How late of an age can you start pool and ascend to short-stop or pro level?
- Thread starter Da Bank
- Start date
If it were true that one could become a professional at any age then there should be many older professionals on the circuit. Older people (especially retired individuals) have more time to practice. Endurance, stamina or whatever can be enhanced. Mental attitudes are often better in that older people are usually (not always) more laid back and less threatened by social concerns.
I think that as in most sports there are physical requirements that fade with age. We can be pretty darn good at the game but lack the pure physical ability that decreases with age and that is why there are not many older players on the circuit.
I can more than afford the tournaments, the travel and have the time to meet all the requirments that the average pro has. In fact they would present an interesting and fun life style now that my "other" career is finished. What I don't have, and never will have, is the level of ability that the pros have.
It is not a matter of heart, willingness, or financial resources. Been there done that, bought the t-shirt and wore it out. It is simply a matter of decreasing physical prowess.
If it comes to putting on a roof, hiking a trail or swimming a few miles I can still out work or compete with men 20 years younger than me. I don't have the natural talent to play a concert violin or run 400 balls on a pool table.
I suspect there are many others like me.
BTW consider people like Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, and Allen Hopkins. You see them at many tournaments and some are involved in other ways. But you don't see them competing with the younger guys any more. It is a fact of life, physical prowess decreases with age. The aging process is well under way by the time we are 40.
I find that my pool skills keep improving over the last five years since I retired (at age 60) and the game is definetly part of my life style. But I also know that I will never play like I could have played earlier in life. I also cannot not do some of the gymnastic moves nor use a diving board like I could when I was younger.
I think that as in most sports there are physical requirements that fade with age. We can be pretty darn good at the game but lack the pure physical ability that decreases with age and that is why there are not many older players on the circuit.
I can more than afford the tournaments, the travel and have the time to meet all the requirments that the average pro has. In fact they would present an interesting and fun life style now that my "other" career is finished. What I don't have, and never will have, is the level of ability that the pros have.
It is not a matter of heart, willingness, or financial resources. Been there done that, bought the t-shirt and wore it out. It is simply a matter of decreasing physical prowess.
If it comes to putting on a roof, hiking a trail or swimming a few miles I can still out work or compete with men 20 years younger than me. I don't have the natural talent to play a concert violin or run 400 balls on a pool table.
I suspect there are many others like me.
BTW consider people like Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, and Allen Hopkins. You see them at many tournaments and some are involved in other ways. But you don't see them competing with the younger guys any more. It is a fact of life, physical prowess decreases with age. The aging process is well under way by the time we are 40.
I find that my pool skills keep improving over the last five years since I retired (at age 60) and the game is definetly part of my life style. But I also know that I will never play like I could have played earlier in life. I also cannot not do some of the gymnastic moves nor use a diving board like I could when I was younger.
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Jabs at ScottLee notwithstanding...
you cannot take up pool at like 20 and in a couple of years play pro pool.has never happened yet the game is to hard.you can become a great player but good enough to play pro.
The comment I made before was partially poking fun but after reading your post, I feel compelled to write something a bit more serious.
A lot of people asked me about Jennifer Barretta and whether or not she could get anywhere. There were quite a few people that were convinced she wouldn't get past C level. I think there's some merit to their argument. They'd never seen it done before and on the whole, history can be as good an indicator as any to determine what the future will bring.
Well, obviously she proved them wrong. She proved us all wrong. Admittedly, if someone told me 10 years ago she would be a touring professional ranked as "Open" in local arenas, I would have looked at them cross-eyed. A lot of the women in the WPBA have been playing their entire lives and not a single Open level player I knew (male or female) started in their late 20s.
However, with each year that passed, she got better and I remember vividly coming up with my standard answer to people that questioned her - "How far she gets is up to her. Who are we to say what she can or cannot do?" Her improvement was none of our business. We had every right to enjoy it, to admire it. But to cap it? It's her life. Until I hear something else, you only get one. You might as well do whatever it is you want to do and make the most of it. If you start at 10, 20 or 90 is irrelevant. Yes, if history is any indication, the odds are against you as you get older. However, the other thing to consider is that anomalies happen.
Chase,
As long as you still have your eyesight and faculties, you can make pro with the following:
Faith - you gotta KNOW you can do it
Determination - you go two and out, you don't leave - you stay, work on your game the rest of the night..
