How Many Players For Qualifiers?
- Thread starter spw62
- Start date
T
Timberly
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There is a very large number of people that do that for a myriad of reasons. It's an option provided by the admin and certainly not against the rules so why would you act as if this is a bad thing?spw62 said:Why do you sit on this forum in hidden mode when your realy online?
spw62 said:
OK. You got me. I don't own a pool room. I'm a bum. I'm getting ready to cry. I feel very sorry for you. Did I forget anything?
What I do though is run about 20 tournament per year and everyone of them has added money. Everyone of them also pays well over 10-1 on the money for 1st place.
Maybe I shouldn't have been so sarcastic with you, but you keep touting your place as the place for the IPT qualifiers. Another, get something for nothing idea of yours. It makes me sick to my stomach that any pool room owner would come onto a billiard related forum and try to blow smoke up others asses by supporting the IPT and it's qualifier SCAM. Why put $2000 up for AIR. That is even worse odds than what you present. Have you no shame at all.
You have the nerve to suggest you are being treated like a whore? What do you call yourself doing by trying to coax people into these qualifiers. They are trying to qualify FOR HEAVENS SAKE for a tournament which doesn't even exist. Have you not read one single word in the last 2 months? The very peoople you are trying to support are crooks and liars. They are snakes in the grass.
How you feel about pool players I could really care less about because you could give a shit less about them. Every utterance from you has been about you and you only. What does someone owe you, for trying to put on a tournament?
When you go nuts and reply, you don't have to use bold types either. I see real well. That's the reason I play so much better than you.
ironman said:
You are a total fool I have not said any of those things.
I'm not trying to coax players into the IPT Qualifiers i was trying to tell them that its time to fend for themself and try to get this sport back on track. If you havent noticed My room is not on the list of any Qualifier events and I will never take another Event Unless KT fixes this Mess because i have alot of personal friends that have lost big bucks in all this mess.
You and Macguy are just twisting what i said all around i never said any bad things about the pool players I just stated a fact that if a pool room caters only to the pool players and not the bangers off the street that they will go under, i never said i dont like them I have met alot of great pool players and i give them the respect that they have earned.
Its people just like you two guys that give them a bad rep and you are most Likely a banger yourself and anyone that ran a pool room of there own will tell you the same,
Thats Reality Sir.
I never tryed to blow smoke I just put the info out there and if there are any players that want to start something new they have my number and I'm open for sugestions.
Thats all i expected from this thread not a bashing like this.
Thanks: Have a great day.
spw62 said:
Let me take this opportunity to thank Country Club Billiards for their support to the pool community.
Actually, one of the BEST -- and one of my personal favorites-- tournaments I had ever attended on the East Coast was right there in Chelmsford at Country Club. The staff at the pool room made everyone feel comfortable, and I can 't say enough good things about the menu, especially the salads and full-course meals, quite a refreshing change from the usual fried food items I see when on the road.
What a great little community Chelmsford is. The lodging facilities are plentiful and nice. I happened to take a liking to the Hawthorne Suites. The Town of Chelmsford is quaint, quite old-fashioned in its layout, but it is a comfortable environment to me, coming from a large metropolitan city like D.C.
Jose Parica and our other beloved Filipino players love Country Club Billiards, not only for the GREAT hospitality, EXCELLENT playing conditions, and SUPERB amenities, but there just happens to be a Filipino community right there in Chelmsford, offering many things that these players enjoy when away from home and on the road.
I think you mentioned the $1,000 entry fee off the cuff as an example. If you are seriously considering having a pool event for serious-minded pool players, number one, the players would welcome it with open arms. They like Country Club Billiards in Chelmsford. Number two, an entry fee of $300 to $500 would be more feasible, IMHO.
This is doable, and Country Club already enjoys a sterling reputation in the pocket billiards community. With the shortage of high-profile events on American soil, I know many players would welcome a tournament in Chelmsford, and you can count on me and mine sending you the entry fee immediately upon annoucement of such an event, if there will be one.
As an aside, it is true that league players, social shooters, and bar bangers make up the majority of the pool culture, and as such, it is they who keep a pool room's finances in the green. It is the exact same way down here in my neck of the woods. You are correct. As such, an event of this magnitude would sure be a welcome sight to a professional pool player's sore eyes.
