How Ethical Is It?

ridewiththewind

ridewiththewind

♥ Hippie Hustler ♥
Silver Member
To sell items, such as cues and cases, when you have custom ordered them, decided not to pay for them, and sell them just before they are completed? Not talking about a single cue or case here and there, talking about multiple ordered items.

Just curious.
 
ridewiththewind said:
To sell items, such as cues and cases, when you have custom ordered them, decided not to pay for them, and sell them just before they are completed? Not talking about a single cue or case here and there, talking about multiple ordered items.

Just curious.
Click to expand...

Lisa

I have 3 cues being made in the current Ginacue batch. It is my intention to sell at least 2 and maybe all 3 of them, and I have offered to sell them (although nobody has as of yet said yes) to a couple of people. I have sold cues before Ernie was done before and in a couple of instances, asked Ernie to change the wrap or shaft diameter before he was done and he never had a problem with it.

And I consider myself a completely ethical person (although I guess that most everybody feels that about themselves huh?).

Thanks

Kevin

PS: Although reading back, maybe I'm off topic because it is my intention to pay Ernie for the cues.
 
You would actually pay for the cues????? And you call yourself ethical?:smile:
 
I am confused by this question. How ethical is it to have something produced by a manufacturer, sell it, and decide not to pay the mfg? I don't think this is really a questionable ethical practice, it's pretty clear cut stealing.

Maybe I'm not around the cue trade enough, but is it general practice to stiff the cuemaker? If I request a custom cue and I don't like the way that it turns out and I don't want to pay for said item, don't I return the cue or refuse the cue from the cuemaker? How would I sell it?
 
As long as no one is taken out of their money or the product that they paid for, its ethical. If I had ordered 5 southwest 10 years ago and now they are due and I don't want them, I don't see why i can't sell the items as long as Southwest gets their money and the end user gets their Southwest. (just an example)

If there is no theivery invovled then I'm not sure why it would'nt be ethical.


PS. I reread the question too, Are you saying the cuemaker never got the money? And the person that ordered the cue sold it, pocketed the cash and stiffed the cuemaker???
 
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I don't see a problem with it at all.

However one point does require clarification, you say "decided not to pay for them"
and after that "sell just before completion". I would assume in your example
that the product would need to be paid when completely finished.
How would you know the person in your example would not pay out of their
own pocket should they be unable to sell the item?

In general though most cuemakers simply like to make and sell cues,
it's a business. Sure it's a business where some put their heart and soul into
but at the end of the day a sale has to be made.
If person X makes a downpayment and person Y makes the final payment
and gets the cue, I do not see a problem.

gr. Dave
 
No, no....the seller orders the items, some pretty high end, and decides they don't want them after all. Hypes the items as 'the best ever', although has never laid hands on said items, wants the buyer(s) to send the amount of deposit back to them, while having the buyer(s) send the bulk of the payment to the maker, to satisfy the debt. In some cases, the pricing of the item may have been negotiated down from that which the maker might normally charge.

Kevin, in your case you are actually completing your end of the deal with Ernie and taking delivery, thus they are your cues until you decide to part with them. Not the same scenario as I was asking about.

I realize that sometimes things happen in life...and sometimes this is a situation that can work out for everyone involved...however, the situation I am addressing is becoming more of the 'norm' as opposed to the 'exception'.

It may not be dishonest, but is it ethical? There is a difference.

Lisa
 
The norm for who?

i realize that sometimes things happen in life...and sometimes this is a situation that can work out for everyone involved...however said:
all cue transactions everywhere?
This cue maker?
This buyer?

SLIM
Click to expand...
 
ridewiththewind said:
No trap, no drama...just curious as to peoples' thoughts on the matter...nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for your reply.

Lisa
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Just surprised that you are sticking your fingers in the fire again, after the last incident when you screamed about wanting to have your account deleted from all the forums.


Eric >here we go again
 
SLIM said:
all cue transactions everywhere?
This cue maker?
This buyer?

SLIM
Click to expand...

I have been told it is a certain person commissioning the items, deciding to not follow through at the time of completion and selling...with funds to be forwarded directly to the maker, minus the deposit amount going to the seller.