Tournaments - play as many as you possibly can
Competition - play tougher players as often as possible
Games - learn them all, many skills carry over and can take you to the next level
Be a student - always learning, always reading, always watching, always paying attention
Take direction - you don't know everything, get coaching
40+ hours a week - you gotta put in the time the pros put in
Sacrifice - be willing to give up other things
It's tough, but you have a good attitude, good hand-eye cordination, and you are not afraid to win.....IMHO, you can do whatever you want, but you gotta be willing to do all the above and more to get there...
As long as you still have your eyesight and faculties, you can make pro with the following:
Faith - you gotta KNOW you can do it
Determination - you go two and out, you don't leave - you stay, work on your game the rest of the night..
Tournaments - play as many as you possibly can
Competition - play tougher players as often as possible
Games - learn them all, many skills carry over and can take you to the next level
Be a student - always learning, always reading, always watching, always paying attention
Take direction - you don't know everything, get coaching
40+ hours a week - you gotta put in the time the pros put in
Sacrifice - be willing to give up other things
It's tough, but you have a good attitude, good hand-eye cordination, and you are not afraid to win.....IMHO, you can do whatever you want, but you gotta be willing to do all the above and more to get there...
hi
agreed .
thing is all these guys who call themselves master instructors kinda bugs me.
if i go out and say im a master mechanic and charge people big money to fix their cars,they are gonna be hot when they find out ive only worked on lawnmowers.
you are a good instructor and i dont know if you call yourself a master instructor or not.
problem is 99 percent of the guys out their milking people for big money are calling themselves master instructors.
many of these masters are nice guys,good players etc but they are not masters at anything involving pool and they know it.
im sorry if i singled you out but if any of these so called masters would like to take a may we call it pool i.q. test im game.
then people can decide who are actually master instructors and who they want to pay 1000 for a 3 day lesson too. again what im saying is not directed totally at you.
agreed .
thing is all these guys who call themselves master instructors kinda bugs me.
if i go out and say im a master mechanic and charge people big money to fix their cars,they are gonna be hot when they find out ive only worked on lawnmowers.
you are a good instructor and i dont know if you call yourself a master instructor or not.
problem is 99 percent of the guys out their milking people for big money are calling themselves master instructors.
many of these masters are nice guys,good players etc but they are not masters at anything involving pool and they know it.
im sorry if i singled you out but if any of these so called masters would like to take a may we call it pool i.q. test im game.
then people can decide who are actually master instructors and who they want to pay 1000 for a 3 day lesson too. again what im saying is not directed totally at you.
I would be the last to disagree with your thinking Jude. I firmly believe that life is not over until the fat lady sings and life means taking chances, being involved and committed to an idea. Life is to be lived.
I am also realistic and think that too is a good way to live, though we all define reality diffeently ! (My definition includes a 650cc motorcycle that my children see somewhat differently)
I would think that beginning a pool career at 29 with the intent to be a professional is plausible and probably nearing the edge of when one could expect to become a professional player as we generally understand that term. I agree that there are all sorts of exceptions to the statistical norms (that is one of the resons we use statistics). However, the anomalies will probably stand out early in their career (at whatever age).
I am also realistic and think that too is a good way to live, though we all define reality diffeently ! (My definition includes a 650cc motorcycle that my children see somewhat differently)
I would think that beginning a pool career at 29 with the intent to be a professional is plausible and probably nearing the edge of when one could expect to become a professional player as we generally understand that term. I agree that there are all sorts of exceptions to the statistical norms (that is one of the resons we use statistics). However, the anomalies will probably stand out early in their career (at whatever age).
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I think that John makes a good point but as with most things in life there are several caveats. There are not enough instructors to go around. Not all players can instruct. Not all instructors can play.
Unfortunately there is no regulatory body that has set up widely accepted standards for how to define "master" or ""player." So the average Joe has to be aware of the idea that hype is part of our society.
Unfortunately there is no regulatory body that has set up widely accepted standards for how to define "master" or ""player." So the average Joe has to be aware of the idea that hype is part of our society.
While it may not be widely accepted, the most widely recognized program is the BCA instructors program. They do have specific requirements to reach the various levels, from recognized, certified, advanced and master. The last time I checked, there were only about 10 master instructors in the program. I think, while it certainly isn't a comprehensive list (there are some very good instructors such as Blackjack who are not in the BCA program) it is the best we have, and it's actually a pretty darn good way for anyone to find a good qualified instructor.
