How often do you play kill/drag shots?

Cornerman said:
Lots.

I wonder how many posters will say that it adds unneeded variables and that pros rarely use it unless absolutely necessary.


Freddie <~~~ not a pro
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If they do, they don't know what they're talking about!..The skid/drag/stun shot (or whatever you want to call it) is probably the most important shot of all, in all disciplines!..Top players become very proficient at it, early on!..Without it, they would never become top players. :rolleyes:

Being able to accurately stun the cue ball (or kill it forward a few inches) will usually come up several times a game..Learn it well, or get used to sleeping in your car! :eek:
 
pocket said:
Tate, a drag shot as I understand it. Hit it with enough energy so that the slide or backspin just wears off before contact with the object ball. Ergo the "kill" in the shot.
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That is a good description of the shot, if you want the CB to roll slightly after contact.

Actually all shots that kill the CB after contact are drag, or what's called a stun shot.
Depending on the CB speed on angled shots, the CB travels the stun line for shape.

.
 
We address this in Rocket's Science with Rodney Morris for a few minutes explaining how it works and showing it. Good shot to have in your arsenal.
 
Ralph Kramden said:
That is a good description of the shot, if you want the CB to roll slightly after contact.

Actually all shots that kill the CB after contact are drag, or what's called a stun shot.
Depending on the CB speed on angled shots, the CB travels the stun line for shape.
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Mr Kramden, No disrespect, but you may be the only one who understands either of your above statements? I see by the link you provided, that you are a big fan of 'off the wall', oddball games..No harm in that, but most folks that come here are looking to simplify the game of pool, not make it even more confusing! ;)

PS..'SLAP' and 'RAAP' ?????..C'mon man! :eek:
 
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Cornerman said:
Lots.

I wonder how many posters will say that it adds unneeded variables and that pros rarely use it unless absolutely necessary.


Freddie <~~~ not a pro
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I wonder why you are trying to instigate something here?? Draw drag shots are in the repertoire of every good player.
 
Honestly a long drag shot is a bit of a risk, I use it when I have to make a recovery losing position but it's not a shot you would play for if you had the option. Sure, some people use it because they don't trust their slow speed stroke (or they'll blame the table)

What this shot is useful for is two situations:

#1 is when a slow roll won't give you the right angle, and you're too far away to hit a normal stun because you'll be whacking it way too hard and overrun position, so you try really hard to hit with just the right speed and backspin that the cue ball slows down and it skidding right when it hits the OB, as if you'd hit a soft stun from a few inches away.

#2 Is when you need to stop, stun, or slightly draw the CB, but you're going into a pocket (typically side pocket) at an angle that the ball will be rejected unless you drag the CB to get a slow pocket speed.

Okay, you could also theoretically use it to play a safety, but the drag shot is so hard to get perfect speed and angle that only the most expert players should even think of attempting it to make their safety.

So really, drag shot is for when you want the soft stun or small draw of a very soft short-distance shot but you're further away and need to kill CB speed.
 
Jimbojim said:
'

Do you guys play a lot of drag shots, are you comfortable with them?
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Yes. Like some others said, I sometimes need to use it after getting out of line, to kill the CB as best I can and keep from making things worse.
 
pocket said:
Tate, a drag shot as I understand it. Hit it with enough energy so that the slide or backspin just wears off before contact with the object ball. Ergo the "kill" in the shot.
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OK, thanks. I hit most of my non-follow shots with low ball. I've been told I kill most shots.

I've practiced long drag shots and personally found they don't do much more than a slow roll can do and less precisely. I don't like to use long drag draw shots for any forward roll position play, just for stopping/killing the cue ball when necessary.

Now with English I think they're useful for throwing the OB on thin cuts. I sometimes use soft drag draw with English for throw and position. The side spin doesn't wear off like the drag does and it's much easier to spin the cue ball fast (with slow forward speed) with a stiff kill stroke. Inside English drag draw shots can kill a cue ball very well on thin shots, especially on a slow table, they're just very difficult to judge. The ball has to swerve precisely and slow at just the right time.
 
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I use drag shots often. Really any time I get too much angle, the drag shot is an option.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
While not rare, kill shots are not really common either. But, they do come up with some regularity to those that are familiar with them an their uses.

Interestingly, with the timing, this topic came up today with a student. This is a good example of what can be done using a kill shot that otherwise could not be done.

This was on a bar table, so the angles are steeper than on a 9'table. Set up an ob 1/4 ball off the side rail at the second diamond up from the corner pocket on a long rail. Place the cb 2 1/2 balls up from the side pocket on the centerline of the table. This should give you a 45 degree angle on the ob. Now place another ob on the short end rail centered.