Again, it may not be dishonest, but is it ethical?
 
If you order a cue from me and pay a $10 deposit, then decide you don't want the cue anymore & somebody else pays the remainder, that person gets the cue. I don't care how much they paid you to get that opportunity to buy the cue. It's none of my business. I get the money that I charge for the cue, regardless who gets the cue in the end. It is likely a minor PIA for me to drop dealing with you & begin somewhat fresh with somebody else, but that's all part of it. I change the name & address for shipping & maybe have to change a few personal details such as tips & shaft diameter, etc., but nothing much different than folks who change their minds at the last minute regarding specs.

Overall, I see nothing unethical about it. If there were lies & deceit involved then yeah, it's unethical. But so long as everybody is on the same page & things are clearly dealt, then nothing is unethical. My opinion.
 
Eric. said:
Just surprised that you are sticking your fingers in the fire again, after the last incident when you screamed about wanting to have your account deleted from all the forums.


Eric >here we go again
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Yeah, oddly, all the forum mods refused to delete my accounts...in both places. Go figure.

No fingers, no fire...just asking a simple question, and reading the replies.

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
I have been told it is a certain person commissioning the items, deciding to not follow through at the time of completion and selling...with funds to be forwarded directly to the maker, minus the deposit amount going to the seller.

Again, it may not be dishonest, but is it ethical?
Click to expand...

If it's a repeat thing & the builder doesn't want to mess with it anymore, he can always stop accepting orders from said person. Doesn't mean it's unethical, just annoying if it's a repeat thing.
 
ridewiththewind said:
No trap, no drama...just curious as to peoples' thoughts on the matter...nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for your reply.

Lisa
Click to expand...

Hi Lisa, good to see you posting again.

I saw for example recently somebody trying to do that with an $800 cue. It went something like - pay me my $100 deposit back and pay the cue-maker the $700 balance, and you have the cue.

Since there was no profit involved, I think it's totally ethical as long as the stated facts are true and each person is aware of and approves the 3 way agreement.

- I'm sure the cue maker would rather have $700 than an unsold cue and $100 cash.

- The original buyer would rather not lose his $100 deposit

- The prospective new buyer can buy a cue from a presumably desired maker without a long wait.

I see it as win-win-win.

The way the economy is, the circumstances are such that a typical six month to a year wait can find a lot of people out or work, investment accounts down, home values upside down , etc - all of which could affect someone's desire to spend on non-essential items.

Chris
 
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i think the original post was regarding the ethics of PRICE GOUGING!!!!

Often people buy things to sell at a profit and are flippers!!! The only difference is the products are new and purchased for the sole purpose of profiting from the less knowledgeable.

Some will not disclose the TRUE cost of the item and will HIDE the fact that the price is inflated. Many buyers believe they are getting the item at what the seller has invested and the purchase is FAIR. In essence the maker and the buyer are cheated!

The buyer could have bought the item direct for less money and is in essence cheated!!!

The maker could have sold to the buyer at the inflated price and profited the difference he/she never receives and again are cheated.

i have no problem with the practice of flipping as long as you DISCLOSE thats what you are doing. I have the CHOICE to buy or go else where.

The original poster thinks its unethical to buy an item and sell an item simultaneously with little to no expenses and no labor involved. This practice is commonly known as ARBITRAGE!!! Its common in money markets where variations and fluctuations in foreign exchange markets are routinely exploited for profit by buying low in one market and selling high simultaneously in another.

The lack of risk to the trader is the major cause of outrage!

You commission a Scruggs for $2000 and line up a buyer for $2500 you pocket $500 and never left home!!!

KD
 
We don't know enough to make an informed decision

ridewiththewind said:
yeah, oddly, all the forum mods refused to delete my account. Go figure.

No fingers, no fire...just asking a simple question, and reading the replies.

Lisa
Click to expand...

if the person who ordered the cues for whatever reason cannot or does not want to pay for the cues it seems to me that he is doing the ethical thin by finding another buyer for the cues.

If he makes a profit from this transaction, so what.

That would be a lesson learned by the cue maker.

I am not sure what you mean by "he decides not to pay for the cues".

SLIM
 
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