As with anything, I encourage any student to do a little homework. Ask around. Ask any instructor for references. Former students will give you a pretty good idea if you are making the right choice.
Steve
As with anything, I encourage any student to do a little homework. Ask around. Ask any instructor for references. Former students will give you a pretty good idea if you are making the right choice.
Steve
Hi Chase, My name is Gene Albrecht. You probably don't know me but your question kind of caught my eye. In the 80's and 90's I won a bunch of tournaments.I had become diabetic in around 1990 but didn't know that was why I was tired and sick all the time. I played in the US open in 1999 and beat everyone the first 2 days. That night from stress and smoke and everything else I really had a bad diabetes night with no sleep and the next day felt like I had been on a 3 day bender. I had it. I quit. I really didn't even have the energy to try to go to any tournaments. Then in around 2006 I started trying to play again. I was living in the Kansas City area. I was sicker than ever with diabetes and still didn't know what was wrong. In 2008 I remembered something that I forgot. I had this thing that I did when I aimed and when I started playing this time I had plum forgot to do this. I literally had been getting dirt kicked in my face at every tournament and couldn't win one. Very frustrating. And this was one of the things that really made the game easier and made me such a force in the earlier years. So I started doing this aiming thing that I did and then I started showing people also. Finally I realised that nobody did this aiming thing like I did. The people that I showed got playing real good real fast. Now I was winning a tournment here and one there but I was getting in even worse shape by not knowing it was diabetic. Braces on both knees, short of breath,all my joints ached but I was still trying to play. Finally my health got so bad I moved back to wis. to live with my son. I thought I was going to die and it seemed like the doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong. Then in Jan 2009 i was dianosed with diabetes. Lost 60 lbs and got some meds to take for it. Right away I started winning almost everything again. I was working even harder at trying to perfect this aiming thing I did. Then it dawned on me. Why not make a video . That way when I teach someone this aiming thing they would have backup for what they learned. This way they would never forget it like I did. The rest is history. I went to Vegas to promote the video and give lessons and ended up winning the ACS American Cue Sports National 8-Ball tournament in early June. I continued my journey to Phoenix to give more lessons and ended up winning the Desert Classic Tour 9-Ball tournament. I know people were wondering how I was doing this but the people I gave the PERFECT AIM lesson to in Phoenix, they knew. The guy that took second was Frank. The guy I gave the first PERFECT AIM lesson to when I first got to Phoenix. He is rated a 9. He's not even supposed to have a chance. Needless to say they raised his rating up the next day. Then my brother talked to me about putting the video on the internet and soon it became one of the hottest videos on the market. You can go to www.perfectainbilliards.com and see all the amazing testimonials.
At 57 years young I thought I was too old. But now I realise that as we age our eye and hand coordination is not what it used to be. And that is what pool is all about. Your eyes really tell you what's going on. I have showed this to people that have never hardly picked up a cue and they are shooting balls in really good right away. One was my brother Gary. He was really surprised at how easy it was to see the shot. He said wow. It looks like I can't miss it. Gary is yonger than me by one year. Your probably younger than me but I'm telling you have to check this out. If you have any questions feel free to call me. Just trying to help. 715-563-8712 Geno..Have a great day:thumbup:
PS I know this will help you tremendously. No matter what level you are at. From beginner to pro.
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You've been playing snooker all your life so it doesnt count. But i'd still say it'll be hard to be a pro in 6 months. Good luck though.
so were you really a psychotherapist? what was that like? you know I know a few therapists personally. Actually, I read a lot of stuff on gestalt and holistic stuff in my spare time and probably would be better off switching my concentration to something in that area. So do you think you did the right thing, or wish you had been a monk instead?
i know jd, snooker will help me a lot, im goin america in 3 weeks with my sponsors to play 8 hours a day like i did when i played snooker and i will make it, thanks for the support.
Yes I was a clinician for over 25 years to make money. My real love was science and doing research. Would I go back and change it -- the short answer is no. I like pool very much but my first love was always in the sciences. Playing pool would not have offerred the same rewards. But to each his own.
