If there was a saver of note, one was with a countryman of Efren's on the TV table. It felt a little peculiar to me sitting table side, but I am not sure. A long lonnngggg standing person in pool was 100% convinced of it.
How many of you think someone in the final 4 of the US Open would dump?
- Thread starter CreeDo
- Start date
Over in auto racing we have the phenomonom of the "red mist". The red mist is what ahppens to a driver in a competitive even that makes them bear down more, try harder, invent new ways of getting an advantage,... that the opposite of a "dump" is more likely to happen that the dump taking place--even if the driver though about dumping beforehand!
Once you get into the competition the red mist rises over your eyes and all you can think about is how to win, advance, {crush kill destroy,...}.
Once you get into the competition the red mist rises over your eyes and all you can think about is how to win, advance, {crush kill destroy,...}.
I agree and I'll take it a step further. I believe that's why a guy like Earl is disliked by a lot of players. He is a threat to go deep in any tournament he enters and he might not play games with the prize money.
What is the most recent concrete example of a pool pro dumping and subsequently being busted for it? (undisputed example please - not talking about controversial situations - I'm talking about definite black & white situation where a penalty was imposed and/or criminal charges brought)
Are you out of your mind?
Um, well, that's not the best question to ask someone whom you suspect of being out their mind. ...If they are out their mind then self-assessment is probably not going to be their strong point. :wink:
Perhaps it varies country-to-country, but certainly in some places cheating bookies by throwing a supposedly competitive game is considered fraud.
How quickly people forget Buddy Hall and Mike LeBron in the Challenge of Champions.
$50k winner takes all didn't stop anyone from dumping their brains out, now did it.
If there was a naive "book" at the U.S. Open taking bets on matches and changing the line every time each line filled up with bets, i can totally see a "saver" being made, and then the players figuring out how to snap off the book by having friends pumping it up with bets. There are plenty of people who have watched this scenario unfold at different tournaments
That's not to say that this happens all the time, cause it doesn't.
But if the conditions are right, there are plenty of professional pool players whose integrity would go right out the window at the prospect of maximizing their guaranteed profits...
Seriously.
How do the Vegas bookies view pool tournaments?
Oh...right.
Nuff said.
It's true that some people would and some wouldn't, that's sort of a given.
I guess what I'm asking specifically is... regardless of their character or their love of money, would someone with that much talent throw it when they're within spitting distance of both a large sum of cash and one of the most prestigious titles?
I have a hard time imagining it. To me, the 100 or so guys who made it to the final four are hardcore competitors with the kind of big ego that you'd expect from being one of the best in the world. Even if they already had a US Open title, they wouldn't go that far and then just pass up another one.
As far as I know, it's never gotten as far as the law. And there really aren't NBA- or NFL-style financial penalties in pool. You can't dock money from a pro pool player, it's like cruelty to animals.
If and when it happens, it'd be very very hard to detect. Dumping and Dogging It often look the exact same, and in a high pressure tournament, there's plenty of the latter.
I felt the same......
Hey thanks for the info.
Has it ever gotten as far as someone confessing to it?
Maybe privately to friends, but publicly? I have yet to hear of it. In snooker they caught a guy arranging a dump with people posing as a russian gambling syndicate. He played it off the only way he really could, by claiming he went along because he was fearing for his life.
Maybe someone involved in the 1988 US Open will have something to say on his deathbed. But probably not.
If there's a "sliding scale" of integrity, there must be a very narrow, specific spot for people who are shameless enough to dump, but have enough shame to admit it later.
Dump or a chop?
I think you're on to something, Chris. The scenario would go like this:
- You and I are friends
- We enter a major tournament
- We agree to split the winnings
- We both end up meeting each other in the quarter-finals or semi-finals
- I decide you have the best chance to win the event, so I "dump"
So ya see Chris, it's entirely possible - except for the part about you and I being friends. :smile:
Ohhhh .................... I'm just kidding.
I think you're on to something, Chris. The scenario would go like this:
- You and I are friends
- We enter a major tournament
- We agree to split the winnings
- We both end up meeting each other in the quarter-finals or semi-finals
- I decide you have the best chance to win the event, so I "dump"
So ya see Chris, it's entirely possible - except for the part about you and I being friends. :smile:
Ohhhh .................... I'm just kidding.
There have been other threads about this. IIRC, all players knew about the 'dump'. And to his credit, Earl Strickland, who was supposed to play, would not go along with it and dropped out of the tournamnet rather than partipate in this debacle.
Here are links to a couple of old threads about it. The players that participated were Sigel, Hall, Rempe, Varner, Hopkins, Howard, Davenport, and Lebron.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=255768&highlight=1991+challenge+champions
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=238417&highlight=1991+challenge+champions
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So instead of playing for a $1, we would be playing for 50 cents.
If you think I play good for $1, you should see me play for 50 cents!
Ah yes, John Higgins. Having seen the video (filmed from a hidden camera), I can say that either he's better at hiding fear than anyone else I've ever seen, or he's simply a greedy cheating little toad.
He really should have been banned for life.
Receiving a six month ban (basically a slap on the wrist) after the investigation found that he "had failed to report, and given the impression of agreeing with, an invitation to breach the sport's betting rules" was sickening to anyone who cares about snooker or about fairness in general.
Snooker fans really should have booed him out of every arena in the world after that.
Maybe I misunderstand the human nature and psychology of a true competitor based on my life experience. Title on the line = no dump or intentional loss. Money comes, money goes. It means nothing in the long term, IMHO.
Saver or chop for immediate financial reasons by some players = in the realm of possibility.
My nickels worth...
~Razor
Saver or chop for immediate financial reasons by some players = in the realm of possibility.
My nickels worth...
~Razor
