how do i drill a straight hole?

[Do you massage, bump or lever your pin a touch after applying the epoxy when you indicate? [/U][/I][/B] I do and I have 4 other cuemaker friends who live in my area who all do the same as a routine.]

If you have to massage, bump or lever your pin ( In other words move it around in an oversize hole to make it run straight) then your hole is not straight and it is too big. If the hole is done correctly in the first place you don't need to move anything.
 
I do not bump or massage the pin. In fact, I don't even install the pin while in the lathe anymore. I make the hole then sit down at my bench to glue the pin in. It fits very smooth, too snug for me to twist it in with my fingers, so I use a driver & set it in with 1.25" sticking out. I don't know if there's a problem until I chuck the cue up again to be faced, which is the last step before finish. They are never off, but even if they were off by a thou or two, it would come out in the wash as I use sanding arbors. Once the cue is finished, the pin is always dead nuts center.

I know some builders who manipulate the pin until it's dead on. Works fine for them. They never seem to have any problems, so I assume it's not a bad technique. I don't fault anything that works. Things we do now & adhesives we use now are infinitely superior to 50 years ago, and those old cues are still together & playing well.
 
I do not bump or massage the pin. In fact, I don't even install the pin while in the lathe anymore. I make the hole then sit down at my bench to glue the pin in. It fits very smooth, too snug for me to twist it in with my fingers, so I use a driver & set it in with 1.25" sticking out. I don't know if there's a problem until I chuck the cue up again to be faced, which is the last step before finish. They are never off, but even if they were off by a thou or two, it would come out in the wash as I use sanding arbors. Once the cue is finished, the pin is always dead nuts center.

I know some builders who manipulate the pin until it's dead on. Works fine for them. They never seem to have any problems, so I assume it's not a bad technique. I don't fault anything that works. Things we do now & adhesives we use now are infinitely superior to 50 years ago, and those old cues are still together & playing well.

Earlier today you said: "[Do you massage, bump or lever your pin a touch after applying the epoxy when you indicate? [/u][/i][/b] I do and I have 4 other cuemaker friends who live in my area who all do the same as a routine.]"

Maybe I am so old that I cannot read what you write. I'll have to get some new, thicker and better glasses.
 
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Earlier today you said: "[Do you massage, bump or lever your pin a touch after applying the epoxy when you indicate? [/u][/i][/b] I do and I have 4 other cuemaker friends who live in my area who all do the same as a routine.]"

Maybe I am so old that I cannot read what you write. I'll have to get some new, thicker and better glasses.

Nice try. I didn't say that. Rick said that. I don't think glasses can fix the problem you apparently have. And it's not age, either. You're gonna have to work harder than this if you wanna "show me up" or whatever it is you are trying to do. Kinda childish & spiteful, isn't it? You said something absolutely retarded & misleading & I called you on it, in a respectful agree to disagree manner. Now you're reverting to this kind of behavior? Really? Maybe i'm too old & need thick glasses because what I see is you trying to be a smartass & failing at that, too. Best thing you can do is shut up & color before you really make yourself look foolish. This passive aggressive crap won't pass with me and you certainly aren't making yourself look very good doing it in a public forum.

I disagreed with your post & gave reasoning why. I never said anything bad about you or your methods. I wasn't rude or even confrontational about it. Your post essentially claims that my method of building cues can't be & shouldn't be done, and now you are acting childish because I said you were wrong. You haven't even considered the idea that you are wrong. You're just pissed because I said you were wrong. Big deal. I'm wrong a lot & have eaten plenty of crow. I'm eager to learn, as well as open to sharing my experiences. So what if it conflicts with what you share? We disagree. Doesn't mean i'm out to get you. Just means I do things & see things differently on that specific subject. So why are you trying so hard to make me look like an dumbass, even quoting somebody else as if it were me? Even if I were a dumbass, it won't make your post any more right, or reverse what has already been said. You said something wrong & it was corrected. Deal with it like an adult.
 
