How late of an age can you start pool and ascend to short-stop or pro level?

Sam...In the lessons you took, did all the teachers suggest the same way "to shoot shots"?...or did each teacher have their own, 'different' way? How many teachers have you taken lessons from (one, I definitely know of...:D). I never suggested to you, that there is only one way. There are lots of ways...some are easier to master than others. It's up to the individual to pick the one that works best for them. Sometimes it's a mixture of several things, that works best...sometimes just one. IMO, if you could successfully shoot 99% of your shots (including the break), using the exact same stance, grip, bridges, swing, and timing...why wouldn't somebody want to learn how to do that? However, that's why it always comes down to choices...different strokes for different folks! :D SPF is still the bomb!

As far as your first question...that's not so easy. A lot depends on the communication skills of the instructor. A lot depends on how well the instructor can observe, analyze, and demonstrate good techniques. Lastly, I would look for someone that I got along with well (you'll know this inside of an hour spent with that person)! I wouldn't want to pay money to somebody I thought was a jerk! LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

poolplayer2093 said:
So who should people avoid when looking for instruction?

there were a few things i liked and didn't like about the lessons i've taken. i didn't like that there seemed to be 1 way that was accepted as the "right" way to shoot shots
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Scott Lee said:
Sam...In the lessons you took, did all the teachers suggest the same way "to shoot shots"?...or did each teacher have their own, 'different' way? How many teachers have you taken lessons from (one, I definitely know of...:D). I never suggested to you, that there is only one way. There are lots of ways...some are easier to master than others. It's up to the individual to pick the one that works best for them. Sometimes it's a mixture of several things, that works best...sometimes just one. IMO, if you could successfully shoot 99% of your shots (including the break), using the exact same stance, grip, bridges, swing, and timing...why wouldn't somebody want to learn how to do that? However, that's why it always comes down to choices...different strokes for different folks! :D SPF is still the bomb!

As far as your first question...that's not so easy. A lot depends on the communication skills of the instructor. A lot depends on how well the instructor can observe, analyze, and demonstrate good techniques. Lastly, I would look for someone that I got along with well (you'll know this inside of an hour spent with that person)! I wouldn't want to pay money to somebody I thought was a jerk! LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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man i knew i should have put a lol behind that first question. it was supposed to be a joke (guess i'm not as funny as i thought)

i've taken 3 lessons total. 1 focused on fundamentals and the other 2 focused on patterns and positional shots
 
Gene...You accidentally got a typo in the website address, which caused the link not to work. It should be www.perfectaimbilliards.com. Those are some great testamonials! I hope to run into you somewhere around the country!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

genomachino said:
Then my brother talked to me about putting the video on the internet and soon it became one of the hottest videos on the market. You can go to www.perfectainbilliards.com and see all the amazing testimonials.
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Sam...I knew it was tongue-in-cheek! :D However, it's a serious question, as many people don't know how to figure out if an instructor is worth it or not. The important thing is that you're playing better now, than you were a few years ago...and I believe you'll continue to improve!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

poolplayer2093 said:
man i knew i should have put a lol behind that first question. it was supposed to be a joke (guess i'm not as funny as i thought)

i've taken 3 lessons total. 1 focused on fundamentals and the other 2 focused on patterns and positional shots
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Scott Lee said:
Sam...I knew it was tongue-in-cheek! :D However, it's a serious question, as many people don't know how to figure out if an instructor is worth it or not. The important thing is that you're playing better now, than you were a few years ago...and I believe you'll continue to improve!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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When're you coming to nor cal again? i have a friend of mine that i think could use your help. i've been showing him a few things but his fundamentals need some work. i think having a video of himself and taking some lessons would really help him out
 
As long as you can keep your arm steady (free of shakes) and concentrate for long periods of time you should, in theory, be able to learn to play at a professional level assuming your hand-eye co-ordination is up to par.

The two biggest hurdles for late starters is time and self-belief. Kids have far more free time to dedicate to their favorite activities with school being only 6 hours (and I used to think that was long, lol). By the age of 20 people are either working full time jobs, sometimes more than one, and/or going through school. They just aren't able to dedicate 20-40 hours per week to playing. Most of their friends probably aren't pool players either when they get in to it, so they would also need blow them off in order to practice long hours. Don't get me started on dating.