So, for you to offer having an event at Country Club in Chelmsford, I, for one, do greatly appreciate it and hope you decide to follow through and not allow the negativity you experience on AzBilliards Discussion Forum change your mind. The majority of players who do compete professionally, the same ones who will play in a tournament at Country Club, do not even post on this forum, and for good reason as evidenced by SOME responses you received on this thread.
Please know that if you decide to follow through, it will be welcomed by players from around the world, but especially American pool players. Thank you for your post.
JAM
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Poolrooms and Tournaments
I have owned and operated four poolrooms over the course of the last thirty years, and have had some experience running tournaments. After reading (and re-reading) this thread I finally decided to offer my opinion.
I can definitely relate to Steven's spiel on the cost of doing business. There are many expenses involved in running a poolroom, not just rent and paying the help. Hidden costs include insurance, licenses, taxes etc. That being said, you can make a very nice living owning a large poolroom with a bar, video games and food. Very nice!
That is, if you operate it properly. I have seen many poolrooms thrive for decades and some fold within a few years. Often, it is more about how they are managed then anything else. Do people want to come in there or do they feel uncomfortable there. I can't tell you how many times I have seen room owners destroy their own business with bad customer relations. Personally, I have always felt that the customer was King. Without those people walking thru the doors I have no business.
It is true that in a successful poolroom, typically 80% of your business (or more) will come from non players. But that other 20% who are really into the game should not be ignored. They become your regulars who are there every day. They will buy memberships and populate your poolroom in the daytime when business is slow. I LIKE these serious players. I call them my bread and butter, the ones whose faces I can count on to see every day.
Yes, they are the ones looking for the best deal, and may spend little money besides their monthly membership fees. But they make the room look not so empty in the daytime, and more comfortable for a couple of strangers who do walk in. When people walk into an empty room, they will often turn around and leave.
Amateur leagues are great. They bring a lot of people into the room, who buy food and drinks. But, typically we only see them on league nights. And there is always a room owner cost to having these leagues. It's not all win-win for the room owner. Hopefully, some of the league players will come back in on off nights and patronize your establishment.
What about running a pro tournament, with added money. Like Steven said, this is almost always a losing proposition. So why have it? Number one, they can usually be run for the most part in the daytime on weekends, and not seriously impact your prime hours. Number two, and this is the big one to me, seeing the good players, often encourages younger players and those not so skilled to play more often and try to improve their games.
I have often found, that business picks up in the first few weeks AFTER a pro tournament. More players want to work on their games. More players, more regulars, this is a good thing. So to me, running tournaments is part of the cost of doing business. A promotion if you will. Not unlike inviting Mike Massey in to entertain the crowd. I don't make money if Mike comes to do a couple of shows, but there is a buzz for weeks afterwards.
To me, running a successful poolroom is all about constant promotion. Promote, promote, promote is my watchword. Advertising is one thing, but promotion is something else entirely. I have discovered that advertising (other than in the Yellow Pages) loses value over time, but promotions do not. Tournaments/promotions drive more business. And keep the interest level up. Even people who miss the tournament, hear the buzz about how good someone played, and it can pique their interest in playing more also.
So that is my two cents. Or maybe more like a nickel.
I have owned and operated four poolrooms over the course of the last thirty years, and have had some experience running tournaments. After reading (and re-reading) this thread I finally decided to offer my opinion.
I can definitely relate to Steven's spiel on the cost of doing business. There are many expenses involved in running a poolroom, not just rent and paying the help. Hidden costs include insurance, licenses, taxes etc. That being said, you can make a very nice living owning a large poolroom with a bar, video games and food. Very nice!
That is, if you operate it properly. I have seen many poolrooms thrive for decades and some fold within a few years. Often, it is more about how they are managed then anything else. Do people want to come in there or do they feel uncomfortable there. I can't tell you how many times I have seen room owners destroy their own business with bad customer relations. Personally, I have always felt that the customer was King. Without those people walking thru the doors I have no business.
It is true that in a successful poolroom, typically 80% of your business (or more) will come from non players. But that other 20% who are really into the game should not be ignored. They become your regulars who are there every day. They will buy memberships and populate your poolroom in the daytime when business is slow. I LIKE these serious players. I call them my bread and butter, the ones whose faces I can count on to see every day.
Yes, they are the ones looking for the best deal, and may spend little money besides their monthly membership fees. But they make the room look not so empty in the daytime, and more comfortable for a couple of strangers who do walk in. When people walk into an empty room, they will often turn around and leave.
