Here Are Two Examples

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
just thought i would make sure everybody is aware of what i am talking about when i say that i botch simple shots/runouts. these two are a couple of doozy's from last night.

Shot 1.
All i had to do is follow up close to the rail and i had a shot on the 5-Ball. instead i slightly undercut the 4-Ball into the side pocket, didnt have enough speed since i hit it slightly fuller, and ended up at Point A behind the 7-Ball. runout over.

CueTable Help




Shot 2.
Just simply wanted to hit the 4-Ball with some right english, go down to the short rail, and let the english spin it up to around Point A for position on the 5-Ball. but i didnt get enough english, or enough speed. therefore i ended up behind the 6-Ball at Point B. runout over.


CueTable Help

 
Looks like you had the right idea's. Perhaps you didn't have a feel for the table roll/speed? I suggest that because it looks like you came up short on both shots regarding distance.

I have had this happen numerous times where the hit or english I put on the cue just doesn't get to where I expected but with a lil more power next time, it does. Especially when first starting to shoot/warmup on a table at the hall or bar.

ez
 
DCP

Shot #1 - You could have tapped the 7 slightly... that would have gave you an angle of the 5, but you could have drew back to put the 7 in the side. IMO, you messed up getting the wrong angle on the 4 ball. That usually has a snowball effect as the rack goes on.

In shot # 2, you should have gone 2 rails instead of 1 (posket the 4, hit bottom rail, then next rail to get on the 5).

Like I have said to you before, you have major problems with your patterns. I would recommend establishing a firm foundation in your game by playing straight pool. That is where you will learn the most about proper patterns and position play.
 
In situation#1, I would have stopped dead (like-->THIS) to use the cut angle on the 5 to pull the CB back for the 7 in the side. Therefore, I would not have taken the risk you did...and you paid for.

In situation#2, prior to shooting you should decide what diamond you want to hit on the end rail such that you will not end up behind the 6 after rebounding off it. If you don't know how to predict this with certainty, you need to get Lil Joe's second DVD so you can learn about tangent lines and how to divert the CB (predictably) from it. In this particular case, a center CB would take you near the 2nd diamond. I would prefer to hit another 1/2 diamond up the rail (like-->THIS) so I would use a little draw. How much draw to use is discussed in the video.

EDIT: Added to cuetables for your reference. It looks like Blackjack & I are on the same wavelength. Hooray for me!
 
Last edited:
first layout - you were thinking bad, totally wrong side (slightly depending on if you had a full upper right corner). blackjack is drunk (lucky him) so go with mosconiac's.

second layout - anywhere on the left side but where you put it is ok and that's why you end up there. that was the spot you thought of.

dude, why not use your golf skills? you know the green, and you know what area on the green to land that damn ball considering length, spin and contour to roll up close to that hole. that's friggin hard! your head's not 5 feet above the cue ball i hope, and your table isn't anywhere near 97 yards?? you can even put delicate little sidespin on the damn ball...
 
olauzon said:
first layout - you were thinking bad, totally wrong side (slightly depending on if you had a full upper right corner). blackjack is drunk (lucky him) so go with mosconiac's.

second layout - anywhere on the left side but where you put it is ok and that's why you end up there. that was the spot you thought of.

dude, why not use your golf skills? you know the green, and you know what area on the green to land that damn ball considering length, spin and contour to roll up close to that hole. that's friggin hard! your head's not 5 feet above the cue ball i hope, and your table isn't anywhere near 97 yards?? you can even put delicate little sidespin on the damn ball...
Click to expand...

Why the insults to Blackjack and DCP?? Who are you, anyway! Negative rep headed your way....

Flex
 
Oops, sorry, i goofed here. i put the 8-Ball on the table when i should have put the 6-Ball on the table in this shot. hope that clarifies my reasoning for attempting to play position like i did.

DCP

CueTable Help

 
DCP

FWIW, I still would have shot the 4 the same exact way. I think bumping the 7 makes sense because it keeps you from getting hooked behind it. Think about it. After the 4 is gone, just pocket the 5 and pop off that rail for a shot on the 6. After bumping the 7 on the intial shot, you can play it in the same corner as the 5 - or in the side - it depends how far you bump the 7 ball on the initial shot.

