How Do the Pros Aim

johnqbs said:
Thanks for your advice I appreciate it. A very good point. I do notice the changes english makes on cue ball and object ball and try to see what part
of pocket ball falls in at. I practice on my jon bilt table pockets are 4 3/8
point to point 4. at center of throat shelf is 1 3/4.
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Surf this site...effects of english and throw...mucho good stuff:

The intended angle is a straight line whereas the throw angle will have a slight curve to it until the OB starts to roll straight on it's new angle.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2006/aug06.pdf
 
JoeyA said:
No, you missed it, thank goodness. You'd have to go to the ice house to keep your head from swelling. :p:D:p
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That's OK. I can afford to miss one today -- kinda like pushing on a hand at blackjack when you're on a hot streak in Vegas -- no biggie.

I've been chuckling about what I quoted and what happened in this thread all afternoon -- even told my wife over dinner. Thanks for the laugh.

Really. I mean that ;-)

Lou Figueroa
I know how much
you like
those emoticons
 
lfigueroa said:
Nothing like the old "hit and run."

If you have something to defend, take a stand. I used to teach on stuff like this and I always told my guys: Make your best case or someone else will do it for you.

Like Joey... or Neil.

Lou Figueroa
that lesson
was free :-)
Click to expand...

Lou. you likely remember the last time I took a stand. You had made a post which I read and immedidately responded to. While I was composing, you edited your original post. I took a firm stand in my response and immediately the entire thread was gone, HMMMMM......So, I decided that would be it for me for awhile. Anyway, I am quite busy with instruction and I actually do not have a lot time nor mental energy to put into offense or defense on AZ. Let's just say that I am in semi-dormancy for a spell.
Plus, I am wanting to compete again and that takes a lot of time as well.
Later Lou,
Stan
 
stan shuffett said:
I would love to share and share a lot but when words like rubbish are used to describe what I teach then I see no point. I miss posting on AZ but I do not care for the negativity that quickly comes my way. I make one post in relation to a pro player's experience and I get.....well, I think it's clear to most.

Stan
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Its a crying shame that a man of this knowledge level and passion for the game cannot feel welcomed here and enjoy posting. Why people who disagree with CTE can't stay out of his threads I'll never know. Also, why he can't just post about anything and not have others subject him to negativity I'll never know. Either way, I am strongly certain that it is more our loss than his.
 
JBKY said:
Here's my opinion on It.Lots and lots of hours.However, It's not just banging and beating balls around.It takes alot of hard,good focused practice and someone real good to learn from will cut the time In half or more..I think the aiming part Is probably the easy part to learn.Example,there Is a video somewhere that I've seen that has like a 3 year old baby on a pool table ( 2 or 3 yeras old) and he knows where and which side of the ball the cueball needs to hit,to make the ball go Into a hole that's on the pool table.Seems to me that to many people worry to much about aiming.It's not rocket science.It's knocking a ball In a hole with a stick and a ball.There is no secret about how to aim,none.
John B.
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If 500 people hit the cueball with center ball at the exact same speed, and cut a ball into a corner pocket from 3 feet away.
They would all pretty much aim at the same place to make the ball as long as they did not line up funny and then shift their backhand fronthand or body.
The change comes when you add spin.
Lets say you want to hit the same ball with 2 tips of inside draw, you still hit it in the same place?
I realized once I tried a z2 shaft after using a regular McDermott that a lot of problems people have are cue related or stroke mechanics related. {Mine especially}
Can you make the shot hitting in the same place with centerball and 2 tips inside draw ? Or do you adjust? If you adjust , is it feel , or do you have a formula?
Any other experts feel free to give your answers.
Grady has said before that he has to change his aim point, in other words , he aims the object ball an inch or more from the pocket when he uses extreme English.
I assume it is because of the effect of throw?
 
Mikjary said:
Stan mentioned to me, in person, many pros line up similar to the CTE alignment visually. He mentions it in the video. He asks a pro player what they are looking at and if they can see the CTE aiming points and they did.

JB never said he uses CTE. He said he uses similar aiming points as I'm sure many other pros do. And eventually it all turns into subconscious aiming anyway.

Best,
Mike
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Mike:

You hit on one of my absolute favorite topics (you might remember my article in the 14.1 forum about leveraging the subconscious).

Whatever method is used to aim, the end-point is this (what I bolded in your post above). What I think is key, is this: "is 'it' conducive to embedding into the subconscious?" If there's too many steps, it's not (read: paralysis through analysis). The idea is to see it, get down on it, shoot it. Not, "'x' number of steps...arrive at it, and then shoot it." The conscious mind can only maintain focus for so long, whereas the subconscious can pretty much function the whole time you're awake. IMHO (and IMHE), at least.

