or a 9foot table with tight pockets seems to let the better player win. not the better breaker,
Here comes a dead horse. SVB talk.
- Thread starter jhanso18
- Start date
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0H8UMyyQ3Y
Here Dennis pounds Shane in the finals of a tournament. Race to 11.
What happened to Alex then on the "Fatboy rails"
Look, I'm not saying Shane is the end all be all, in EVERY game. All around he's the best. I'd say he's top 3 in every game played, except straight pool.
Any race less than 15 isn't really a true representation of skill. Look what Shane did at the Open last year. I don't think that the gap in skill between him and Alex is as bad as what the score said.
The Shane doubters are in full effect, but look at what the kid has already done. Look at where he's going. Do any of you REALLY think you would step to the plate with 5k, 10k, or 20k to back one player against Shane? NO. All the hate comes from guys that just want to chirp, but not jump. I'd say state side Shane is the favorite, world wide, pry Dennis, for NOW. Shane will continue to work, and he'll get there. It's only a matter of time, he won't be out worked.
I don't think Shane or ANYONE for that matter can be consider the best for longer than a month or two it seems. Dennis O. is the only valid argument against Shane in the top spot. At best those two are an even match up. Denny will be a slight nod in some games, Shane will get it in others. The best argument you can make is that Shane shares the top spot with Dennis, and/or Busti. I'd say Alex and DAZ, but DAZ doesn't bring the heat in the gambling arena, and Alex hasn't won a big tourny in a while. Placed high, but hasn't consistently won some majors.
I think we can all agree that the top 5 guys can be picked out of, Shane, Dennis, Busti, Daz, Alex, Efren, Johny. The thing is, there are 3 that every one will take. Shane, Dennis, and Busti. On any given day those three will mix it up in a long race, playing most any game. They'll also be favored to win any tournament they enter.
The long and short is that people just want to doubt the kid for one reason or the other. They never have much ammo except look at this time that Dennis beat him, or Busti beat him, but never point out that Shane has done the same. I would since the Open, when this thread was started, RIGHT NOW Dennis, Busti, and Shane all share the top spot. I've got a feeling it won't be for long. In case you haven't been paying attention, Shane is turning up the heat, the money gap is about to start opening just like last year...
best,
Justin
I don't think Shane or ANYONE for that matter can be consider the best for longer than a month or two it seems. Dennis O. is the only valid argument against Shane in the top spot. At best those two are an even match up. Denny will be a slight nod in some games, Shane will get it in others. The best argument you can make is that Shane shares the top spot with Dennis, and/or Busti. I'd say Alex and DAZ, but DAZ doesn't bring the heat in the gambling arena, and Alex hasn't won a big tourny in a while. Placed high, but hasn't consistently won some majors.
I think we can all agree that the top 5 guys can be picked out of, Shane, Dennis, Busti, Daz, Alex, Efren, Johny. The thing is, there are 3 that every one will take. Shane, Dennis, and Busti. On any given day those three will mix it up in a long race, playing most any game. They'll also be favored to win any tournament they enter.
The long and short is that people just want to doubt the kid for one reason or the other. They never have much ammo except look at this time that Dennis beat him, or Busti beat him, but never point out that Shane has done the same. I would since the Open, when this thread was started, RIGHT NOW Dennis, Busti, and Shane all share the top spot. I've got a feeling it won't be for long. In case you haven't been paying attention, Shane is turning up the heat, the money gap is about to start opening just like last year...
best,
Justin
I'm not sure where you see "haters" anywhere. I think that people are giving their realistic opinion that Shane is a great player, easily the best American player. People have already stepped up to the plate and backed other players (Alex, Dennis) against him.
I'm certainly not a Shane hater and I'd hope nobody ever in their wildest wet dream would think I am. But I also think that Dennis O. is a better player. That's not hate. Shane is off the hook phenomenal. But Dennis would still be my choice.
When people are forced to show why they are of the opinion they hold, it's unfair to call them haters.
Freddie <~~~ huge SVB fan
Because Henny is tough to be around when he acts up?
I'd put my money on Dennis, but there would be no beating up.
Freddie
Not haters, doubters. I've seen the same body of work, but Like I said, I think Dennis and Shane trade punches well. There's not a good way for me to say Dennis is better than Shane or vice-versa. The hot hand will win every time. The best thing that could happen for pool is for these two to start playing each other more often.