FTR... not drunk.

Blackjack: Alcohol free since December 6, 1986.
 
clarifies a whole lot dcp.

Flex said:
Why the insults to Blackjack and DCP?? Who are you, anyway! Negative rep headed your way....

Flex
Click to expand...

i'm sure these people can handle a joke as good as i can handle a colored dot from you mr perplex.

as for personal info; man, you got to learn to behave behind that screen.

edit; congrats blackjack. that's an achievement my kidneys need to venture in to.
 
Last edited:
I know that some people MAY learn from posts like this but maybe there should be a complete beginners section or something because WHO THE F doesn't know what to do here. Maybe spend more time using logic when you play instead of tring to remember all the racks you screw up. Really these are starting to make me sad. :(

Eric.
 
"Argue for your limitations and sure enough.. you got'em." Richard Bach
 
olauzon said:
clarifies a whole lot dcp.



i'm sure these people can handle a joke as good as i can handle a colored dot from you mr perplex.

as for personal info; man, you got to learn to behave behind that screen.

edit; congrats blackjack. that's an achievement my kidneys need to venture in to.
Click to expand...

Glad to learn you were only joking, as it sure didn't come off that way in your original post.

BTW, I'm not really interested in who you are; my question/statement was merely an exasperated rhetorical flourish.

Cheers!

Flex
 
olauzon said:
clarifies a whole lot dcp.



i'm sure these people can handle a joke as good as i can handle a colored dot from you mr perplex.

as for personal info; man, you got to learn to behave behind that screen.

edit; congrats blackjack. that's an achievement my kidneys need to venture in to.
Click to expand...

Olauzon,
I was not offended by your comment at all, as a matter of fact it made me laugh. As far that achievement, its just one day at a time. All credit goes to the man upstairs, not me.

I don't mind threads like this for one very important reason -

Not everybody that reads this forum actually posts. There are some people that read this forum and they never register. I have met several people at tournaments that have come up and told me that they read the forum, but they do not post, and then they tell me how I wrote something that helped their game. DCP's questions may seem a bit repetitive, but there are some people that are out there that are actually trying to learn the game and I believe that every little bit helps. There was time when I had a lot of questions too. I'm glad that I had the courage to ask all of those questions - and I'm glad that the people I asked were willing to answer those questions for me instead of laughing at me.

Like I said to you in my earlier post DCP, having a firm foundation in 14.1 is an awesome and powerful tool to have in your arsenal. Watch players that have awesome control of the cue ball such as Buddy Hall and Keith McCready. Watch how Buddy maintains his simplicity in his patterns and position - watch how Keith can make that rock dance and how he uses inside english - its pure genius. Neither of these players became great overnight. Ask them questions. Hell, you have access to Keith through this forum. I'm not telling you to call and make a pain in the ass out of yourself, I'm just saying that its a great opportunity to learn from one of the best ever.

In our game, we have the opportunity to be able to talk and ask questions with our legends. You can't do that in baseball or football or any other sport. Show up to a few pro tour events like the US Open and try to sweat a match with any top player - such as John Schmidt, SVB, or Johnny Archer. Pick their brains. Back in 1982 I must have asked Buddy Hall 4000 questions in less than 10 minutes. I did the same thing with Louie Roberts and Steve Mizerak. I was surprised at how motivated and excited they were to answer my questions and share their knowledge.

During your lesson with Scott Lee, you will learn the miracle of minor adjustments that create major progress. I recommend that you put everything that you have learned up to this point in your back pocket and show up with a winner's attitude. A closed mind is a brickwall for knowledge, but an open mind is a black hole for knowledge.

Good luck!
 
Well, I hate to say it Protege, but I think you do have the knowledge, but not the touch. You need both to continue to improve in leaps and bounds. Your plan was perfectly fine and I would have played it a similar way for sure (except you need to learn to go the extra rail to control the speed, see below- I suggested that in another post.) , and the position in both cases is very basic with tons of room for error.