Good post,
-Sean
 
book collector...I'm just trying to clarify something you said. You say the words "hit in the same place", but don't you really mean "aim at the same place"? Of course the 'hit' will be in the same place. That's because you only have the width of the pocket as a small margin of error. However, you must compensate your 'aim' to take into account squirt and deflection...which is what happens when you add sidespin to the CB. So, in effect, when you play with english, you "aim" at a slightly different place on the OB, to be able to "hit" the correct place on the OB, corresponding to the right line to the pocket.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

book collector said:
If 500 people hit the cueball with center ball at the exact same speed, and cut a ball into a corner pocket from 3 feet away.
They would all pretty much aim at the same place to make the ball as long as they did not line up funny and then shift their backhand fronthand or body.
The change comes when you add spin.
Lets say you want to hit the same ball with 2 tips of inside draw, you still hit it in the same place?
I realized once I tried a z2 shaft after using a regular McDermott that a lot of problems people have are cue related or stroke mechanics related. {Mine especially}
Can you make the shot hitting in the same place with centerball and 2 tips inside draw ? Or do you adjust? If you adjust , is it feel , or do you have a formula?
Any other experts feel free to give your answers.
Grady has said before that he has to change his aim point, in other words , he aims the object ball an inch or more from the pocket when he uses extreme English.
I assume it is because of the effect of throw?
Click to expand...
 
JBKY said:
Hey Sean,I want to say that I liked the way you used the word (method) Instead of that stinkin word (system) I think the word people should be using Is,ready for this...Method well....... and or technique.You seem like a real good dude also.John B.
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Hi John!

Thanks for the kind words. The feeling's mutual -- I'm sure you already know that.

Yes, I've always believed that -- a "system" means, "step 1, step 2, step 3... etc." This involves keeping the conscious mind "in play" to go through the steps in sequence, even if those steps are memorized. In my humble experience (IMHE), this is not what pool or any "execution-based" sport is about. (And yes, I believe pool is an execution-based sport -- there is a significant physical aspect of pool, which is the delivery of the cue to the cue ball to pocket the object ball.)

A "method" means "look for this, then do that." The "look for" part is what we as practical beings do (the old "hunter/gatherer" thing). And so is the "...then do that" part -- "shoot the arrow."

See shot, eclipse it (or "overlap" it, as the case may be), then shoot it. I believe this is as simple a method to "aiming" as there is.

I really do believe we pool players have it wrong with all this "bark analysis" stuff. No other cue sport spends as much time on aiming as we pool players do. And the sad part is, our sport doesn't demand nearly the same level of accuracy as other cue sports (e.g. snooker and Russian Pyramid). Those sports almost take aiming for granted; the fundamentals and execution are more important.

Again, thanks for the kind words. I really do think these forums are blessed with a player of your caliber willing to weather a little pointed questioning for the purposes of understanding. And I would say this even if you stated that you use, oh, I don't know, dust particles or light reflections in the balls, or anything. It doesn't matter. Just your participation certainly helps to enrich these boards!

-Sean
 
Scott Lee said:
book collector...I'm just trying to clarify something you said. You say the words "hit in the same place", but don't you really mean "aim at the same place"? Of course the 'hit' will be in the same place. That's because you only have the width of the pocket as a small margin of error. However, you must compensate your 'aim' to take into account squirt and deflection...which is what happens when you add sidespin to the CB. So, in effect, when you play with english, you "aim" at a slightly different place on the OB, to be able to "hit" the correct place on the OB, corresponding to the right line to the pocket.Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott,

I bolded the sentence above to ask a question. To compensate for inside spin, a player can hit an object ball fuller. Have you ever tried or do you aim the object ball slightly away from the pocket for inside spin?

For instance, you are cutting a ball to the left and you are using left (inside) spin. You can aim the object ball to the right of the pocket instead of aiming for a thicker hit with the cue ball.

It's just another option and a different way of looking at a shot. I've found I can stroke the ball better without aiming for a specific contact point on these shots and it is easier to estimate the squirt.