With all the shadiness, dishonesty, and game-fixing associated with pool gambling, I'd be reluctant to ever consider "stepping to the plate" with any large sum of money to back anyone. JMHO.
Maniac (a fool and his money are soon parted)
He did say this. It was one of the TAR podcasts. However, he said he "stayed away" from Dennis when he was gambling in the Philippines. So if the match was state side who knows if it would ever go down. Again though would the "best" player ever back down from anyone and anywhere? Or is it the smart player who knows you don't go calling out another world champion caliber player in his own backyard?
He said it on a TAR podcast or two that he will not play Dennis for his own cash. Jay has also stated it.
Shane is awesome but Dennis is a stone cold killer on a pool table and has only been made to look human by Yang who is an absolute beast for the cash.
He got outbroke.
Alex had decent leads on both day 1 and day 2 and Shane broke and ran a 6 pack and a 7 pack to close out both of those days to end up with narrow leads after both days. Alex's successful break percentage compared to SVB's was far worse, his shooting stats post break were awesome and IMO he outshot SVB post break but his weaker break gave SVB too many opportunites and SVB's dominant break kept Alex sitting in his chair for way too many games for him to have a chance.
SVB's break is an extremely huge equalizer for him against people who can outshoot him.
See the Dennis vs Shane 8-ball match on TAR, Dennnis shot 100% accustat on that match, he never missed a shot, he never played safe, he ran ever rack he looked at, and he lost. SVB actually missed a couple times in that match, but despite the fact his shooting percentage was lower then Dennis his break and the packages it produced combined with Dennis having too many dry breaks lead to an SVB victory.
I have seen Shane play 3 cushion, He can play that too
Just to add a little info:
For those stating that Shane had lots of offers at Hard Times that is a joke. He had lots of offers to give up HUGE spots and try and outrun the nuts.
I offered to stake him against Ronnie Alcano, we were supposed to have a set for 10K and that is why I went out to California. When I got there they wouldn't play.
I offered to stake him against Busty and they wouldn't play.
Dennis O. offered to play Shane 10 ball and SVB was more than willing to play but I think the game is too even to stake it. I think Shane breaks better and Dennis runs out better. If they play on a tighter table I believe that favors Dennis.
We had came to an agreement with Dennis to play a set of 10 ball and a set of one pocket after Shane finished playing Alex but Alex wouldn't quit! Shane had him down 10 games of 1 pkt. and 13K down. Alex won back all the money and a little extra by winning 7 games at 2K / Game. I didn't have any part of any of this because I will never bet against either of these players, Shane was taking all of the action himself.
I watched Shane play a lot of 3C while at Hard Times and he is getting better all the time, he certainly isn't a champion at the game yet but is looking like he will get to a point where he will beat most pool players at the game. I don't think he has the time to ever get good enough to beat a real 3C player though.
As far as Hennesey's offer he wanted to play 20 ahead for 10K on the bar table and play it until it was done taking breaks after so many hours. I said that this could take weeks and his response was "so what!". Unfortunately I can't take that much time away from my work and family so that will never happen. I did offer to let him play SVB at the Derby and he didn't want any part of it.
I think as an all around player playing 10 ball, 8 ball & 1 pkt Shane is the best player with Alex, Dennis O., Busty, Efren, Appleton very close behind.
I also think that Shane is still getting better and in a few years will be a ball better than he is now. I also think that Dennis is still getting better also especially at 1 pkt so who know who would win an all around then!
For those stating that Shane had lots of offers at Hard Times that is a joke. He had lots of offers to give up HUGE spots and try and outrun the nuts.
I offered to stake him against Ronnie Alcano, we were supposed to have a set for 10K and that is why I went out to California. When I got there they wouldn't play.
I offered to stake him against Busty and they wouldn't play.
Dennis O. offered to play Shane 10 ball and SVB was more than willing to play but I think the game is too even to stake it. I think Shane breaks better and Dennis runs out better. If they play on a tighter table I believe that favors Dennis.
We had came to an agreement with Dennis to play a set of 10 ball and a set of one pocket after Shane finished playing Alex but Alex wouldn't quit! Shane had him down 10 games of 1 pkt. and 13K down. Alex won back all the money and a little extra by winning 7 games at 2K / Game. I didn't have any part of any of this because I will never bet against either of these players, Shane was taking all of the action himself.