When I was playing on-line pool, I found that people who never even played real pool could play position, angles, aim, line up shots, play rails, banks, etc. they had real knowledge of the virtual table and could "see" the shots and the shape. Get them on a real pool table and they wouldn't make much. They simply haven't built the coordination to execute what they "know" they should do.

Can you tell me how long you've been playing, and at what level you aspire to play?

Chris


CueTable Help

 
Last edited:
Blackjack said:
Olauzon,
INot everybody that reads this forum actually posts. There are some people that read this forum and they never register. I have met several people at tournaments that have come up and told me that they read the forum, but they do not post, and then they tell me how I wrote something that helped their game. DCP's questions may seem a bit repetitive, but there are some people that are out there that are actually trying to learn the game and I believe that every little bit helps.

During your lesson with Scott Lee, you will learn the miracle of minor adjustments that create major progress. I recommend that you put everything that you have learned up to this point in your back pocket and show up with a winner's attitude. A closed mind is a brickwall for knowledge, but an open mind is a black hole for knowledge.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

good point Blackjack! i get PMs on occassion from people telling me that they enjoy the threads i create about position play. and that they and their friends actually learn something from the responses.

and i am wholeheartedly going to take that attitude into the lesson with Scott Lee, looking forward to this!

DCP
 
I'm really surprised you fell short on shot 1. Getting the cueball to the rail with a slight angle like you had is as natural as rain.

Was it just a fluke? If you attempt the same shot 10 times now what would be your percentage to get to the rail?

I would think the only way it could be messed up is if the cue ball were closer to the object ball, and didn't have enough time to start to roll forward. In which case more follow than what you would use from a further distance would be required. But with the cue ball where it was, a soft stroke with natural roll should have gotten you there.
 
I haven't read all the responses, so this may be redundant, but here are my suggestions.

In the first shot if shooting the 4 in the side and following means you will miss the 7, then you play the cueball over to the side cushion and out a few inches for shape on the 5. That way you don't risk getting stuck behind the 7.

Having just re-read your description of the first shot it sounds like you did try to follow over to the cushion and out a few inches. If that is the case, then this is just a speed control issue. Short shots that require a good touch can be tricky, and I would recommend practicing them regularly. Also, you said you hit the 4 slightly more full than you wanted, which is why you ended up short. Even with hitting the 4 slightly more full you should be nowhere near stuck behind the 7. At the very least you should be over near the side cushion, though perhaps with a bad angle on the 5. Also, even the simplest looking of shots really require precise aiming and contact because of the need for shape and speed, so you should get in the practice of really honing in on your accuracy and speed control even on simple shots. It sounds like you got careless mentally and took pocketing the 4 for granted, which led to hitting it too full. Try to be deadly precise in your aiming and your speed control each and every shot.

In the second shot you draw the cueball slightly over toward the middle of the end cushion, then with natural (right) English you go over to the side cushion so that you are in effect playing shape off two cushions for the 5. That way you don't come anywhere close to the 6.
 
Last edited:
DrCue'sProtege said:
just thought i would make sure everybody is aware of what i am talking about when i say that i botch simple shots/runouts. these two are a couple of doozy's from last night.

Shot 1.
All i had to do is follow up close to the rail and i had a shot on the 5-Ball. instead i slightly undercut the 4-Ball into the side pocket, didnt have enough speed since i hit it slightly fuller, and ended up at Point A behind the 7-Ball. runout over.

CueTable Help




Shot 2.
Just simply wanted to hit the 4-Ball with some right english, go down to the short rail, and let the english spin it up to around Point A for position on the 5-Ball. but i didnt get enough english, or enough speed. therefore i ended up behind the 6-Ball at Point B. runout over.


CueTable Help

Click to expand...


hay man in the first table where were you planning on shooting the 7? if you left the cb where you wanted to your angle for getting back to the 7 looked pretty shallow. i would have tried to stop near where the 4 was for a better angle to draw off the 5 to the 7 in the side
 
man how good are you really? i've read in other post that you say you can run multiple racks but you seem to make some strange decissions on the table to me. missing shots is one thing everyone does that but you seem to make more mental mistakes that lead to missing. were you exagerating when you said you could run multiple racks?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top