Amateur leagues are great. They bring a lot of people into the room, who buy food and drinks. But, typically we only see them on league nights. And there is always a room owner cost to having these leagues. It's not all win-win for the room owner. Hopefully, some of the league players will come back in on off nights and patronize your establishment.
What about running a pro tournament, with added money. Like Steven said, this is almost always a losing proposition. So why have it? Number one, they can usually be run for the most part in the daytime on weekends, and not seriously impact your prime hours. Number two, and this is the big one to me, seeing the good players, often encourages younger players and those not so skilled to play more often and try to improve their games.
I have often found, that business picks up in the first few weeks AFTER a pro tournament. More players want to work on their games. More players, more regulars, this is a good thing. So to me, running tournaments is part of the cost of doing business. A promotion if you will. Not unlike inviting Mike Massey in to entertain the crowd. I don't make money if Mike comes to do a couple of shows, but there is a buzz for weeks afterwards.
To me, running a successful poolroom is all about constant promotion. Promote, promote, promote is my watchword. Advertising is one thing, but promotion is something else entirely. I have discovered that advertising (other than in the Yellow Pages) loses value over time, but promotions do not. Tournaments/promotions drive more business. And keep the interest level up. Even people who miss the tournament, hear the buzz about how good someone played, and it can pique their interest in playing more also.
So that is my two cents. Or maybe more like a nickel.
There is a pool room I am familiar with in Frederick, MD which has a fantastic cast of regulars. They are busy every single day of the year, and it is because they have a league night every single day of the year. They will not host pro tournaments, only handicapped and/or league events, and they are, quite frankly, not interested in hosting pro tournaments, for many of the reasons expressed in this thread by the representative of Country Club in Chelmsford.
Champions in Frederick, MD is a shining example of what constitutes a successful pool room in the year of 2006. Though they did host several IPT qualifiers, trying to give back to the pool community, I know they were somewhat disappointed at the turnout. I was disappointed as well, but it is a sad reality of today's American pool world, unlike the Philippines, overseas countries in Asia, and, yes, even the other side of the pond, the Britons.
Champions in Frederick, though, is successful, not only because of its location, right off a major interstate, but because it is a hot spot for singles, offering excellent cuisine, live music and dancing, TVs placed throughout for sports events (non-pool-related sports events). Yes, it has excellent playing conditions, but the success of this room doesn't come from the pool players' contributions. Gone are the days of billiard parlors. This is a sports bar, a singles spot, and actually the food is pretty good too.
What is very sad to me is that SOME -- not all -- American pool folk, the very ones who make up the American pool culture, are the very ones who keep bashing pool and its players, as exemplified by the American pool players being continually ostricized, ridiculed, and verbally sucker-punched on American pool forums -- or is it "fori"?
These American sucker-punchers blame the pool players for the demise of pool in the United States, the small dwindling lot of American players that still exist today. I think not. It ain't the pro players, who make up the smallest minority of this culture of doom. It is the American acceptance of pool as a sport.
Don't worry, Sucker-Punchers of America. Soon the existing lot of American pro players will become extinct; a rare breed, if you will, much like they are today. When professional pool is dead in the water, then you can look for another excuse as to why pool in these United States of America fails to be recognized as a sport.
If it ain't the pool room owners who continue to give back to the pool community and if it ain't the pool players who contine to expend monies to travel cross-country attending MULTIPLE events each month, who, or what, is left to blame? Billiards parlors have been replaced with sports bars in the 21st century. Gone are the days of glory when action was plentiful. AND soon there will be no more American pros -- existing or prospective -- willing to give it their all to compete.
Maybe then there will be peace and harmony within the American pool community.
JAM
Champions in Frederick, MD is a shining example of what constitutes a successful pool room in the year of 2006. Though they did host several IPT qualifiers, trying to give back to the pool community, I know they were somewhat disappointed at the turnout. I was disappointed as well, but it is a sad reality of today's American pool world, unlike the Philippines, overseas countries in Asia, and, yes, even the other side of the pond, the Britons.
Champions in Frederick, though, is successful, not only because of its location, right off a major interstate, but because it is a hot spot for singles, offering excellent cuisine, live music and dancing, TVs placed throughout for sports events (non-pool-related sports events). Yes, it has excellent playing conditions, but the success of this room doesn't come from the pool players' contributions. Gone are the days of billiard parlors. This is a sports bar, a singles spot, and actually the food is pretty good too.