The other problem I see amongst adults learning new activities, is they put mental limitations on themselves. I know a lot of people starting out who would just be happy to reach a B level, and would be over the moon at A level. Kids on the other hand tend to have loftier goals. Just about every boy in the junior hockey leagues dreams of playing in the NHL . But how many pool leaguers believe they can ever be better than B level player. It also doesn't help that newbies get laughed at when they say they want to play professionally some day.

There are of course other factors. For instance many people waste years practicing improperly. It drives me crazy to hear people complain about not improving, but they have never made a single adjustment to their mechanics or routine in the time I've seen them play.
 
I'm putting together a 3-day pool school somewhere around the Bay Area for the fall. Your friend could attend that, or I'd be happy to work with him/her privately.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

poolplayer2093 said:
When're you coming to nor cal again? i have a friend of mine that i think could use your help. i've been showing him a few things but his fundamentals need some work. i think having a video of himself and taking some lessons would really help him out
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Cameron...Boy you hit the nail on the head there! :thumbup: I've seen people like you describe, play for 50 years, and never get significant improvement. On the other hand, I've also seen people, who, with some good instruction, and disciplined practice, improve one or two skill levels in short order (months, not years).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Cameron Smith said:
For instance many people waste years practicing improperly. It drives me crazy to hear people complain about not improving, but they have never made a single adjustment to their mechanics or routine in the time I've seen them play.
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Just a clarification of my previous post by request; several have misunderstood, or chosen to misinterpret.

My position was that "(an) older person with a day job can take up the game late and learn to play pool at a low professional level." I am talking about skill level, not income (there is no easy big money in pool).

I did not say that the geezer taking the game up at 50 (like me) could beat Efren next year.

I did not say that the geezer will be making 200K a year at pool (very few can even make a living at this game).

I did say that a novice player can get to low professional level (think Ed Hodan, Brandon Shuff, Landon Shuffett, Marty Ciccia, Mark Vidal - or players not even quite as good as them). Many players have progressed to that level in less than 10 years; I don't believe it matters what age they begin (though youth is a HUGE advantage).

We are in a situation analogous to golf 50 years ago. Many professionals had odd and unorthodox swings because of lack of quality instruction. The odd swing is very rare now; because as the popularity of the game rose; so did the number and quality of the instructors - no one could argue that the "cookiecutter" swing so prevalent today is not the quickest way to develop a great game.

The orthodox principles and methods espoused by the great pool instructors similarly can lead to a high level of proficiency, but NOT middle or high pro level play - you need to give up your day job to get there (you are NOT going to beat John Schmidt unless you have a similar level of dedication and time to commit - I don't see ANYONE with a day job getting there, though there are some that need a day job AFTER they get there, sad to say). JMO
 
jayz said:
In the early 70's, I was fortunate to have an opportunity to spend five weeks on the road throughout the state of Florida with a top player from Hawaii. He won everytime he played, almost everyday, with some all night sessions. After hours of play, his opponent would finally miss a ball. And then another. And hours later you would see a shell of the player that started the match. My player had the stronger mental will.
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And how iz Brian :thumbup::p:smile:

Brian
 
hi

Williebetmore said:
Just a clarification of my previous post by request; several have misunderstood, or chosen to misinterpret.

My position was that "(an) older person with a day job can take up the game late and learn to play pool at a low professional level." I am talking about skill level, not income (there is no easy big money in pool).

I did not say that the geezer taking the game up at 50 (like me) could beat Efren next year.

I did not say that the geezer will be making 200K a year at pool (very few can even make a living at this game).

I did say that a novice player can get to low professional level (think Ed Hodan, Brandon Shuff, Landon Shuffett, Marty Ciccia, Mark Vidal - or players not even quite as good as them). Many players have progressed to that level in less than 10 years; I don't believe it matters what age they begin (though youth is a HUGE advantage).

We are in a situation analogous to golf 50 years ago. Many professionals had odd and unorthodox swings because of lack of quality instruction. The odd swing is very rare now; because as the popularity of the game rose; so did the number and quality of the instructors - no one could argue that the "cookiecutter" swing so prevalent today is not the quickest way to develop a great game.

