how are ya'll doing in league ?

cubswin

Just call me Joe...
Silver Member
Playing a session of Napa singles, laggers choice. Currently sitting in 3rd because of a horrible start. Hoping to end up in 2nd, can't really catch first without a mircale (last game is tomorrow).
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We have countless examples of players that are new to APA but experienced shooters, starting at a SL3 (or SL4, like it used to be in the past) and ending up as SL7's before the end of the session. My current team captain is one of them.

The player in question could have been started as SL5, some LO's start known players at a higher level than regular players. (Ours does not, just has it apply equally to every new player and letting the computer sort it out, no subjectiveness or player-watching required). Then played to his real skill level.

Or it could be any of several other possible scenarios.

Yes, but that is because they were not started at their known skill level, not that they were actually lower level and improved to max out. Of course an A player that they put in as a C player will quickly go up, should go up in like a week soon as someone realizes how they play. Or better yet, manually put them in at their known skill level as it should be proper to do so you are not giving them an unfair advantage while they are under-raked. Sure it's the same for all players, but it's not fair. A 3 that starts as a 3 and a 7 that starts as a 3 are not on equal footing, and that is what the whole point of handicaps is. Anyone that just states "that is what the system did" would be the person that held the door open for the guy wearing a mask with a bloody axe that said "well, I did not know he was going to chop up those girls when I let him in, it's not my fault everyone is dead, I was just being nice and held the door open".

The APA for some reason decided to start my son as a 3 in 9 ball, and he was a nearly 600 Fargo player that everyone knew was a 600 Fargo player that should have been an 8 or a 9. Most leagues remind me of this movie scene, at the start they seem all impressive, then at the end...

 
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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. I played one session of APA 8 ball and before the end of the session was a 7.

Yea, if you were already a 7 when you started that would happen, not if you were actually at the skill level of a lower player.
Handicap numbers mean absolutely nothing, the actual skill is what counts. You may want to identify as a 4, but if you have the skill of a 7, you are a 7, or whatever level you were. It's like saying "well I went from 30th in the state in track and field to 1st, soon as I became a woman" LOL. The skill did not change, only how it's ranked was. I don't trust any handicap level unless it's the max you can be, then I won't have any issues with playing them at that level.

What I mean is that a player who is an actual 5/5 would not jump up 2 and 4 skill levels in one session, or even two. Once someone hits that 5 level, advancement is quite a bit tougher, and you often have to unlearn some bad habits to break through to the highest two levels.
 
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Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
Still losing but playing well with just one mistake being the deciding factor last two matches
Played a 7 who's well established 630.
Was making balls in my way to breaking hill hill and got a crazy scratch and ended up losing 5-2
Never had so much fun being a loser
 

RobMan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Haven’t played organized league in over a decade. Played APA (7/8) and some TAP for a few years from 2009-2012. Really play mostly 14.1 and a little 1P.

Joined an 8B APA team this year. Fortunate to be 3-0 after going hill-hill against a 7 and a 6. Beat a five 5-1. We are lucky enough to play on 9ft Diamonds. Having fun - just enjoying the social aspect.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
Has anyone other than me noticed that lorider hasn't posted a comment since July 25th of last year?

I hope he is okay!
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Yes, but that is because they were not started at their known skill level, not that they were actually lower level and improved to max out. Of course an A player that they put in as a C player will quickly go up, should go up in like a week soon as someone realizes how they play. Or better yet, manually put them in at their known skill level as it should be proper to do so you are not giving them an unfair advantage while they are under-raked. Sure it's the same for all players, but it's not fair. A 3 that starts as a 3 and a 7 that starts as a 3 are not on equal footing, and that is what the whole point of handicaps is. Anyone that just states "that is what the system did" would be the person that held the door open for the guy wearing a mask with a bloody axe that said "well, I did not know he was going to chop up those girls when I let him in, it's not my fault everyone is dead, I was just being nice and held the door open".

The APA for some reason decided to start my son as a 3 in 9 ball, and he was a nearly 600 Fargo player that everyone knew was a 600 Fargo player that should have been an 8 or a 9. Most leagues remind me of this movie scene, at the start they seem all impressive, then at the end...

