Yeah, I wondered about that too. Especially since I am kind of older, and do like to play for a little :grin:
how do you guys feel about hustles and hustlers?
- Thread starter smashmouth
- Start date
Yeah, I wondered about that too. Especially since I am kind of older, and do like to play for a little :grin:
The best part of the match-up was the barkfest, and everybody enjoys a good barkfest, two players trying to get the money and the game right, so they could begin the battle. Go to the Derby City Classic, at least the ones I used to attend, and see how much people enjoy a good action match.
Years ago, I ran with a road agent named Geese. He busted a man in Rome, Georgia, at a bar. When we arrived, we asked the bartender if anybody wanted to play some 9-ball. Back then, this was perfectly acceptable because action, especially down South, was rampant. The bartender called the local best player. I watched the match unfold, and within a short time, Geese busted him. When we left, I saw the local best player sitting on a curb crying his eyes out. He lost his rent money and didn't want to go home. I felt horrible. Geese, on the other hand, said to me, "Hey, if he didn't lose it to me, he would have lost it to somebody else. And he definitely would have taken my dough if I lost. You're a sucker." :frown:
NO not everyone enjoys a barkfest. What I have seen too much at DCC is all Bark and No Bite. A lot of talk from guys with no money, wanting the most incredible spots and calling someone a nit if they wont give it to them.
A little bark is all that is needed. :thumbup: If both are serious.
Geese was right, too. I am no champion, but I had guys that played me weekly and never won. I did give them pretty good spots, like 7,8, and 9 playing 9 ball, and I would also gamble 2:1 on the money. For a guy like me, who often got spots, now having to give them is a big deal.
If I didn't take their money, they would have found (and did find) games that were even worse. At least with me, they had a chance to win.
Ken
Let's just say that when it comes to barking, there's only a few who will back up their bark with their action. All others are wannabe barkers. :grin:
Geese did *not* have a great personality when it came to drumming up action. When we were on the road, it was me that usually did the talking. His approach was awful. He'd walk into a joint, say, "Does anybody want to play any 9-ball?" and if nobody replied, he'd look at me and say, "Okay, let's go." It used to drive me nuts. :embarrassed2:
Keith, on the other hand, has charisma and barks in such a manner that it catches everybody's attention, and he doesn't try to anger or hurt anyone in the process as he's luring in his prey. People enjoy hearing Keith bark, and he's the only pool player I have ever known who can walk in any place on the face of the earth and, if there's action there, get it going, each time and every time. :yes:
Shannon Daulton also has the gift of gab and can drum up the action. People enjoy hearing Shannon bark.
Not everybody has the gift of gab and can bark without offending. It is an acquired skill set in the wonderful world of pool. :grin-angelic:
What about the person trying to make / thinking they are in a fair game?
Read the rest of the post that you quoted part of. There is your answer.
People often confuse matching up with hustling. They also confuse the barking that sometimes happens with matching up as hustler's moves.
When two pool players are matching up then they are both looking for an edge.
It is only when someone endeavors to put on show to disguise true speed that it becomes a hustle. As a road man told it is like robbery without a gun.
A good barkfest can be as entertaining as a comedy set. Or it can be nonsense stupidity.
When two pool players are matching up then they are both looking for an edge.
It is only when someone endeavors to put on show to disguise true speed that it becomes a hustle. As a road man told it is like robbery without a gun.
A good barkfest can be as entertaining as a comedy set. Or it can be nonsense stupidity.
Well said 100 percent agree - 50 yrs of playing this game Ive seen enough.
I don't see an answer in this...
If you're trying to match up fairly and someone hides their speed and "hustles" you, how does that make you a hustler?
I have seen instances of young guys thinking an old guy is an easy mark and the old guy takes the youngsters cash.
I watched a live stream a few months ago where an old Filipino guy with no teeth relieved a kid and his backer of some significant greenbacks. Young kid, ball cap turned sideways, full of piss and vinegar.
If you got hustled most of the time it's your own damned fault.
1. If you are gambling to make some money, and truly looking for a "fair" game, you shouldn't be gambling.
2. If you are going to play someone, and you don't do your "due diligence" in finding out how he plays, you just hustled yourself. You ALWAYS assume that you are tugging on superman's cape when you don't know your opponent. You can ask around, but that will seldom give you the actual truth. The only way to really know is to get on the table and find out. But, you have to be willing to lose a set or two to find out. If you aren't willing to lose a set or two, you weren't really looking for a "fair" game in the first place, were you??