BTW if I could have been more religious I probably would have been a monk but discovering women changed all that -- and I am glad I found them.
I can say it now but would not have said it when I practiced. Therapy is boring. After a few sessions the clinician knows the outcome (usually) and then it is a matter of waiting for the patient / client to realize what they need to do.
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lmao!!! john your a smart ass but i love ya man hahaha...
John...Thank you. I will agree that there are certainly some teachers who either just "claim" to be master instructors, but don't know their stuff. On the other hand, there are several BCA Certified Master Instructors, who are incredibly savvy on everything pool...including playing at a very high level. Randyg is one of several, but probably the smartest one of the bunch. I try to spend as much time with him as I can, and I learn a LOT every time I'm around him...either playing against him, or observing/teaching with him. I can easily name at least another half dozen to a dozen teachers with the same kind of credentials. Some are BCA Certified...some are not. They are all, imo, master instructors, who know exactly what they're talking about. You definitely have to separate the wheat from the chaff...which is sometimes not that easy. 
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
posted by driz86: "Playing pocket billiards is not about gambling. It's about competitive spirit, a desire for excellence, and paying me $75/hr. or $500/day!"
-Scott Lee
Love the tagline! You almost got it right! The last line is "it's about having fun!" It's not about the money...and every student who has worked with me knows that. That said, it's true...I GET those rates over and over and over. Either I'm doing something right, to help players to improve, or I've got the biggest hypnotic trance game going out there! LMAO Mr. Schmidt and I are on the same page. It's you who are obviously out of touch, sir!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
-Scott Lee
Love the tagline! You almost got it right! The last line is "it's about having fun!" It's not about the money...and every student who has worked with me knows that. That said, it's true...I GET those rates over and over and over. Either I'm doing something right, to help players to improve, or I've got the biggest hypnotic trance game going out there! LMAO Mr. Schmidt and I are on the same page. It's you who are obviously out of touch, sir!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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John...Thank you. I will agree that there are certainly some teachers who either just "claim" to be master instructors, but don't know their stuff. On the other hand, there are several BCA Certified Master Instructors, who are incredibly savvy on everything pool...including playing at a very high level. Randyg is one of several, but probably the smartest one of the bunch. I try to spend as much time with him as I can, and I learn a LOT every time I'm around him...either playing against him, or observing/teaching with him. I can easily name at least another half dozen to a dozen teachers with the same kind of credentials. Some are BCA Certified...some are not. They are all, imo, master instructors, who know exactly what they're talking about. You definitely have to separate the wheat from the chaff...which is sometimes not that easy.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
So who should people avoid when looking for instruction?
there were a few things i liked and didn't like about the lessons i've taken. i didn't like that there seemed to be 1 way that was accepted as the "right" way to shoot shots
JoeW...I have to disagree with you. There are PLENTY of older professionals, who have the skills to still play at a pro level. The sad truth is, most of them are broke and can't afford to travel around (they didn't have 'legit', well-paying jobs, like you did). When Miz had the senior tour, there were a lot of older guys who made the trek to play...many dozen.
As far as your comment about Hopkins, Rempe and Varner...Rempe is retired (still does a few private lessons in Scranton)...Hopkins still plays in some events, but the majority of his time is tied up with the annual SBE, and other tv events he does with Matt Braun...Varner still competes in almost all the big tournaments, all over the country; plus he's doing lots of exhibitions with Archer. Of the three, Varner is completely active, as a pro player (and he's the oldest of the three too!). There are others also...
Finally, YOU may feel aged at 40, but that would be an anamoly. Most 40 yr olds are very active, and living life well! 40 is young to me...75 is aged. It's more about how you feel, than a particular number that applies to your physical age, imo.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
As far as your comment about Hopkins, Rempe and Varner...Rempe is retired (still does a few private lessons in Scranton)...Hopkins still plays in some events, but the majority of his time is tied up with the annual SBE, and other tv events he does with Matt Braun...Varner still competes in almost all the big tournaments, all over the country; plus he's doing lots of exhibitions with Archer. Of the three, Varner is completely active, as a pro player (and he's the oldest of the three too!). There are others also...
Finally, YOU may feel aged at 40, but that would be an anamoly. Most 40 yr olds are very active, and living life well! 40 is young to me...75 is aged. It's more about how you feel, than a particular number that applies to your physical age, imo.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com