What is very sad to me is that SOME -- not all -- American pool folk, the very ones who make up the American pool culture, are the very ones who keep bashing pool and its players, as exemplified by the American pool players being continually ostricized, ridiculed, and verbally sucker-punched on American pool forums -- or is it "fori"?
These American sucker-punchers blame the pool players for the demise of pool in the United States, the small dwindling lot of American players that still exist today. I think not. It ain't the pro players, who make up the smallest minority of this culture of doom. It is the American acceptance of pool as a sport.
Don't worry, Sucker-Punchers of America. Soon the existing lot of American pro players will become extinct; a rare breed, if you will, much like they are today. When professional pool is dead in the water, then you can look for another excuse as to why pool in these United States of America fails to be recognized as a sport.
If it ain't the pool room owners who continue to give back to the pool community and if it ain't the pool players who contine to expend monies to travel cross-country attending MULTIPLE events each month, who, or what, is left to blame? Billiards parlors have been replaced with sports bars in the 21st century. Gone are the days of glory when action was plentiful. AND soon there will be no more American pros -- existing or prospective -- willing to give it their all to compete.
Maybe then there will be peace and harmony within the American pool community.
JAM
As a former room owner…
Adding money is like donating to charity. You don’t make money, you usually end spending more then planned, but it makes you feel good because you’re putting back into the game you earn a living from!
Tournaments, Added Money, Player Sponsorship all comes out of the advertising budget. So does newspaper, radio, magazines, promo items, websites, yellow pages, etc.
Unless you’ve owned your own business and can read a financial statement you really have no right to comment on how others donate to the pool world.
After 30 years in the Billiard Business I still shake my head at all the Great Players that think they are God’s Gift To The Game and their mere presence in any room will ensure it’s success.
If that were true every Great Player needs only to open a room to enjoy the fruits of their talent.
If it were that easy all the Keyboard Genius’s in this forum would open rooms catering to the Best Players.
Pool is a Participant Sport that will survive if all the Great Players retired tomorrow!
The Great Players need to put their Great Minds together and figure out how to make it a Great Spectator Sport.
The Great Players are getting from the Game exactly what they put into it.
We All Get What We Give !
And… We All Get What We Deserve !
I wonder how many Great Pool Players gave some of their time FREE this weekend to Promote The Game.
I live in a City of over 1 million and there are some very good players here. I guarantee you that not a single one of them gave up anything free for the game this weekend!
Adding money is like donating to charity. You don’t make money, you usually end spending more then planned, but it makes you feel good because you’re putting back into the game you earn a living from!
Tournaments, Added Money, Player Sponsorship all comes out of the advertising budget. So does newspaper, radio, magazines, promo items, websites, yellow pages, etc.
Unless you’ve owned your own business and can read a financial statement you really have no right to comment on how others donate to the pool world.
After 30 years in the Billiard Business I still shake my head at all the Great Players that think they are God’s Gift To The Game and their mere presence in any room will ensure it’s success.
If that were true every Great Player needs only to open a room to enjoy the fruits of their talent.
If it were that easy all the Keyboard Genius’s in this forum would open rooms catering to the Best Players.
Pool is a Participant Sport that will survive if all the Great Players retired tomorrow!
The Great Players need to put their Great Minds together and figure out how to make it a Great Spectator Sport.
The Great Players are getting from the Game exactly what they put into it.
We All Get What We Give !
And… We All Get What We Deserve !
I wonder how many Great Pool Players gave some of their time FREE this weekend to Promote The Game.
I live in a City of over 1 million and there are some very good players here. I guarantee you that not a single one of them gave up anything free for the game this weekend!
As a Room Owner you sure get tired of hearing players asking for handouts. If these same players came into my room and starting promoting the game on their own time, they would never have to ask.. I would offer first. Not because the are Great at The Game but because They Are Great FOR the Game.
JC51534 said:
SOME of the great players referenced -- American players in particular -- have devoted their entire life to the game and "great spectator sport."
Because of the current climate in the American pool culture, GREAT players are leaving the game and "great spectator sport."
There are more amateurs, social shooters, league players, and bar bangers in America than there are GREAT professional players.
There are more billiard room proprietors in America than there are GREAT professional players.
GREAT professional players are in a Nowhere Man's Land in America.