3. Bottom line is, if you don't think you have the "best of it", why are you playing for money?
There are millions of people who gamble socially. They aren't trying to make a living and aren't trying to bust the other guy. They aren't trying to trick anyone or hide their speed. They just want to play and have a good time, maybe win but if not then not the end of the world. They like to think that the people they are playing are about their level.
Like a social poker game. Pro speed poker players ROB those games.
In fact the very reason that pro speed anyone uses the term ROB when speaking of how easy it is to win against weak players is because that's how easy it is.
Of course anyone who plays for money would like to win. They want the thrill that comes with winning. But if they lose against an equal player they at least felt that they had the opportunity to win. It is when the opportunity is completely taken away that it becomes a robbery.
Making it the mark's fault that he was duped is like saying it's the employee's fault for jumping ship to a new job where the owner was a week away from bankruptcy. Obviously if a person knew that the company was insolvent they wouldn't take the new one. And as obviously if they know the carnival game is rigged against them they wouldn't play. And if they knew that the player they faced has no chance to lose they wouldn't play.
So hustling relies on both the omission of information by silence and the altering of information through deception. it's not right to say that only hustlers get hustled. not everyone who gambles is a hustler. Some of them are simply people who like to gamble for the thrill and don't want to be taken advantage of. They didn't sign up to be lied to or be otherwise manipulated into playing for money.
Like a social poker game. Pro speed poker players ROB those games.
In fact the very reason that pro speed anyone uses the term ROB when speaking of how easy it is to win against weak players is because that's how easy it is.
Of course anyone who plays for money would like to win. They want the thrill that comes with winning. But if they lose against an equal player they at least felt that they had the opportunity to win. It is when the opportunity is completely taken away that it becomes a robbery.
Making it the mark's fault that he was duped is like saying it's the employee's fault for jumping ship to a new job where the owner was a week away from bankruptcy. Obviously if a person knew that the company was insolvent they wouldn't take the new one. And as obviously if they know the carnival game is rigged against them they wouldn't play. And if they knew that the player they faced has no chance to lose they wouldn't play.
So hustling relies on both the omission of information by silence and the altering of information through deception. it's not right to say that only hustlers get hustled. not everyone who gambles is a hustler. Some of them are simply people who like to gamble for the thrill and don't want to be taken advantage of. They didn't sign up to be lied to or be otherwise manipulated into playing for money.
Very well said.
This is a much better explanation of what my thoughts are.
The majority of the money games I see are exactly this. People, who know each other, playing for cash to make the game fun.
I play with guys who absolutely destroy me and I walk into the hall still betting with these guys. I'm usually confident I'll lose money but it makes the game fun and I learn under the pressure.
:thumbup:
Sent from my X501_USA_Cricket using Tapatalk 2
What????
Stealing is stealing whether you think they can afford it or not. Hustling is tricking someone out of their money by misrepresenting who you are or how you play. That in my mind is a low form of human existence regardless of who you are doing it to.
If someone wants to willingly bet their money against someone they know is better than them, than so be it. If they are so cocky that they think they are better than they are, even when warned what your actual speed is (which is true in many cases), then so be it. However, if you purposefully hide your speed or trick someone into a hustle that thinks they are playing a matchup that is actually different than it is, than you are in the wrong in my mind. People can argue all they want that someone wouldn't get hustled if they weren't looking to make money themselves, and they can justify it with many other excuses that I have heard. None the less, whether someone deserves it or not does not change the morality of the hustler's action, and in my mind it is stealing.
I could personally never play someone without being truthful about my speed. If they want to play me great, if not, so be it, but I can go to bed at night happy with myself. Many others can hustle and still be happy themselves, but I guess that is where the problem lies to begin with.
Ummmm.....Betting in most pool halls is not legal!
If you don't want to lose money getting hustled...don't play people you don't know. The 100's of times I've played on the lemon, never once did one person that knew he could beat the speed I was playing at offer me a spot or say he was better than me. Everybody tries to hustle. Some just are better at it. Johnnyt
I doubt you had many if any people feel sorry for you and let you keep the money if you lost.
I don't recall that ever happening.
I've clocked someone wrong before and lost money,but I never froze up money with someone I didn't know. I always played them by the game...pay after EACH game. Johnnyt