The goal is to make the ob in the corner pocket and get shape on the ob on the rail to the opposite corner pocket only using one rail. (just pretend there are blocker balls so you can't go back and forth across the table to get down to the ob)

Practice it until you can at least get the cb half a diamond away from the ob and a ball or two widths off the end rail. It's not hard to do, but a good stroke is a must.

The only way to accomplish this task is with a masse' (no need to go to that extreme here) or with a draw-drag shot using english. The draw-drag kills the cb speed off the rail, the cb then spins down table, and the ob goes in at pocket speed.

I think the reason most have trouble with shots like above is because far too many are not stroking the cb correctly. They are trying to hit the cb where they want to, instead of trying to shoot right through the cb . (it's that old accelerate, not decelerate stroke).
 
Neil said:
While not rare, kill shots are not really common either. But, they do come up with some regularity to those that are familiar with them an their uses.

Interestingly, with the timing, this topic came up today with a student. This is a good example of what can be done using a kill shot that otherwise could not be done.

This was on a bar table, so the angles are steeper than on a 9'table. Set up an ob 1/4 ball off the side rail at the second diamond up from the corner pocket on a long rail. Place the cb 2 1/2 balls up from the side pocket on the centerline of the table. This should give you a 45 degree angle on the ob. Now place another ob on the short end rail centered.

The goal is to make the ob in the corner pocket and get shape on the ob on the rail to the opposite corner pocket only using one rail. (just pretend there are blocker balls so you can't go back and forth across the table to get down to the ob)

Practice it until you can at least get the cb half a diamond away from the ob and a ball or two widths off the end rail. It's not hard to do, but a good stroke is a must.

The only way to accomplish this task is with a masse' (no need to go to that extreme here) or with a draw-drag shot using english. The draw-drag kills the cb speed off the rail, the cb then spins down table, and the ob goes in at pocket speed.

I think the reason most have trouble with shots like above is because far too many are not stroking the cb correctly. They are trying to hit the cb where they want to, instead of trying to shoot right through the cb . (it's that old accelerate, not decelerate stroke).
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I beg to differ a little Neil..Killl/stun shots are very commonly used by all top players, in a variety of different situations, and they know how to execute those shots correctly..If you are talking about 'b' players, thats a whole different enchilada! Thats why they will never be A+ players!

As you say, you have to use proper technique, and accelerate through the shot, so it is really no different than any other shot..Pocket speed and angle of the cut, actually have very little to do with it..It is all about being familiar, and comfortable with the dynamics of the stun shot..Bottom line is, top players will execute them 95% of the time..'B' players, maybe 20%..It is very much an acquired skill!
 
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SJDinPHX said:
I beg to differ a little Neil..Killl/stun shots are very commonly used by really good players, in a variety of different situations, and they know how to execute the shot correctly..If you are talking about 'b' players, thats a whole different enchilada!

As you say, you have to use proper technique, and accelerate through the shot, so it is really no different than any other shot..Pocket speed really has little to do with it..It is all about being familiar, and comfortable with the dynamics of the stun shot..Bottom line is, top players will execute it 95% of the time..'B' players, maybe 10%..It is very much an acquired skill!
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I agree, SJD.

I plan my shots to use it and use it more often, than not. To me, it is a way to use a constant acceleration and stroke on my shots.

To each their own, I guess.
 
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Here is the drag shot for you:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LvJP0Xld8u4

I do play it at times instead of slow rolling from distance or when i need to kill the cue ball. For those who play drag shots do you aim slightly thicker? My coach told me to aim thicker which practically true in my case but never understood the rationale behind it.
 
It's the absolute backbone of my game. I use it constantly. More so in 8 ball than rotation but still my most used shot until you are back in line with the pattern you're after. It's an invaluable tool.
 
SJDinPHX said:
I beg to differ a little Neil..Killl/stun shots are very commonly used by all top players, in a variety of different situations, and they know how to execute those shots correctly..If you are talking about 'b' players, thats a whole different enchilada! Thats why they will never be A+ players!

As you say, you have to use proper technique, and accelerate through the shot, so it is really no different than any other shot..Pocket speed and angle of the cut, actually have very little to do with it..It is all about being familiar, and comfortable with the dynamics of the stun shot..Bottom line is, top players will execute them 95% of the time..'B' players, maybe 20%..It is very much an acquired skill!
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Nah, there's no difference , Dick. I was thinking more of B players and below when I wrote it. I should have stated it differently.
 
Great video that a member above posted.:thumbup:

I think I would consider using a drag shot with side spin a relatively advanced shot when the CB and OB are at a fair distance from one another. I know some players don't even realize it when a drag shot is used in short distances.
 
Use it a LOT on the barbox, and when needed on the 9 footer....just need to create some space on the box to keep cb from sliding around too much, or when you need to really open the angle up to break out clusters or avoid hitting other balls.....this allows you to do it, big time.
 
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