Here we go again - Another bad seller thread

jmizzo

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This exact scenario played out on me before, and I got the right information

I have a Harris cue for sale on the forums. When I got the cue, I was told that they thought the inlay was Ivory, and there was lots of it. I wanted to make sure what the material was, so I got in touch with the cuemaker. I found out it wasn't Ivory. If I had sold the cue and the person found out it wasn't Ivory, I would refund the cue no questions asked for an extended timeframe. The cue could have been used for a while, but if it wasn't what I said it was, it would be on me. I didn't hide this information, and could have just said the former owner thought it was ivory, but that would be dishonest.

My issue here isn't really that the shaft I bought wouldn't fit. The issue is that the pin was completely different. When it was brought to his attention, and this is where it falls apart, he skirted all responsibility and basically told me to own it. This member has still not tried to contact me, and I have watched him log in multiple times, without ever returning my messages or responding to this thread. My hope was that this would force him to contact me. He didnt. So I think its time to out the scenario.

The sellers AZ name is Sirloin. Was great to work with until an issue came up and he chose to tell me its on me and not contact or follow up with me in anyway in the last couple of days, even though he logged on multiple times per day.

This guy could be a good dude, but in this instance it was handled incredibly poorly and I think because of that he is bad action.


I will be keeping the cue, cause there is no other option on the table. Ill have to order the correct fitting shaft, which is fine. The only reason I gave him the option to get the shaft rethreaded is that it would most likely be cheaper than eating the paypal costs, and paying his own shipping back. I was trying to be amicable and told him that I was operating in good faith as I know he just made a mistake. It was his unwillingness to acknowledge his mistake and try to make it right in anyway that led me down this path.

I can tell you this, if I made that mistake, and I told him that, I would have asked what I could do to make it right, and do it. The seller made the mistake, not the buyer. A shaft being bought for it before I got it is irrelevant to the issue that the pin wasn't what I was told. If I had known it was a 3/8x11 before all of this, I simply would not have purchased it as its not a common thread, and not the cue that I intend to use for the rest of my playing days.
 

ridewiththewind

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Like i said before, i know without a shadow of a doubt that none of youhave researched every cue youve sold. And if you say you have then you are a liar plain and simple.

I must be a liar then...LoL! I have always described my cues sold here as accurately as humanly possible, and at the very least knew the joint pins and types, along with materials used. Where a Letter of Provenance was provided by the maker...it was used as reference for the specs, and forwarded with the cue. Woods used have been described accurately, along with weight and shaft diameters. Ferrule material and current tips have also been included. I also made sure to include any imperfections that may have existed, no matter how minor they may have been. To date, I have NEVER had an issue with a buyer being unhappy...in fact, they have been delighted with their purchases. I have never shipped a cue that I did not have the shafts cleaned and conditioned first, and the butt has been polished to remove any fingerprints or oils from everyday play. It's the little things that make the difference.

Now, I am not in the business of buying and selling cues...but if I can be this diligent, then it should follow that someone doing it as a sideline business should be more diligent...it's their business, afterall.

Now, I am not discounting that mistakes can sometimes be made...it's how you choose to handle those mistakes that speaks to one's character.

The aftermarket shaft issue is different kettle of fish altogether.
 
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Ken_4fun

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The fact that he had a shaft he wanted to use on the cue is irrelevant.

The cue was listed as a cue with a 3/8x10 joint. That was wrong. I am certain that it was an honest mistake, but it was still wrong. The cue was inaccurately described in the listing.

Joe

Joe -

That's exactly my thoughts too.

I think it was an honest mistake. I could have done it too. Ridethewind comments are silly IMO, I have made mistakes in the past, I will make mistakes in the future, and I sure as hell don't check the thread count on every cue I sell, and I have probably sold 100 times as many cues as Ridethewind ever has or ever will.

For all of those who have never made a mistake please stand up.

I am not a fan of paying the difference on shaft. I would offer to refund the money (and pay all shipping because I made a mistake.)

If he keeps the cue, its his baby. I do not pay the difference or replacement shaft.

Ken
 
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jmizzo

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The only reason I offered the shaft fix was I thought it would be cheaper for him to do that than to pay shipping back and the paypal fee on the returned item.