Best,
Mike
 
Scott Lee said:
book collector...I'm just trying to clarify something you said. You say the words "hit in the same place", but don't you really mean "aim at the same place"? Of course the 'hit' will be in the same place. That's because you only have the width of the pocket as a small margin of error. However, you must compensate your 'aim' to take into account squirt and deflection...which is what happens when you add sidespin to the CB. So, in effect, when you play with english, you "aim" at a slightly different place on the OB, to be able to "hit" the correct place on the OB, corresponding to the right line to the pocket.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...
I should have said a cueball hit 6/10ths above center to attain perfect rolling and hit at the same speed. So it was clearer.
Actually no. If we all aim at the same place with just above center ball at the same speed, but don't hit that place, the ball can't go. Now, when you put spin on the cueball, squirt, deflection, throw all come into play. If you use backhand English fronthand English pivot your cuestick pivot your hips , etc . You add to the amount of jazzz you can put on the cueball and to a lesser degree on the object ball. You have an infinite number of variables as opposed to only 1 in the shot mentioned.
I'm pretty certain that most of the top players have a way of knowing what is going to happen , even on these extreme shots. That's what seperates them from the rest of the field.
We can all cut balls in the corner and shoot straight in and draw etc . It is when we get a goofy angle and have to do something funny with the cueball that we start getting in trouble.
Strangely we all do the same things, we rattle the pocket or hit the tit even though we thought we hit it perfect.
I think people can play high level pool by playing good patterns , good safeties and being a good shot maker ,even up to a good shortstop level, but the upper levels do things they are not doing.
I doubt any of them would ever admit it, why should they?
 
stan shuffett said:
I would love to share and share a lot but when words like rubbish are used to describe what I teach then I see no point. I miss posting on AZ but I do not care for the negativity that quickly comes my way. I make one post in relation to a pro player's experience and I get.....well, I think it's clear to most.

Stan
Click to expand...

It should be clear as day to all you're too sensitive.

Those that can, play. Those that can't, teach.
 
stan shuffett said:
Lou. you likely remember the last time I took a stand. You had made a post which I read and immedidately responded to. While I was composing, you edited your original post. I took a firm stand in my response and immediately the entire thread was gone, HMMMMM......So, I decided that would be it for me for awhile. Anyway, I am quite busy with instruction and I actually do not have a lot time nor mental energy to put into offense or defense on AZ. Let's just say that I am in semi-dormancy for a spell.
Plus, I am wanting to compete again and that takes a lot of time as well.
Later Lou,
Stan
Click to expand...


I don't remember the incident and I have no idea what sends a thread to the AZ mass grave (I have my suspicions, but nothing concrete). In fact, I was surprised to see this one still up this morning.

Lou Figueroa
 
mantis99 said:
Its a crying shame that a man of this knowledge level and passion for the game cannot feel welcomed here and enjoy posting. Why people who disagree with CTE can't stay out of his threads I'll never know. Also, why he can't just post about anything and not have others subject him to negativity I'll never know. Either way, I am strongly certain that it is more our loss than his.
Click to expand...


I guess if you feel that making certain people welcomed is important enough you could volunteer for the AZ Main Forum Welcome Wagon... You know: bake em some cookies, take em a casserole, or sumthin'.

Lou Figueroa
just an idea
 
sfleinen said:
Mike:

You hit on one of my absolute favorite topics (you might remember my article in the 14.1 forum about leveraging the subconscious).

Whatever method is used to aim, the end-point is this (what I bolded in your post above). What I think is key, is this: "is 'it' conducive to embedding into the subconscious?" If there's too many steps, it's not (read: paralysis through analysis). The idea is to see it, get down on it, shoot it. Not, "'x' number of steps...arrive at it, and then shoot it." The conscious mind can only maintain focus for so long, whereas the subconscious can pretty much function the whole time you're awake. IMHO (and IMHE), at least.

Good post,
-Sean
Click to expand...


I think I've often said the same thing in one shape or another: whatever you come up with it has to be something that you can repeat almost unconsciously or it'll breakdown under pressure. I've known many guys that come up with certain setups or procedures to shoot what they think is their best game. Under ideal practice conditions they get things to work and convince themselves that they' "got it."

But then they get in a money game and even if they start out great they inevitably start falling apart, until they become helpless because they have nothing solid to fall back on. Whatever you come up with you almost have to be able to do it in your sleep.

Lou Figueroa
 
Scott Lee said:
Mitchxout...Can you explain what you mean by this statement?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I meant cut shots hit with a sliding cue ball (stun) vs draw have a different point of aim. Draw is a thicker hit (less CIT) vs stun (more CIT). Very large or small angles don't apply. About a 1/2 hit creates the most CIT and the most difference in aim between stun and draw. Please add to or correct me if I'm wrong or not complete.
 
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