I watched Shane play a lot of 3C while at Hard Times and he is getting better all the time, he certainly isn't a champion at the game yet but is looking like he will get to a point where he will beat most pool players at the game. I don't think he has the time to ever get good enough to beat a real 3C player though.
As far as Hennesey's offer he wanted to play 20 ahead for 10K on the bar table and play it until it was done taking breaks after so many hours. I said that this could take weeks and his response was "so what!". Unfortunately I can't take that much time away from my work and family so that will never happen. I did offer to let him play SVB at the Derby and he didn't want any part of it.
I think as an all around player playing 10 ball, 8 ball & 1 pkt Shane is the best player with Alex, Dennis O., Busty, Efren, Appleton very close behind.
I also think that Shane is still getting better and in a few years will be a ball better than he is now. I also think that Dennis is still getting better also especially at 1 pkt so who know who would win an all around then!
Not sure why a few people are discounting alex, he played shane two races to 100. Won one of them by 6, lost another by 16, but in any case alex is in the exact same league (i.e. world class). If invited for another race to 100 I don't think he'd faint and I think he'd play for more than an appearance fee too.
I do however like Dennis O's chances more than Alex's, generally speaking. Alex seems to have this pattern where he gets down a lot and then has to mount some comeback... like TAR3 or more recently when he got down 10k playing shane in 1p, then fought back to +1 game.
Dennis just plays perfect from the start and never seems to fall into a hole.
I do however like Dennis O's chances more than Alex's, generally speaking. Alex seems to have this pattern where he gets down a lot and then has to mount some comeback... like TAR3 or more recently when he got down 10k playing shane in 1p, then fought back to +1 game.
Dennis just plays perfect from the start and never seems to fall into a hole.
Svb
Shane is still young!!!
Most of the players that everyone is comparing him to are older.
He is undeniably one of the strongest players in the world, but he is still beatable. His strongest advantage is his break. Now where his break gives him the biggest advantage is when the races start getting longer and longer. He is a favorite going into any race to 100 matches just because in the long run his break pulls him ahead.
One pocket he might not be flashy or play 'power one pocket' like Scott Frost or Alex Pagulyon but what he does do is play rock solid the whole time (like Corey Deuel).
Rotation games - Orcullo was the favorite going into the last TAR but look how that ended. In day 1 SVB's break and run percentage was over 60%!!!!!!! That is crazy. If you really look at his stats he was also making 1.9 balls per break while orcullo was barely over 1. That stat alone to be the average over 100 games is impressive - which lead to a final break and run % for SVB over 40 while Orcullo was around 25%.
SVB's game is going to be getting stronger and stronger. He works out 6 days a week and eats healthy. He doesn't drink or smoke and he takes his sport very seriously with how much he practices. He will be around a long time and I wouldn't be surprised if by 2020 the players vote SVB player of the decade (estimating he wins US Open a couple more times, DCC all around a couple more times and at least 1 world 9 ball and 10 ball title).
Shane is still young!!!
Most of the players that everyone is comparing him to are older.
He is undeniably one of the strongest players in the world, but he is still beatable. His strongest advantage is his break. Now where his break gives him the biggest advantage is when the races start getting longer and longer. He is a favorite going into any race to 100 matches just because in the long run his break pulls him ahead.
One pocket he might not be flashy or play 'power one pocket' like Scott Frost or Alex Pagulyon but what he does do is play rock solid the whole time (like Corey Deuel).
Rotation games - Orcullo was the favorite going into the last TAR but look how that ended. In day 1 SVB's break and run percentage was over 60%!!!!!!! That is crazy. If you really look at his stats he was also making 1.9 balls per break while orcullo was barely over 1. That stat alone to be the average over 100 games is impressive - which lead to a final break and run % for SVB over 40 while Orcullo was around 25%.
SVB's game is going to be getting stronger and stronger. He works out 6 days a week and eats healthy. He doesn't drink or smoke and he takes his sport very seriously with how much he practices. He will be around a long time and I wouldn't be surprised if by 2020 the players vote SVB player of the decade (estimating he wins US Open a couple more times, DCC all around a couple more times and at least 1 world 9 ball and 10 ball title).