Without watching someone play for a while, how do YOU judge how well someone must play? Do you judge them by their equipment? I am doing some research for my own knowledge...Thanks
how do you...
- Thread starter dukeboy1977
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There is no way of knowing someones ability without watching them play. Only way you would know anything about a player without seeing them play is word of mouth. If someone is good the chances are you'd know it.
I have to say though that I don't fully understand your question. Do you mean in a tournament? Just going by the brand and model of cue they're using as they take it from their case? If so equipment means nothing. If someone has a $1000 cue, it doesn't mean they're going to be amazing, just they take the game seriously.
If you approach every opponent the same, believing that they will punish your mistakes, not give you easy chances but still believe you're capable of beating them you are more likely to not make idiotic mistakes and get frustrated when you do make a mistake. Hence you will be fully concentrated and more likely to play your best and win.
But yeah there is nothing worse than losing to someone with a cue that's worth less than your belt becasuse you underestimated them!
I have to say though that I don't fully understand your question. Do you mean in a tournament? Just going by the brand and model of cue they're using as they take it from their case? If so equipment means nothing. If someone has a $1000 cue, it doesn't mean they're going to be amazing, just they take the game seriously.
If you approach every opponent the same, believing that they will punish your mistakes, not give you easy chances but still believe you're capable of beating them you are more likely to not make idiotic mistakes and get frustrated when you do make a mistake. Hence you will be fully concentrated and more likely to play your best and win.
But yeah there is nothing worse than losing to someone with a cue that's worth less than your belt becasuse you underestimated them!
not so
I disagree. Equipment should mean nothing, though there are MANY players who believe what you do. It does not mean they take the game more seriously, it only means they spent their money on a cue instead of somewhere else. Personally, I have had cues ranging from $100 up to over $1300 and though some might have looked nicer, the quality of play in them changed too little to notice. The only difference in my equipment over the years which has made a big impact is going from $20 Talisman med. tips to Moori med. $30 tips. Moori tips are far superior to me and have made things a little easier to me. I hope more believe what you do about equipment, and I believe more actually do....Maybe a little surprise will come prove you completely wrong someday?
I disagree. Equipment should mean nothing, though there are MANY players who believe what you do. It does not mean they take the game more seriously, it only means they spent their money on a cue instead of somewhere else. Personally, I have had cues ranging from $100 up to over $1300 and though some might have looked nicer, the quality of play in them changed too little to notice. The only difference in my equipment over the years which has made a big impact is going from $20 Talisman med. tips to Moori med. $30 tips. Moori tips are far superior to me and have made things a little easier to me. I hope more believe what you do about equipment, and I believe more actually do....Maybe a little surprise will come prove you completely wrong someday?
Another way...
I've found that you can learn quite a lot about a player's skills by simply engaging them in a conversation about pool. Don't even need to see them pick up a cue!
I've found that you can learn quite a lot about a player's skills by simply engaging them in a conversation about pool. Don't even need to see them pick up a cue!
Never judge a person by their equipment, judge them by their stroke , ball pocketing ability's and the way they play position on the balls and you may get a good read of sorts on them.
David Harcrow
How do I judge someone's ability ?
The best way I have found is to watch their stroke.
This can be disguised of course, so it goes on a case-by-case basis.
In league play, i'll dog the first match against someone I do not know, as they ALWAYS seem to know more about me, than I do about them. (advantage to them)
I'm a gentleman about it, and always let them know in some subtle way that things aren't what they really seem to be.
Then i'll say "until next time," or , "I'll look forward to playing again" (Now I know something about how they play, and its even next time we play).
Pool should be played and won/lost by players' abilities and the luck of the roll, not silly little head games. :wink:
The best way I have found is to watch their stroke.
This can be disguised of course, so it goes on a case-by-case basis.
In league play, i'll dog the first match against someone I do not know, as they ALWAYS seem to know more about me, than I do about them. (advantage to them)
I'm a gentleman about it, and always let them know in some subtle way that things aren't what they really seem to be.
Then i'll say "until next time," or , "I'll look forward to playing again" (Now I know something about how they play, and its even next time we play).Pool should be played and won/lost by players' abilities and the luck of the roll, not silly little head games. :wink:
This is an odd response to his statement. Your question asked if equipment would help determine how good someone was. I think his response meant that equipment had little to do with being able to determine someone's ability, and you acted like he was saying that it did. i do agree with him that most likely someone with a $1000 cue takes the game more seriously than the average bar player, however their are many like that who have the money to spend but don't play over a C level. None the less, I think his point was that looking at their equpment was of little value in determining one's playing level.