I let everyone decide who this applies to.

Hint: Whoever it is will probably pitch a ***** about THIS.

View attachment 192594


Bill,
Besides being an aspiring cuemaker I am also a foster parent for 3 kids (also have 2 kids of my own), one of the kids I am a foster parent has some retardation syndromes...I do not find that picture very amusing... You might want to reconsider that... Just a thought...
 
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Nice try. I didn't say that. Rick said that. I don't think glasses can fix the problem you apparently have. And it's not age, either. You're gonna have to work harder than this if you wanna "show me up" or whatever it is you are trying to do. Kinda childish & spiteful, isn't it? You said something absolutely retarded & misleading & I called you on it, in a respectful agree to disagree manner. Now you're reverting to this kind of behavior? Really? Maybe i'm too old & need thick glasses because what I see is you trying to be a smartass & failing at that, too. Best thing you can do is shut up & color before you really make yourself look foolish. This passive aggressive crap won't pass with me and you certainly aren't making yourself look very good doing it in a public forum.

I disagreed with your post & gave reasoning why. I never said anything bad about you or your methods. I wasn't rude or even confrontational about it. Your post essentially claims that my method of building cues can't be & shouldn't be done, and now you are acting childish because I said you were wrong. You haven't even considered the idea that you are wrong. You're just pissed because I said you were wrong. Big deal. I'm wrong a lot & have eaten plenty of crow. I'm eager to learn, as well as open to sharing my experiences. So what if it conflicts with what you share? We disagree. Doesn't mean i'm out to get you. Just means I do things & see things differently on that specific subject. So why are you trying so hard to make me look like an dumbass, even quoting somebody else as if it were me? Even if I were a dumbass, it won't make your post any more right, or reverse what has already been said. You said something wrong & it was corrected. Deal with it like an adult.

Hi,

I did ask that question. Apparently trying to reach as close to zero as possible is not as necessary and I am being paranoid. Like Eric I also use mandrels but only to make sure my finish coatings do not put off my concentricity after spraying.

We all get there is different ways but we get there just the same. Some guys live thread and thats good for them. I use a tap and make my centering bore slightly over size so I can persuade the pin a nudge to run true to my tolerance which is less than 1/2 a thou. I always do better than that but as Eric points out does it matter?

I screwed up on a pin and it was off .002 after curing and I thought I would have to drill it out, new insert and do it over. Guess what, the cue rolled perfect on the table and I shipped it. This experience validates to me what Eric said rings true. The way I see it, hese are cue stick joint pins not helicopter Jesus pins.

Lets all get along and be happy and remember sometimes what we write down and represent in our minds comes out different to people who read or we read it fast and respond. ( "I swear to god, I have never done that here."):rotflmao1:

Arnot and I have had a pissing match but I still have the utmost respect for him and his years of cue making and I apologized. It is usually just a misunderstanding.

I was was a commercial hard hat diver for 30 years and if your think Cue Makers have egos, you have no idea what goes on in that industry. Everyone thinks they are a tough guy soldier of fortune or something.

What the main point here is that by exchanging these ideas and talking out the methods we are rethinking the process with our peers. A new person who is putting in a pin and having trouble gains insight from just observing. How good is that.

Like Eric said, "not telling anyone what to do" makes the point of his arguments as in this is what I do". I like that.

Rick
 
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I let everyone decide who this applies to.

Hint: Whoever it is will probably pitch a ***** about THIS.

And posts like this make you somehow better? Put you at a higher level? What exactly is your purpose? To point out that you are somehow superior to those folks who you perceive to be arguing? Your attempt at funny sarcasm falls a bit short. If you have something to say then man up & say it instead of offering up holier than thou innuendos, then trying to skate out of it with passive statements like, "hint: whoever it is.....". At least Arnie has the nuts to directly address somebody he wants to confront. You, not so much.