Professional pool is a "rich man's high" in America.
JC51534 said:
I know of quite a few "Great Pool Players" who have donated their time FREE to promote the game. As far as this weekend, I do not know of any at the time of this writing.
JC51534 said:
As well, IMHO, I believe that American "Great Pool Players" are tired of hearing that they are asking for handouts. The statement is prejudicial in nature and should not encompass all "Great Pool Players."
There are some who do give back to the community, donating their time to charity events. There are some who do personally sign autographs for free, to include incurring the cost of mailing out over 300 8-1/2-by-11 photographs to fans, friends, and pool enthusiasts. There are some who enjoy teaching children the basic fundamentals of the game when at various events.
Not all American "Great Pool Players" are alike. Of course, they are a dwindling lot. Let the pool room owners and league players make all the money in the world because that is the way it is here in the States. Ninety-nine percent, as evidenced by many posts on this forum, could care less about the American "Great Pool Players."
The American "Great Pool Players" are hurting right now. Business-minded pool room owners can enjoy sweet success without the American "Great Pool Players, but to condemn American "Great Pool Players" in one swoop is wrong. To do so at this time is like kicking a bleeding dog when it is down, considering the current state of professional pool in America today.
JAM
JAM said:
Previous post by jimmyg:
"Although many will find your statements unpopular, and you do paint them with a very broad brush, it is still pretty difficult to find a reasonable argument against some of them."
Jam, after reading your statement, I re-read and edited my prior post by adding the words "some of".
JC51534's post WAS pretty harsh, and I did note that he painted all players with a too broad a brush. The use of the word "handout" IS extremely offensive, and certainly does not apply to all, or most professional pool players.
While I find it difficult to disagree with his entire position, thank you for finding some of the "reasonable" arguments to offset the parts that are not.
Jim
Get back to basics
I watched bowling today and saw some very exciting matches, something we don't see very often on TV with pool, including the ITP matches, which could be outstanding, but somehow they are not. I started playing pool when I was seven, and have always loved the game. I don't play very much becasue there are not any nice places in a small town that one would want to play. Let's get back to neighborhood competition, where kids can come and play and learn from their elders. I think the smoking and gambling aspect has almost killed the sport as far as bringing in new players and bowling has suffered as well. Who wants to go or send their kids into this kind of atmosphere?
I guess what I'm trying to say is make it a family affair where people can come and have fun. The only place I know like this is Country Retreat Family Billiards in Boone, NC, operated by Chris Aldridge. The nicest I've been in period. It's 7 hours away, so I can't go there very often.
I watched bowling today and saw some very exciting matches, something we don't see very often on TV with pool, including the ITP matches, which could be outstanding, but somehow they are not. I started playing pool when I was seven, and have always loved the game. I don't play very much becasue there are not any nice places in a small town that one would want to play. Let's get back to neighborhood competition, where kids can come and play and learn from their elders. I think the smoking and gambling aspect has almost killed the sport as far as bringing in new players and bowling has suffered as well. Who wants to go or send their kids into this kind of atmosphere?
I guess what I'm trying to say is make it a family affair where people can come and have fun. The only place I know like this is Country Retreat Family Billiards in Boone, NC, operated by Chris Aldridge. The nicest I've been in period. It's 7 hours away, so I can't go there very often.
JAM said:
My point is that the GREAT PLAYERS do not do enough to ensure their own success.
I agree that SOME GREAT PLAYERS do more then their share, but they are the minority.
What if all The Great Players instead of wandering around "Looking For Action" maybe took a course or two on owning & operating a small business. What if they then combined this new found knowledge with their love of pool and opened a business that:
Provides A Steady Income
Provides a Classroom To Teach & Promote The Game
Provides a setting to improve their own game
Provides the time to travel & play tournaments
Provides an oppourtunity to grow as a business person
That's what I'm Talking About!
If there was say 10 Players with rooms and an 11th came along looking for investors would he/she get help from the other 10???
This is the fountation pool and pool players need to grow the game.
Last time I checked there was no laws against Players owning rooms.
I wonder how much IPT money was reinvested in pool.
I wonder how much was left in the casinos.
I wonder how many rooms Efern Reyes owns?
I wonder how many rooms Earl owns?
I wonder how many Johnny owns?
I wonder what's holding so many players back from the obvious?
I wonder why I wonder so much.
I wonder how much was left in the casinos.