While I understand your point, completely, I also understand why its done the way it is here. Our LO has a pretty wide geographical coverage area, hundreds of miles from one end to the other. Currently has 26 different divisions. There is no practical way for him to be able to be in most of those rooms, most of the time. So how can any new person be fairly judged as to what skill level they should start as?

Yes, you could conceivably set up some sort of committee of advanced players across the state, but even that becomes subjective, and not convenient in any sort of fashion. If someone is to be assessed a beginning skill level, it needs to be consistently assigned. At the very least, having them all start at the same level (SL3 currently) is consistent. They obviously won't be at that level for long. We've become accustomed to it, and chuckle when it happens, which isn't very often. My current team captain is an SL7, and was playing on a different team when he started APA. I got to play him when he was at SL5, and was looking forward to it, wanting to keep him from a shutout. I did :) He did get to SL7 before the end of the session.

Making the best of a difficult situation, one that doesn't happen often. I like having them in our league, and I think most players here agree, we're a better stronger league, having better stronger players in it. If this is what we have to do, its fine.
 

Rusty in Montana

Well-known member
Yesterday we had a bye so we played a make up game I gave away my first two games then won my last two as a team when I left we were ahead of them .

I can't wait until the Dr's quit taking off extra body parts so I can quit hurting while I'm waiting on them ha ha
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While I understand your point, completely, I also understand why its done the way it is here. Our LO has a pretty wide geographical coverage area, hundreds of miles from one end to the other. Currently has 26 different divisions. There is no practical way for him to be able to be in most of those rooms, most of the time. So how can any new person be fairly judged as to what skill level they should start as?

Players from the immediate are the new player is in would know how good the player is, as is the team they are joining. Usually, it's like a shark feeding frenzy when a known good player starts APA since the teams know they will be low ranked and have easy wins for a while. Often the goal is to keep that player as low ranked as possible through sandbagging well into the future due to starting out low. I personally know of 3 such players just in my area of like a 20 mile radius. In a normal local tournament, I play them pretty even (because the people running them know how they play), in league I need to spot them several games. If you start a good player at their actual skill level, none of that happens.

Also locking players to a skill level is a good idea, so no one can ever be more than one rank bellow the max they reached, unless there is some actual medical issue that prevents them from playing properly. My TAP league has a whole team of players that were all 1-3 ranks lower than they were a session ago. 3 levels of skill in a single session, that is just silly, a 6 to a 3, just because they lost a bit.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Players from the immediate are the new player is in would know how good the player is, as is the team they are joining. Usually, it's like a shark feeding frenzy when a known good player starts APA since the teams know they will be low ranked and have easy wins for a while. Often the goal is to keep that player as low ranked as possible through sandbagging well into the future due to starting out low. I personally know of 3 such players just in my area of like a 20 mile radius. In a normal local tournament, I play them pretty even (because the people running them know how they play), in league I need to spot them several games. If you start a good player at their actual skill level, none of that happens.

Also locking players to a skill level is a good idea, so no one can ever be more than one rank bellow the max they reached, unless there is some actual medical issue that prevents them from playing properly. My TAP league has a whole team of players that were all 1-3 ranks lower than they were a session ago. 3 levels of skill in a single session, that is just silly, a 6 to a 3, just because they lost a bit.
All of that may very well be true. That still doesn't provide a better answer in terms of practicality. Sure, I knew my guy was gonna be an SL7 once the dust settled. But who am I? One guy. The next guy might have thought SL6. And the local players in other divisions might very well have assigned a different Skill Level. The only way for it to equitable for everyone in the territory is for the LO to be the one arbiter of what Skill Level should be. OR just let the system sort it out. At the very least it is consistent for everyone.

I understand TAP can change pretty frequently, or so the folks that play TAP here locally tell me. I don't have the time to play in that league in addition to the two nights that I play APA. When TAP was getting started here locally, a lot of "the better players" (heh) instisted that they were switching to TAP cuz the handicapping was better. Funny, many of them came back over time, and I hear plenty of stories of people who I know how well they play, having a rediculously low Skill Level in TAP. Its just funny, to me. Its not a knock on that league, a good friend of mine runs it, used to play on one of my teams. My chuckle is that any large system like these aren't foolproof, and funnier to see people crap on APA in favor of that system, when its flawed, as well.
 