How do I judge someone's ability ?
The best way I have found is to watch their stroke.
This can be disguised of course, so it goes on a case-by-case basis.
In league play, i'll dog the first match against someone I do not know, as they ALWAYS seem to know more about me, than I do about them. (advantage to them)
I'm a gentleman about it, and always let them know in some subtle way that things aren't what they really seem to be.
Pool should be played and won/lost by players' abilities and the luck of the roll, not silly little head games. :wink:
Pool shouldn't be won by silly head games, but you "dog" the first match against an unknown to gain an advantage. That seems like an oxymoron as you are yourself playing head games. I personally would never dog a match for any reason.
I don't think you can gauge a player without playing them for something real. The better player can disguise their game if needed. I do agree though that if I was going to try to gauge their play, I would look at their stroke, position play, and most of all their pattern play as that shows a knowledge of the game that takes practice and study to gain.
You can't always tell.
There's this real old guy who goes by the name of "No Lights Charlie", who hangs around the pool hall, and watches. That's all he does. He watches.
The problem is, he's blind as a bat. Lost both eyes in a freak boiler explosion. Somehow though, call it a sixth sense, he knows exactly what's happening around the room.
Anyway, whenever I want to know how some new guy plays, or if any of the usual suspects are playing over their heads, I go to him. He gives me the lowdown on everybody, I buy him a couple of schnapps, and everything is right as rain.
The other night I go over to where "No Lights" is sitting and ask him what's going on. Charlie tells me there's this fellow who just got in from Chicago and wants to play some One Pocket for fifty a game. He says the guy is a sucker for a long shot off the end rail. Can't make them to save his ass. I buy him a shot of peppermint schnapps and go looking for the guy from Chitown.
I find him, but it turns out that he is a she, and she is hotter than a three dollar pistol. We match up and right out of the gate I leave her long up against the rail, just like Charlie suggested. She shoots for a thin cut on the five ball, makes it, and goes out. I lose two more games, quit, and go back over to where Charlie is.
I tell him that I have just had my clock cleaned by a good looking woman who could make a long shot from anywhere on the table.
Charlie says, "I was talking about her husband." :smile:
There's this real old guy who goes by the name of "No Lights Charlie", who hangs around the pool hall, and watches. That's all he does. He watches.
The problem is, he's blind as a bat. Lost both eyes in a freak boiler explosion. Somehow though, call it a sixth sense, he knows exactly what's happening around the room.
Anyway, whenever I want to know how some new guy plays, or if any of the usual suspects are playing over their heads, I go to him. He gives me the lowdown on everybody, I buy him a couple of schnapps, and everything is right as rain.
The other night I go over to where "No Lights" is sitting and ask him what's going on. Charlie tells me there's this fellow who just got in from Chicago and wants to play some One Pocket for fifty a game. He says the guy is a sucker for a long shot off the end rail. Can't make them to save his ass. I buy him a shot of peppermint schnapps and go looking for the guy from Chitown.
I find him, but it turns out that he is a she, and she is hotter than a three dollar pistol. We match up and right out of the gate I leave her long up against the rail, just like Charlie suggested. She shoots for a thin cut on the five ball, makes it, and goes out. I lose two more games, quit, and go back over to where Charlie is.
I tell him that I have just had my clock cleaned by a good looking woman who could make a long shot from anywhere on the table.
Charlie says, "I was talking about her husband." :smile:
I knew I was going to need to explain this :
Mantis99: Let me explain this as I knew when I posted I'd likely wind-up having to do so....
Firstly, I don't advocate "dogging" a match. I do this in ONLY ONE situation, and this is in league play with a new team at the beginning of the season, that was formed with players from God knows where. As there are some 20 tables for practice b-4 matches start, it is hard to keep an eye on the new people. In this instance only, sometimes I dog a game in the match to see how they react to certain situations. eg: I leave them buried to see how they kick instead of taking the high percentage pot. I leave them against the rail instead of taking the pattern shot for the run-out, etc. Sometimes, depending on the players ability, I may lose. I chalk it up to experience as I know i'll be facing them again at least a few times later in the season of the league.
I'm not trying to brag, but my unknown opponents somehow seem to know all about me for some reason. ie how I shoot,... what I shoot,... etc. I don't see this one occassion as "head-games", I see it as levleing the playing feld again.