Joe

Joe -

That's exactly my thoughts too.

I think it was an honest mistake. I could have done it too.

I am not a fan of paying the difference on shaft. I would offer to refund the money (and pay all shipping because I made a mistake.)

If he keeps the cue, its his baby. I do not pay the difference or replacement shaft.

Ken
 

Ken_4fun

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The only reason I offered the shaft fix was I thought it would be cheaper for him to do that than to pay shipping back and the paypal fee on the returned item.

Joe

I understand and I am not throwing rocks at you either.

I thought you asked what I would do. That's what I would do.

I have had guys come back to me after I sold them something, and then they want to negotiate. IMO, that is chicken-$hit. That's why I say if you are not happy, send it back and get your money back, no questions.

On this instance where an obvious error was made on my end, and not a judgment call I would have paid for shipping both ways. Normally if you return a cue, you pay shipping back to me.

That's how I handle it.

Ken
 

Cuemaster98

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Looks like the cue in question is a Bob Owen tribute cue. I see that he listed the cue as 3/8-10 but the picture does show that it looked more like a 3/8-11 brass pin. If I was thinking about buying this cue, that would have been my first question. This is a beautiful cue and looked like it was snatched up fairly quickly.
 
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Kid Dynomite

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I understand and I am not throwing rocks at you either.

I thought you asked what I would do. That's what I would do.

I have had guys come back to me after I sold them something, and then they want to negotiate. IMO, that is chicken-$hit. That's why I say if you are not happy, send it back and get your money back, no questions.

On this instance where an obvious error was made on my end, and not a judgment call I would have paid for shipping both ways. Normally if you return a cue, you pay shipping back to me.

That's how I handle it.

Ken

I understand your stance on this issue and agree!!!

Hypothetical Scenario: Buyer has remorse, job loss Or etc. unrelated to the purchase. Then the seller is suppose to take the return. Regardless of the merit or nature of the issue??? To me that is not fair to the seller and HIGHLY unethical!

Hypothetical Scenario: Buyer is actively experimenting and trying different cues from numerous sellers and returning the items for full refund plus shipping to do so! Ethical or Unethical???

These things are HAPPENING here in the wanted for sale section in my opinion and My apologizes to the original poster as this topic may deserve its own thread and poll and in no way is the scenario with his situation.

I just truly believe returning cues should be LESS common then it is and reflect something MAJORLY wrong with the cue. Not the tip is delaminating, I hear a clicking sound or any of the numerous reasons to give for returning a purchase.

I feel this way because I knew people who would leave the tags on clothing items and wear them for weeks and return for a FULL refund/exchange. They would look for items where the tag was already hidden or easy to hide so they could always stay in the latest fashions. This gaming the system goes on in major malls and I see or perceive alot of it here in the cue game.

You buy something and it is yours. Yes, most all sellers on here are nice and would take a cue back and undo a deal. But, buyers need to be truthful with people and not come up with some BS excuse to return the item, JMO

I hold onto the money for 3 days before I transfer it into my JOINT account. Once it hits there the WIFEY could have bought a new refrigerator or something with it and things become a little more cumbersome. But still do able.

Am I alone on this issue with my concern that people are or could be playing games with the return policies???


KD
 

batalarms

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No,you're not alone Kid.I hadn't thought of that angle,and you make a good point.In this thread,I don't think the pin being a 10 threads per inch or an 11 TPI would be a deal breaker.Its not like I wanted a big pin and got a 5/16 pin.Gotta be more to it.I guess the aftermarket shaft purchase came into play,but that shouldn't be a deal breaker either.If I wanted that butt,I would have asked for help from the seller as it was a mistake on his part listing it as a stainless steel 3/8X10 pin.I looked at the original thread,and clearly it was a brass pin,and that would have been a "red flag" for me.IMO,this was a small issue and could/should have been easily settled with better communication by the 2 parties and a small compromise by both.Maybe sharing the cost of plugging and re-tapping the aftermarket shaft.These type threads are not good for either party or this section of the forum in general.I hope you guys can work this out.Good luck.
Marc
 
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Type79

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Black/White/Grey - Morally Right / Morally Wrong

I have only sold one item here on AZ but I am a regular seller over on eBay. Many valid points on both sides of the return issue have been made in this thread as well as others.

