How does a Palmer feel compared to a Balabushka?

PDX

PDX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a late 60's full splice titlist Palmer cue that plays quite well. Surprisingly it is light, under 18oz, but moves the ball like a 20oz cue. I'm curious how a Balabushka fullsplice titlist cue would feel in comparison to a Palmer fullsplice titlist cue from the same era. Palmer supplied shaft wood to Balabushka, so they both roughly have the same quality. I would assume George would cherry pick his shaft wood. Just curious, as I doubt I'll ever get a chance to play with one.
 
I'm in the same boat...never played with a Bushka. I do have a Palmer model M, 2nd catalog. Will confess that my Josey is a much better cue for my feel.

Shaft wood? I'd give the Palmer the edge for tighter ring count.
 
Completely different feel! The Bushka felt light and perfectly balanced in your hands (average weight was a 19) and went through the ball like a hot knife through butter, so smooth. You only had to guide the cue and let it do the work. Bushka, Rambo and Martin were on top in the 50's and 60's. Palmer's to me felt like a production cue, adequate but not exceptional in any way. When Szamboti and Joss started making cues, they took over the serious players market in the early 70's. Ginacue and Tad were very popular player's cues as well. Palmer's only seemed popular with the East Coast crowd and even the real players back there wanted a Szam or Joss.
 
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I had an early 70's joss, thought it played similar to my 83 Schon. I played with a fancy Rambo, which my Palmer feels quite similar. I've had a few other Palmers, they were heavy and chunky. A late 70's Tad is still at the top of the heap. My Dale Patten tells the balls where to go, it has that solid 70's refined feel. Maybe one day I'll get a chance to try a Szam or Bushka.
 
jay helfert said:
Completely different feel! The Bushka felt light and perfectly balanced in your hands (average weight was a 19) and went through the ball like a hot knife through butter, so smooth. You only had to guide the cue and let it do the work. Bushka, Rambo and Martin were on top in the 50's and 60's. Palmer's to me felt like a production cue, adequate but not exceptional in any way. When Szamboti and Joss started making cues, they took over the serious players market in the early 70's. Ginacue and Tad were very popular player's cues as well. Palmer's only seemed popular with the East Coast crowd and even the real players back there wanted a Szam or Joss.
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What Jay said - tho I have banged a ball with a Palmer or 2 that I felt hit plenty good enough.

As to the story that George got his shaft wood from Palmer.
Two guys that spent thousands of dollars roaming around the world researching an encyclopedia
about pool equipment - and probably thousands of hours writing it and getting it published,
say it was exactly the opposite.

George ordered shaft blanks from a dowel company in New England 1000 at a time.

He would evaluate them for quality, choosing maybe 10 or so for cues he would build,
and 20-ish for "repairs". The rest he would sell to Palmer for 50 cents each.

Not to say George NEVER went to Palmer and came back with a
fistful of shaft wood, but that was not nearly typical - IIUC.

Dale
 
Bushka added a bolt in the A joint from what I've been told to add weight forward
So that would change the feel ,,
Also from what I'm told the Bushka's made from Zam's blanks are the best playing I've only played with ones made from titelist blanks ,

Adam made a copy of a Bushka Ah10 I think very similar build since it's from the same blank I had a friend who hand one and my predator shaft fit on it and it played real good
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I have had several of each
and i liked both
can't really define the difference,but I do remember the feel
on a bushka

both are nice cues
 
when gene balner worked for frank paradise and then quit and opened his own shop, both times the cues he worked on hit well and had good craftsmanship.
his son soon came into the business and everything suffered and became production cues.
 
one stroke said:
Bushka added a bolt in the A joint from what I've been told to add weight forward
So that would change the feel ,,
Also from what I'm told the Bushka's made from Zam's blanks are the best playing I've only played with ones made from titelist blanks ,

Adam made a copy of a Bushka Ah10 I think very similar build since it's from the same blank I had a friend who hand one and my predator shaft fit on it and it played real good
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Click to expand...

As Captain of the Reading Police it is my responsibility to inform you the OP inquired about fullsplice Titlist butts,
neither Palmers nor Buskas would have a bolt... because there would not be an "A" joint.

Please read safely.

Officer Dale - to serve and protect
 
Palmer - Bushka

Imo the Palmer doesn't feel nearly
as expensive :grin:. IJS IMO :thumbup:
 
pdcue said:
What Jay said - tho I have banged a ball with a Palmer or 2 that I felt hit plenty good enough.

As to the story that George got his shaft wood from Palmer.
Two guys that spent thousands of dollars roaming around the world researching an encyclopedia
about pool equipment - and probably thousands of hours writing it and getting it published,
say it was exactly the opposite.

George ordered shaft blanks from a dowel company in New England 1000 at a time.

He would evaluate them for quality, choosing maybe 10 or so for cues he would build,
and 20-ish for "repairs". The rest he would sell to Palmer for 50 cents each.

Not to say George NEVER went to Palmer and came back with a
fistful of shaft wood, but that was not nearly typical - IIUC.

Dale
Click to expand...