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Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
Helped the last place team out the first place team down to third last night with one game to go on the season lol. My second
5-0 in 3 weeks with a break and run to put me back in the top 3 break n runners of the league , something I can feel good about atleast ending the season on a good streak
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
I'm torn between being discouraged or encouraged... I've been playing my best pool over the last few weeks, and have been consistently losing. I've been playing players players my skill level and above, and have pretty much gone hill-hill with all of them, so there's a little bit of something to hold onto.

I've been SL5 for over 10 years now. The first couple years after I made SL5, I was convinced and determined to make SL6. I felt I could do it. Then life happened, and my ability to get extra table time in evaporated. Flast forward to today, and while I still don't gave the time to do the extra work, I feel I'm better applying the time I have.

I just need to frigging learn how to close out games...sigh.
 

Korsakoff

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm torn between being discouraged or encouraged... I've been playing my best pool over the last few weeks, and have been consistently losing. I've been playing players players my skill level and above, and have pretty much gone hill-hill with all of them, so there's a little bit of something to hold onto.

I've been SL5 for over 10 years now. The first couple years after I made SL5, I was convinced and determined to make SL6. I felt I could do it. Then life happened, and my ability to get extra table time in evaporated. Flast forward to today, and while I still don't gave the time to do the extra work, I feel I'm better applying the time I have.

I just need to frigging learn how to close out games...sigh.
It's been a long time since I played league. But, our team typically won wherever we were playing.

When you look back at a few weeks and observe, "I just need to frigging learn how to close out games", it's typically not that.

You need to review how you played the layout. The rule of a player on a "good" league team, is, "if you can't see the out, don't make a ball". Really. It's just that.

You can shoot. You can play safe. It's all about when, how and in what situation. Can you see the out? Can you shoot the out? If no to either, then tie up the other person (safe).

That's your next level of play. When you get good at that, you'll get rated higher.

But, I played BCA and not APA.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
It's been a long time since I played league. But, our team typically won wherever we were playing.

When you look back at a few weeks and observe, "I just need to frigging learn how to close out games", it's typically not that.

You need to review how you played the layout. The rule of a player on a "good" league team, is, "if you can't see the out, don't make a ball". Really. It's just that.

You can shoot. You can play safe. It's all about when, how and in what situation. Can you see the out? Can you shoot the out? If no to either, then tie up the other person (safe).

That's your next level of play. When you get good at that, you'll get rated higher.

But, I played BCA and not APA.
Everything you state here is true and accurate. The hell of it is the reason I've been so encouraged, despite the results, is that I've been "seeing the out" and usually getting there...and simply not getting the last ball or two. Despite having a decent to good shot at it.

Finishing the deal, that's when I'll get to the next level. Seriously. The big difference recently is running good patterns, or at least better than I had been. Both in 8 ball and in 9 ball, two very different disciplines. It's just discouraging to do a good job navigating a table, digging out of trouble, setting myself up, and then not closing the deal.

I'm happy with the progress, seriously. If not measurable, it's at least tangible. I can see the difference in the "getting there". Close the deal, dude...
 

dquarasr

Registered
Won 12-8 and 2-0 last night APA Double Jeopardy last matches of Spring session. Played very average with flashes of brilliance and befuddling unforced errors.

Finished 8-ball SL6 at 61% win rate but 46% points available, first time ever under 50% in 3+ lifetime years playing one division per session.

Finished 9-ball SL5 at 57% win rate and curiously same exact 57% points available.

Disappointed I fell under 50% in any number but overall happy I’m still improving.

Gonna try BCA straight pool league starting soon, if I can get in, so I should be developing a Fargo.
 

Rusty in Montana

Well-known member
A month plus after gallbladder surgery I'm back to playing in both pool leagues still dealing with some discomfort but I'm doing better even if my game to a turn to the worse momentarily .

The worse case scenario is I split the 4 games , those I loose it's from me rattling the pocket with the 8 ball or I scratched (twice this season is all )
Now like some other folks if I can keep my arthritis to a dull roar with these spring snow storms and weather shifts I hope to finish the season on a high note !
 
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