In any other instance, such as matching up against an unknown player inna tournament, then you need to follow the advice of ChopSticks, and play like you won't get another turn at the table.
Mantis99: Let me explain this as I knew when I posted I'd likely wind-up having to do so....
Firstly, I don't advocate "dogging" a match. I do this in ONLY ONE situation, and this is in league play with a new team at the beginning of the season, that was formed with players from God knows where. As there are some 20 tables for practice b-4 matches start, it is hard to keep an eye on the new people. In this instance only, sometimes I dog a game in the match to see how they react to certain situations. eg: I leave them buried to see how they kick instead of taking the high percentage pot. I leave them against the rail instead of taking the pattern shot for the run-out, etc. Sometimes, depending on the players ability, I may lose. I chalk it up to experience as I know i'll be facing them again at least a few times later in the season of the league.
I'm not trying to brag, but my unknown opponents somehow seem to know all about me for some reason. ie how I shoot,... what I shoot,... etc. I don't see this one occassion as "head-games", I see it as levleing the playing feld again.
In any other instance, such as matching up against an unknown player inna tournament, then you need to follow the advice of ChopSticks, and play like you won't get another turn at the table.
Watching them play is the only way. I've worked hard, saved some, now retired. 69 years old. My case & cues total around $2,500. Probably a D player...strictly a recreational player. I make frequent 4-5 ball runs, but only a rudimentary understanding of how to play shape. I bought the good stuff simply because I wanted it...with no thoughts at all that it would make me a better player.
My "honorary nephew" probably has less than $300 in his complete outfit.
He plays good enough to have marched undefeated through the men's masters class at the Western BCA 9 ball championships.
My "honorary nephew" probably has less than $300 in his complete outfit.
He plays good enough to have marched undefeated through the men's masters class at the Western BCA 9 ball championships.
Experience is your best teacher, until you understand the intricacies of play and the proper body mechanics it's Very difficult and near impossible, kinda like pickin' dogs in a dog race. Good players can adjust their game to pretty much any player and conditions. An example would be, I could play two players of different calibers and have em both walk away feeling they need the 8 ball to win, when in fact one needs the 6 wild and the other needs the 7& 8 and the break. This is a sport and there is No Simple answer.
It's hunting season. There are the guys with the best clothes, guns, scopes and ammo.
It's the guy with the overalls, barn boots and an old shotgun that is draggin' out a deer.
It's the guy with the overalls, barn boots and an old shotgun that is draggin' out a deer.
Unless they are laying down, I can usually tell if they can play after hitting one ball.
From my experience, you need to see them play, and more than once.
Telling if they're a complete noob or somewhat experienced is easy enough, by their form. You might be able to get that much information from a single shot.
But the difference between a decent local and a pro? You may need to watch several racks. I've seen pros miss ball in hand and I've seen APA6's run a rack of 9 ball as perfectly as any human can, textbook all the way.
Equipment doesn't matter at all, lots of guys get obsessed with equipment and can't make three balls. If they have $5,000 dollars worth of equipment all I can say for sure is they probably didn't start playing this week. Beyond that though, who knows.
Telling if they're a complete noob or somewhat experienced is easy enough, by their form. You might be able to get that much information from a single shot.
But the difference between a decent local and a pro? You may need to watch several racks. I've seen pros miss ball in hand and I've seen APA6's run a rack of 9 ball as perfectly as any human can, textbook all the way.
Equipment doesn't matter at all, lots of guys get obsessed with equipment and can't make three balls. If they have $5,000 dollars worth of equipment all I can say for sure is they probably didn't start playing this week. Beyond that though, who knows.
Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.
Tramp...Now THAT is just too damn funny! You come up with some of the best jokes on here! :thumbup:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I'm surprised more people haven't agreed with this.
As someone that pays attention when I read what people write on this site, I think I have a pretty good idea how a lot of people on AZ play.
You can learn a lot just by listening to people but if you aren't at least the equivalent of an APA 7 things will come up in an honest conversation about pool that would key me in on this fact.
Another thing I've noticed is if you haven't yet reached this level of play it's really hard to differentiate between a good amateur player and real pro, or even between 7's.
I experienced this just recently while listening in on a conversation about a particular player. The guy in question is a weak 7. He would get absolutely destroyed by a seasoned 7. The gap in play between a low 7 and a high one is so enormous to those in the know, but many people just can't see it.
You would really have to be student of the game to not play at this level but still be able to tell the difference between these types of players.