The orthodox principles and methods espoused by the great pool instructors similarly can lead to a high level of proficiency, but NOT middle or high pro level play - you need to give up your day job to get there (you are NOT going to beat John Schmidt unless you have a similar level of dedication and time to commit - I don't see ANYONE with a day job getting there, though there are some that need a day job AFTER they get there, sad to say). JMO
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exactly .
funny thing is i didnt grow up in a poolroom or start playing at 5 years old.

i had full time jobs ,many of them up till 22 years old and still made it.

everybody always saying to play like the pros quit your job like thats automatically going to make you great.

heres the deal to all the people who think if i didnt work everyday i would play like johnny archer.

archer doesnt play good because he has no job,he has no job because he play so good.

i going to give people the most valuable advice ever,because most believe natural ability has little to do with being a pro at pool or any other sport.

just quit your job and take up golf,or baseball . you get to play everyday now because you have no job you should guaranteed make it to the pga tour.
or the major leagues.

pool has no money in it just take up golf and if you get to play everyday you will be on pga tour no problem.probably you will play like tiger.lol



im not directing this at anyone ,just seems like i hear that alot from somebody who says if i played as much as you i would beat you.

this is always from some guy who has table at home,takes lessons,has every accustat known to man ,and plays 4 hours a day and is a b player.

i got a news flash for that guy the guys on pga tour practiced as much as
jack,tiger,and phil at golf ,they just dont have it between the ears or physically or both.their awesome but those other 3 have more natural talent.
also the pro poolplayers practiced as much as archer but 99 percent of the propoolplayers cant win like him.
its called natural ability.

everybody knows that one guy growing up who was great at every sport he played.thats called natural ability .
anybody can be good at pool,golf but to be one of the top 20-30 players in world requires alot more than just playing everyday . millions play everyday and every tourney is still the same 30 winning.
 
john schmidt said:
exactly .
funny thing is i didnt grow up in a poolroom or start playing at 5 years old.

i had full time jobs ,many of them up till 22 years old and still made it.

everybody always saying to play like the pros quit your job like thats automatically going to make you great.

heres the deal to all the people who think if i didnt work everyday i would play like johnny archer.

archer doesnt play good because he has no job,he has no job because he play so good.

i going to give people the most valuable advice ever,because most believe natural ability has little to do with being a pro at pool or any other sport.

just quit your job and take up golf,or baseball . you get to play everyday now because you have no job you should guaranteed make it to the pga tour.
or the major leagues.

pool has no money in it just take up golf and if you get to play everyday you will be on pga tour no problem.probably you will play like tiger.lol



im not directing this at anyone ,just seems like i hear that alot from somebody who says if i played as much as you i would beat you.

this is always from some guy who has table at home,takes lessons,has every accustat known to man ,and plays 4 hours a day and is a b player.

i got a news flash for that guy the guys on pga tour practiced as much as
jack,tiger,and phil at golf ,they just dont have it between the ears or physically or both.their awesome but those other 3 have more natural talent.
also the pro poolplayers practiced as much as archer but 99 percent of the propoolplayers cant win like him.
its called natural ability.

everybody knows that one guy growing up who was great at every sport he played.thats called natural ability .
anybody can be good at pool,golf but to be one of the top 20-30 players in world requires alot more than just playing everyday . millions play everyday and every tourney is still the same 30 winning.
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John, you make some good points. But you constantly seem to equate being a pro as being in the elite top of the pros. That's where I disagree with you. Look at your golf tournaments- there are hundreds getting paid in the big events. A lot of them are making good money. Yet, they are not household names. But, they are still pros. They just aren't the top pros.

If you only want to equate the top 20 or so in the world as pros, you won't have much for pro tournaments.;)
 
john schmidt said:
heres the deal to all the people who think if i didnt work everyday i would play like johnny archer.

archer doesnt play good because he has no job,he has no job because he play so good.
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Great post, John.

I just want to comment on some of the things that have been touched upon in this thread.

I appreciate the comments people have made about my instruction, and the way that I pass long my knowledge. I only want to clarify one thing -

There is no comparison between what I can teach you, and what someone like John Schmidt can teach you.

