any ideas about my other question, why my impact point is still well above where I'm aiming on the CB?
Sometimes our subconscious vetoes our aiming decisions because it knows we're not good enough for that aim yet. Here's a pic I've posted before illustrating what I mean.

Nobody hits their tip/ball target exactly every time - we make "shot groups" around it - better strokes hit closer to their target, creating smaller "shot groups". Tighter shot groups allow us to aim closer to the limit without miscuing too often. Our subconscious learns this limitation, sometimes better/faster than we do - and it can "intervene" when we get too ambitious, steering our stroke a little to a safer "target".

Black circles below are miscue limits. Blue dots are shot groups; red dots are safe targets for each.

pj
chgo

Shot Groups.jpg
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dan, what tip do you use and what hardness? Are you saying that you never have to scuff it or shape it? Do you play only 14.1 or other games as well?
I used to use Moori mediums but more lately I think they are Everest medium. Definitely not rock hard. I play 14.1 pretty much exclusively now but also do some drills where i am hitting more 9 ball type shots. Had this tip for over a year and hasn't mushroomed. I stopped messing with the tip probably 20 years ago. I also play with Brunswick balls that are cleaned with the Aramith ball cleaner. I don't use waxes so the balls aren't all that slick. Usually, in truth, don't use the cleaner that often, just put them in the ball machine so maybe they aren't as slippery as other balls.

Playing pool I learned that you MUST chalk your cue frequently or you will miscue. I never heard you MUST fiddle with your tip frequently or you will miscue. I'm not saying it isn't necessary under certain circumstances but it definitely isn't for me. Curious, is all.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used to use Moori mediums but more lately I think they are Everest medium. Definitely not rock hard. I play 14.1 pretty much exclusively now but also do some drills where i am hitting more 9 ball type shots. Had this tip for over a year and hasn't mushroomed. I stopped messing with the tip probably 20 years ago. I also play with Brunswick balls that are cleaned with the Aramith ball cleaner. I don't use waxes so the balls aren't all that slick. Usually, in truth, don't use the cleaner that often, just put them in the ball machine so maybe they aren't as slippery as other balls.

Playing pool I learned that you MUST chalk your cue frequently or you will miscue. I never heard you MUST fiddle with your tip frequently or you will miscue. I'm not saying it isn't necessary under certain circumstances but it definitely isn't for me. Curious, is all.
Interesting....I used to use Moori mediums and then switched to Kamaui Black soft which were about the equivalent in hardness. I played mostly 9 ball and I found that I had to shape the tip quite often when it started getting flat and I also had to scuff it regularly because it would frequently get smooth -- and chalking was part of my pre shot routine so it was never an issue of not enough chalk.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I tried a piece of blue chalk. No real difference.

Any ideas about my other question, why my impact point is still well above where I'm aiming on the CB?
Look at your original pictures. The position and angle of your right hand in the picture "stroke just before impact" is where they should be "at impact". I think that's what I'm seeing in the pictures but due to angle, etc it could be deceiving.
I would try moving your right hand (while keeping your bridge hand stationary) back about 2 inches. Change nothing but that. Do this when your tip is right at the CB. The relationship of the tip to the CB should not change. If it does then you moved something else in addition to your right hand. It will feel uncomfortable, try it anyway.
Now do everything you've been doing (practice strokes, etc) exactly the same as before. Do this while shooting a shot, maybe a fairly easy 2-3 foot shot, medium speed, intending to draw back say 3 feet.
I said the same as usual but you might want to change a few things. Think about and/or do these things before getting down to shoot. Use a regular CB. Whatever your grip pressure is, lighten it even more. Increase the speed about 25 percent. Forget (completely) about your elbow.
When down ready to shoot if you have to think about anything other than "nothing" then the thought should be "smooth".
Oh, almost forgot, chalk up.

Might work, or not. Best thing would be to go to the poolroom, ask who the best player is then ask them if they'd be amenable to you asking a few questions over drinks which you'll be buying. Just don't be buying Billy Thorpe any drinks please.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
Playing pool I learned that you MUST chalk your cue frequently or you will miscue. I never heard you MUST fiddle with your tip frequently or you will miscue. I'm not saying it isn't necessary under certain circumstances but it definitely isn't for me. Curious, is all.
Chalking my cue for every shot was ingrained into my game back in my snooker days. The reality for me is, on occassion I push the miscue limits and if my stroke happens to be off at that moment, the worst case happens. The hard tips I was playing with did not like to hold on to chalk, and I do not like that pasty stuff some people are using these days. The light use of a pick is more of a physiological thing for me. It allows me to place the blame on the tip/chalk, and not dwell on the bad form.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sometimes our subconscious vetoes our aiming decisions because it knows we're not good enough for that aim yet. Here's a pic I've posted before illustrating what I mean.

Nobody hits their tip/ball target exactly every time - we make "shot groups" around it - better strokes hit closer to their target, creating smaller "shot groups". Tighter shot groups allow us to aim closer to the limit without miscuing too often. Our subconscious learns this limitation, sometimes better/faster than we do - and it can "intervene" when we get too ambitious, steering our stroke a little to a safer "target".

Black circles below are miscue limits. Blue dots are shot groups; red dots are safe targets for each.

pj
chgo

View attachment 584586
Your subconscious mind can't reason. It only reacts in the way that it's taught to react. It doesn't know if the player is good enough or not good enough, like you wrote here. When it encounters a certain situation, it will cause you to react in the way that you trained it to cause you to react. The only thing that will change that reaction is if the conscious mind takes over the response.

If a player is striking the ball in a different place than the aim point at setup, then the angle of attack has changed at some point during the shot execution. I think the OP is not talking about an acceptable area of change. He's talking about a significant change which means at some point during his stroke, he is changing the pool cue's angle of attack pretty significantly. But 'significantly' is a relative term. In pool, it could mean that it's still not easy to detect with the naked eye.
 
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