Let me ask you this, seriously. How much have you learned through the years from Arnie & my posts & participation in this forum? What did it cost you? You think possibly he & I can have a discussion without your poor attempt at humor? Why are you even posting? If you have something to add about accurately creating a hole then by all means share your wisdom. Otherwise, shut up when the adults are speaking.
 
What the main point here is that by exchanging these ideas and talking out the methods we are rethinking the process with our peers. A new person who is putting in a pin and having trouble gains insight from just observing. How good is that.

That point gets missed a lot. Arnie & I argue. He's a cantakerous old fart who's quit to fire & i'm always quick to respond. Doesn't mean we don't get along or respect one another. Through our bickering there has been a lot of technical ideas & differing points of views given. Just participating in this thread alone I got an idea for a jig that should make joint pin installs even easier than it is already. I'm assuming i'm not the only one who's learned something.
 
Nice try. I didn't say that. Rick said that. I don't think glasses can fix the problem you apparently have. And it's not age, either. You're gonna have to work harder than this if you wanna "show me up" or whatever it is you are trying to do. Kinda childish & spiteful, isn't it? You said something absolutely retarded & misleading & I called you on it, in a respectful agree to disagree manner. Now you're reverting to this kind of behavior? Really? Maybe i'm too old & need thick glasses because what I see is you trying to be a smartass & failing at that, too. Best thing you can do is shut up & color before you really make yourself look foolish. This passive aggressive crap won't pass with me and you certainly aren't making yourself look very good doing it in a public forum.

I disagreed with your post & gave reasoning why. I never said anything bad about you or your methods. I wasn't rude or even confrontational about it. Your post essentially claims that my method of building cues can't be & shouldn't be done, and now you are acting childish because I said you were wrong. You haven't even considered the idea that you are wrong. You're just pissed because I said you were wrong. Big deal. I'm wrong a lot & have eaten plenty of crow. I'm eager to learn, as well as open to sharing my experiences. So what if it conflicts with what you share? We disagree. Doesn't mean i'm out to get you. Just means I do things & see things differently on that specific subject. So why are you trying so hard to make me look like an dumbass, even quoting somebody else as if it were me? Even if I were a dumbass, it won't make your post any more right, or reverse what has already been said. You said something wrong & it was corrected. Deal with it like an adult.

Eric you are correct. You did not say that stuff about bumping a pin etc.
I do need to take the time to properly read a post before I incorrectly
reply to it. My appplogizes.:embarrassed2::embarrassed2:
 
Eric you are correct. You did not say that stuff about bumping a pin etc.
I do need to take the time to properly read a post before I incorrectly
reply to it. My appplogizes.:embarrassed2::embarrassed2:

No problem. I got somebody else to "argue" with & pick on now :groucho::nanner:
 
If you thought my post was about you.........

And posts like this make you somehow better? Put you at a higher level? What exactly is your purpose? To point out that you are somehow superior to those folks who you perceive to be arguing? Your attempt at funny sarcasm falls a bit short. If you have something to say then man up & say it instead of offering up holier than thou innuendos, then trying to skate out of it with passive statements like, "hint: whoever it is.....". At least Arnie has the nuts to directly address somebody he wants to confront. You, not so much.

Let me ask you this, seriously. How much have you learned through the years from Arnie & my posts & participation in this forum? What did it cost you? You think possibly he & I can have a discussion without your poor attempt at humor? Why are you even posting? If you have something to add about accurately creating a hole then by all means share your wisdom. Otherwise, shut up when the adults are speaking.

......you proved my point!

To answer one of your questions.

I've learned a lot from this forum, but absolutely nothing from the posts where you rant because someone pissed you off.
 
Hi,

Arnot has been around the bock more than a few times and he has refined his techniques and tested them over time and has an understanding that only comes with time. I hope that when I grow up as a cue maker I can match up.