A few years ago, I was planning a 14.1 Clinic at Derby City. John decided to do the same thing - and I immediately canceled my clinic out of respect for John Schmidt.

When John found out about that, he apologized to me. (he honestly didn't know I was planning to do a clinic at DCC - lol) I told john, that if I was a pool player in search of knowledge, I would rather listen to a man that has a 403 ball run and a US Open 9 ball Championship than some guy that can't get past the 2nd round of a pro tournament.

Hey, that's reality.

In other words, I have the knowledge, and I have the ability to play a "good game" - but nowhere near John's level.

John possesses the ability to play AND TO TEACH at a much higher level than myself, and most other humans. I have a lot of respect for that. I will always honor that.

Now, to the question about how late of an age can you start and ascend to pro level status.

Everybody is different. Some people are sponges. They learn quickly. Some people have A LOT of natural ability, but surround themselves with the wrong people.

It's a combination of a lot of factors - and the best way i can describe it - is to ask John this question -

If you only had your natural ability, and you never met Bobby Hunter - and his influence was erased from all areas of your game and your life - would you have gotten as far as you have?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pretending that I know the answer to that question - I just believe that our influences, as well as the people we allow into our world - has a great effect on who you become as a player and a person. I believe it also shapes your development more than people give it credit for. I Would just be interested in your take on that angle, John, because I think that is what a lot of people don't take into consideration.

Jennifer has eclipsed everybody's expectations because she is a great competitor - a warrior - and she always strives to get better at whatever she does. That can't be taught. It's one of those X factors. You either have it or you don't.
 
There are also several 'road players' that never play in tournaments and stay under the radar that could rob the top pros in money games. One of them even has a job delivering pizza.:p
 
no

Darth said:
There are also several 'road players' that never play in tournaments and stay under the radar that could rob the top pros in money games. One of them even has a job delivering pizza.:p
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he might rob lower tier pros but hes not gonna rob the top pros,i know your talking about stephenson
 
hi

Blackjack said:
Great post, John.

I just want to comment on some of the things that have been touched upon in this thread.

I appreciate the comments people have made about my instruction, and the way that I pass long my knowledge. I only want to clarify one thing -

There is no comparison between what I can teach you, and what someone like John Schmidt can teach you.

A few years ago, I was planning a 14.1 Clinic at Derby City. John decided to do the same thing - and I immediately canceled my clinic out of respect for John Schmidt.

When John found out about that, he apologized to me. (he honestly didn't know I was planning to do a clinic at DCC - lol) I told john, that if I was a pool player in search of knowledge, I would rather listen to a man that has a 403 ball run and a US Open 9 ball Championship than some guy that can't get past the 2nd round of a pro tournament.

Hey, that's reality.

In other words, I have the knowledge, and I have the ability to play a "good game" - but nowhere near John's level.

John possesses the ability to play AND TO TEACH at a much higher level than myself, and most other humans. I have a lot of respect for that. I will always honor that.

Now, to the question about how late of an age can you start and ascend to pro level status.

Everybody is different. Some people are sponges. They learn quickly. Some people have A LOT of natural ability, but surround themselves with the wrong people.

It's a combination of a lot of factors - and the best way i can describe it - is to ask John this question -

If you only had your natural ability, and you never met Bobby Hunter - and his influence was erased from all areas of your game and your life - would you have gotten as far as you have?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pretending that I know the answer to that question - I just believe that our influences, as well as the people we allow into our world - has a great effect on who you become as a player and a person. I believe it also shapes your development more than people give it credit for. I Would just be interested in your take on that angle, John, because I think that is what a lot of people don't take into consideration.

Jennifer has eclipsed everybody's expectations because she is a great competitor - a warrior - and she always strives to get better at whatever she does. That can't be taught. It's one of those X factors. You either have it or you don't.
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i agree completely .
i think bobby would be the first to admit i learned 99 percent of my early pool stuff on my own. we were not friends at all in the beginning.

he had more impact on how i dressed,talked,and carried myself.yes who you play and surround yourself with is important.

and for the record i think you are completely qualified to teach pool with the same confidence and authority that a top player would.because you are a great player yourself and have proven you know what your talking about.
 
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