I wonder how many rooms Efern Reyes owns?
I wonder how many rooms Earl owns?
I wonder how many Johnny owns?
I wonder what's holding so many players back from the obvious?
I wonder why I wonder so much.
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Just to throw in some numbers, since I saw in a post that about 20 % of a pool halls income was from poolplayers/regulars:
I can thank the members of the local club at the poolhall for nothing more than 3 % of the total income for this month alone. 97 % is from non-members who just happen to walk in the door, and most of them do not even know the rules of the game.
If you then know that the local club is one of the top 3 clubs in Norway, both in amount of members and success, why should poolhall-owners give money back to them?
The only reason I can see is because of the love of the game, not for business-reasons!
I can thank the members of the local club at the poolhall for nothing more than 3 % of the total income for this month alone. 97 % is from non-members who just happen to walk in the door, and most of them do not even know the rules of the game.
If you then know that the local club is one of the top 3 clubs in Norway, both in amount of members and success, why should poolhall-owners give money back to them?
The only reason I can see is because of the love of the game, not for business-reasons!
JC51534 said:
My husband, a former pro player did just that. He became a manager of a chain of rooms, and then manager of the room that we own now. I am fortunate that he had the ability to bear down and put up with the 'grind' that he did for our future.
Chelmsford tournament
Jam
I live in Chelmsford and was at the tournament and feel that I probably saw the best of the IPT close up. The players were good-Breedlove etc and the fans were in a good mood. It did not draw a big crowd even though the greater Lowell area is very sports orientated - New England Golden Gloves, the Red Sox Farm team, the second busiest Brunswick bowling alley on the East Coast. (When the bowling allies got caught in the flood this year Brunswick went 24/7 to get it going again.)
Perhaps the IPT should have used its money trying to develop grass roots support in the smaller markets instead of the big splash in Reno. Perhaps it wanted too much too soon! I do not think a person watching a sporting event on TV cares at all about how much the winner gets. A conservative approach by someone who knows what he is doing might work.
I did like the Chelmsford show and it is interesting to see a player I saw on television.
Jam
I live in Chelmsford and was at the tournament and feel that I probably saw the best of the IPT close up. The players were good-Breedlove etc and the fans were in a good mood. It did not draw a big crowd even though the greater Lowell area is very sports orientated - New England Golden Gloves, the Red Sox Farm team, the second busiest Brunswick bowling alley on the East Coast. (When the bowling allies got caught in the flood this year Brunswick went 24/7 to get it going again.)
Perhaps the IPT should have used its money trying to develop grass roots support in the smaller markets instead of the big splash in Reno. Perhaps it wanted too much too soon! I do not think a person watching a sporting event on TV cares at all about how much the winner gets. A conservative approach by someone who knows what he is doing might work.
I did like the Chelmsford show and it is interesting to see a player I saw on television.
Bozo said:
Bozo, you live in a GREAT little town there in Chelmsford. Love that place!
Just so you know, the tournament I referenced was not the IPT's.
The tournament I remember fondly at Country Club was several years ago, a Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour event. The place was packed, and I had an absolute blast. Some of the players that I can remember today who attended then were Mike Zuglan, The Russian, Larry Lisciotti, Charlie Williams, Jose Parica, Santos, Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland, Allen Hopkins, just to name a few, and MANY, MANY, MANY regional sharp-shooters. There are, indeed, quite a few fine players in New England.
The tournament play throughout the event was excellent. As you know, Country Club USA is huge, offering spectators a comfortable place to sweat the action, and action there was that weekend in Chelmsford. The Russian and my counterpart played bumps, as did Larry Lisciotti and the Russian. There wasn't a dull moment. Each room offered pool at its finest, whether it was tournament play or games of stake.
Now that I think about it, one of the tournaments at Country Club was about 5 years ago or more. It was the first time I had ever met Diana Hoppe the photographer. Keith played well and got to the hot seat in the double-elimination event, but Ryan "Genie Man" McCreesh double-dipped him in the finals to snatch the almighty win.
I do remember getting lost in Chelmsford my first visit. We asked directions in town and were told to make the first right at the Rotary up the road a stretch. So we drove and drove and drove and never did see the Rotary Club. We pulled over again to seek directions, and I then found out that up North, a "rotary" means a circle in the highway. Down here in D.C., we call them "circles," i.e., "Chevy Chase Circle." In Chelmsford, they are rotaries.
JAM