I don't think so, I am already 57 years old working on my 3rd career. Arnot has way over 20 years in the biz. That would put me about 80 years old getting close to the bone yard.

I don't know when AZ Billiards started as I only found it four years ago but I don't think I would have invested 50 grand into machinery without the AZ experience curve.

The old timers had to learn by trial and error to hone their skills and also fax them on "slimy fax paper". :yeah: I have been very lucky to be able to pick the brains of guys like Arnot, Eric and others.

I know your not an old fart Eric, just a young genius who figured it all out and built a great brand with Sugartree.

The main question to ask is: "are you having fun". When you love what you do, you never have to work a day in your life.

My late dad always said, if you throw enough crap at the wall some of it has to stick. He is right.

Rick
 
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......you proved my point!

To answer one of your questions.

I've learned a lot from this forum, but absolutely nothing from the posts where you rant because someone pissed you off.

There were only two people arguing in this thread. I proved no point for you. You were fishing for a response while at the same time hoping to not get one. You are hardly a psychology intellect so quit with the dramatics.

How can you assume i'm pissed off? Why would you even think that? Did I bow up with veins popping out of my head, cursing uncontrollably? No, but how would you know? You can only read what I write and relate my words to your own personality because you know absolutely nothing about mine. Much can be learned about people by how they interpret written words. The way you interpret others' words is an exact mirror of how you personally would use those words. Psychology 101. Ranting? If bickering with Arnie is your interpretation of "ranting" then you obviously haven't been around long or personally know neither Arnie or myself, or how we relate & communicate to one another. But here you are assuming you know what's going on. Does it surprise you that we are comfortable talking candidly to one another without hesitation and don't get pissed about it?

You answered one of my questions, partially, and half heartedly. More important were the other questions that you never answered. Detach your own personality from written communications with people you don't know, and you might just find yourself learning a whole lot more & getting your feelings hurt a whole lot less.
 
Hell I was just wondering how to make a perfect hole, lol. I would still be cussing and throwing stuff if I hadn't asked you cuemakers for help, and I am truly appreciative. I was nervous to ask for help at first, but after the "mostly" positive feedback I've gotten, I really feel like I've learned quite a bit, and I'm looking forward to learning much much more.

Joe
 
I give up.

There were only two people arguing in this thread. I proved no point for you. You were fishing for a response while at the same time hoping to not get one. You are hardly a psychology intellect so quit with the dramatics.

How can you assume i'm pissed off? Why would you even think that? Did I bow up with veins popping out of my head, cursing uncontrollably? No, but how would you know? You can only read what I write and relate my words to your own personality because you know absolutely nothing about mine. Much can be learned about people by how they interpret written words. The way you interpret others' words is an exact mirror of how you personally would use those words. Psychology 101. Ranting? If bickering with Arnie is your interpretation of "ranting" then you obviously haven't been around long or personally know neither Arnie or myself, or how we relate & communicate to one another. But here you are assuming you know what's going on. Does it surprise you that we are comfortable talking candidly to one another without hesitation and don't get pissed about it?

You answered one of my questions, partially, and half heartedly. More important were the other questions that you never answered. Detach your own personality from written communications with people you don't know, and you might just find yourself learning a whole lot more & getting your feelings hurt a whole lot less.

I've obviously been outmatched by a superior intellect :bow-down: Since I know how important it is for you to have the last word, I'll let you post a response and I'll excuse myself from this pointless exchange:wave2:
 
I've obviously been outmatched by a superior intellect :bow-down: Since I know how important it is for you to have the last word, I'll let you post a response and I'll excuse myself from this pointless exchange:wave2:

You made my point :speechless:
 
Hell I was just wondering how to make a perfect hole, lol. I would still be cussing and throwing stuff

Joe

Like I said, drills are for roughing in a hole and then bore it to your perfect size.
Things get done better and faster when you cuss and throw things......at least in my mind. :cool:
 
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