Hi Dale,

I sent your comments to Peter Balner. Here's his response:

" Hello Chris,

I remember George buying all kinds of cue parts, including shafts from us. He was so selective that when I got in 5,000 7/8" maple dowels, George would come and select from this batch maybe 30 pieces for which he'd pay more than I was getting for a finished shaft. I never quite understood the entire process - he'd spend a full day looking at dowels and valuing imaginary characteristics that only he was party to.

I'm sure that George was also buying shaft wood from lumber suppliers. I don't remember buying any shafts from George, but it's possible.

I hope all is well.

Peter


In terms of how Palmer's play compared to a Balabushka, well here's my take on it. I've only played with three Balabushkas but they were surprisingly similar. They are a very well made cue, especially for the era, finely balanced, and "just right" in every department. In my opinion, Balabushka's were a more refined playing cue than other cues of this era. If you find a nicely balanced one piece Titlist from the 1950's, they seem very similar to me.

Palmer's are all over the board in the feel department. There is a great deal of variation in their materials and weights. The early Palmers made from Titlists are the closest thing they made to playing a Balabushka. If you have owned and many Palmer's as I have, believe me, you'll find some great playing cues. I still have a couple that are similar to Balabushka's and if anybody is coming my way they can test them out. The cues from the first and especially the 2nd catalog made from Titlist blanks are the closest you will come.

I am sure you would find the vast majority of players could not pass a blindfold test between many hand selected Palmers and a Balabushka or Szamboti.
 
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A Palmer feels about $10,000 to $20,000+ lighter then a Balabuska depending on model and condition.
 
pdcue said:
As Captain of the Reading Police it is my responsibility to inform you the OP inquired about fullsplice Titlist butts,
neither Palmers nor Buskas would have a bolt... because there would not be an "A" joint.

Please read safely.

Officer Dale - to serve and protect
Click to expand...

Well he's barking up the wrong tree they are half splice cues not full splice


1
 
I would have to think my Titlist conversion would play very similar to a Balabushka Titlist full-splice conversion of the same simple build (SS joint and 5/16-14 pin, collars, wrap, delrin butt cap, weight bolt (if any), rubber bumper, and bumper screw).

Other than mine being slimmed down to a more modern feel, there really isn't much difference. It has all the same parts. I had it made to resemble the real Balabushka Titlist that is shown in the center picture with the carpet. My cue is at the top and bottom..
 

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TATE said:
Hi Dale,

I sent your comments to Peter Balner. Here's his response:

" Hello Chris,

I remember George buying all kinds of cue parts, including shafts from us. He was so selective that when I got in 5,000 7/8" maple dowels, George would come and select from this batch maybe 30 pieces for which he'd pay more than I was getting for a finished shaft. I never quite understood the entire process - he'd spend a full day looking at dowels and valuing imaginary characteristics that only he was party to.

I'm sure that George was also buying shaft wood from lumber suppliers. I don't remember buying any shafts from George, but it's possible.

I hope all is well.

Peter


In terms of how Palmer's play compared to a Balabushka, well here's my take on it. I've only played with three Balabushkas but they were surprisingly similar. They are a very well made cue, especially for the era, finely balanced, and "just right" in every department. In my opinion, Balabushka's were a more refined playing cue than other cues of this era. If you find a nicely balanced one piece Titlist from the 1950's, they seem very similar to me.

Palmer's are all over the board in the feel department. There is a great deal of variation in their materials and weights. The early Palmers made from Titlists are the closest thing they made to playing a Balabushka. If you have owned and many Palmer's as I have, believe me, you'll find some great playing cues. I still have a couple that are similar to Balabushka's and if anybody is coming my way they can test them out. The cues from the first and especially the 2nd catalog made from Titlist blanks are the closest you will come.

I am sure you would find the vast majority of players could not pass a blindfold test between many hand selected Palmers and a Balabushka or Szamboti.
Click to expand...
No ego in that response.

Was George B's esotericcentricity widely documented ?

Yes I made a new word. Thanks Mr. Tate
 
Feels like my wallet's fatter! Played a Palmer once that an old-timer had; it was OK. Also played a "Balabushka" from another rold-timer, but I was green at the time and didn't know if it was a real one or one of the Adam copies...
 
Lonestar_jim said:
No ego in that response.

Was George B's esotericcentricity widely documented ?

Yes I made a new word. Thanks Mr. Tate
Click to expand...

Thank you!

The pro players loved him because he was truly concerned about their satisfaction. I have just heard stories from those who knew him. He has been described as very patient and exceedingly humble. He was easy to deal with and encouraged feedback.

What puzzled others may have been that George was a perfectionist. He seemed to have a better understanding of what it took to build a great cue than anybody else of that time and clearly it showed up in his work.

His legend has grown over time, but I think the man himself was well worthy of it.
 
one stroke said:
Well he's barking up the wrong tree they are half splice cues not full splice


1
Click to expand...

Sorry stroke... I guess you are unaware that both Palmer and George,
and most everybody else who made cues in those days, used Titlist fullsplice
cues as a "blank" for the butt. Mostly they were left as a fullsplice, as were the
fullsplice Rosewood blanks later supplied by Burton Spain.

When George started getting blanks from Szamboti they were half splice.

Dale
 
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