But life is much easier if you keep things simple and simple means a refund.

If the buyer doesn't want the item, is unhappy with the item, wants to renegotiate, avoid the drama. Tell the buyer to return the item for a 100% refund plus reimbursement of return shipping. Discussions are over, deal is undone, everybody moves-on.

It is best to transact sales based on the average buyer not on the exception, i.e. Not on the buyer who is the PITA, abuses return privileges, etc. Sellers: It's going to happen in a small % of transactions. Live with it. Get over it.

One fact that is often omitted on these threads concerning dissatisfaction is the amount of dollars involved. In my experience, if something is going to go wrong, more often than not, it will be on a low dollar item rather than a $1,000 sale.

Jay
 

cuesblues

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Am I alone on this issue with my concern that people are or could be playing games with the return policies???

Seems like a lot of trouble to go to , just to try out a cue once and a while.
You still have to pay for it, and send it back, deal with the post office, I can't see it.
I can see people bringing up incorrect or frivolous issues to get a little kickback, but even that one would take some balls.

On this particular deal, the buyer did buy a 3/8-10 Hybrid shaft, maybe in haste, but he didn't know.

Everybody has a preference of the pin they like, and you never hear 3/8-11.
With cues by Kersenbrock or South West, Omen and a few others you don't have a choice, but 3/8-11 is rarely a pin that people prefer.
To me this cue doesn't have the SW look that you typically see in cues that have 3/8-11 pins.
It would be disappointing to find out the hard way that this cue has a South West style pin.
 

rustysregular10

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Looks like the cue in question is a Bob Owen tribute cue. I see that he listed the cue as 3/8-10 but the picture does show that it looked more like a 3/8-11 brass pin. If I was thinking about buying this cue, that would have been my first question. This is a beautiful cue and looked like it was snatched up fairly quickly.

This is the point i was trying to make.
 

jmizzo

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You guys must have great eyes. There are brass 3/8x10, and not all of them are rounded on the top. I cant see 1 extra thread per inch in a picture, hence going by the listing. When I brought it up that it could be that, the seller replied with that he had no reason to believe it is anything other than 3/8x10. I dont know what you are insinuating, but I have been nothing but honest and stand up in all of my dealings on AZ. I have only had one issue, and it wasn't known before the wrap was off at refinish(wrap was slightly thicker than the groove, do you know what I did? I offered the money back and to pay for shipping. The buyer chose to keep it.
 

tybo22

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If the cue was described and sold as a 3/8-10 and it turns out to be 3/8-11 the fault lies with the seller. The cue was not as described correctly. Refund or make it right with the buyer. Im sure it wasn't done on purpose as the pins look similar. Not sure what the debate is about....its up to the seller to make thing right.
 

phade

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A seller shouldn't be 'on the hook' if an aftermarket shaft doesn't fit a specific cue. I just tried an OB 5/16-14 on a newer Meucci 5/16-14 butt and it would not screw on. That said, a seller should know what it is they are selling. If not, then that should be stated, "sorry, I am not sure what pin it is but the maker should be able to confirm." Seller should offer a defined return policy for in the event the buyer thinks the item is not as described or is unhappy. If the seller is offering an item as-is, with no returns, then that's fine.....but it needs to be stated.

Folks.....it really is that easy.

Meucci is 5/16-18 pin
 

ridewiththewind

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Joe -

That's exactly my thoughts too.

I think it was an honest mistake. I could have done it too. Ridethewind comments are silly IMO, I have made mistakes in the past, I will make mistakes in the future, and I sure as hell don't check the thread count on every cue I sell, and I have probably sold 100 times as many cues as Ridethewind ever has or ever will.

For all of those who have never made a mistake please stand up.

I am not a fan of paying the difference on shaft. I would offer to refund the money (and pay all shipping because I made a mistake.)

If he keeps the cue, its his baby. I do not pay the difference or replacement shaft.

Ken

Do me a favor...and keep my name out of your mouth...you are quickly attaining stalker status with me, and I will not put up with it. You could have made the same point without bringing me into it...but instead you choose to take pot shots at me every chance you get in a thread.
 
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