How to develop an A player's stroke.

urban legend

Eat rice 3 times a day...yes steamed rice... look at them rice eating pro players from Asia (Filipino, Chinese, Taiwanese and Japanese). They've been stroking their way to the WPC finals since 1999?:D I heard it also improves your kicking abilities and will find it easier to make those tough thin cuts.
 
Hey there Williebetmore, how are you?

I believe that #1 is the most important facet of all.

Without the proper setup, your stroke may be like a rifle that isn't actually pointing at the target.

We are all capable of developing a "bad mental picture", of the correct angle, for setup on the Shot Line. Therefore we miss with our shot. We setup correctly, 8 out of ten & we become an 8 speed, or 6 out of 10 & wind up a 6 Speed.

JMHO, good luck to all...
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Shoot any game or drill, but use an object ball as your "cue ball". For each shot, turn the "cue ball" so one of its circles is facing you with its number upright - that's your "strike zone". Before shooting the shot, decide exactly where in the strike zone you want to hit the CB (for instance, "10 o'clock, on the circle", or "3 o'clock, halfway to the circle"). After each shot notice how the shot worked out and check the chalk mark to see how close you came to your CB target.

Simple.

pj
chgo
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Excellent advice.
 
randyg said:
Joey. Scott is out of the SPF School. He's one of the best Instructors out there. Scott is also our 2007 Instructor of the Year. We are proud of Scott. Hope he answers your request......SPF=randyg
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Randy, I've met Scott at DCC. Nice guy.
You've got an invitation also. Post away. :)
JoeyA
 
Thanks Joey: First we have our students start to develop their personal S.O.P. (Standard Operating Procedure). Now we both have something to work off of. Their Mantra and SPF follow next.

Our unique use of the video enables both of us (student-instructor) to understand what the body is doing.

Why don't you attend our next class in Houma????
Talk later, randyg
 
Williebetmore said:
JA,
I believe that if your goal is super accuracy; then your practice drills must focus on the elements of the stroke that lead to precision and accuracy.

I think that the "power stroke" drills of Mark Wilson and Jerry Briesath definitely help (I've been doing them on and off for 2 years and my game continues to improve by leaps and bounds).
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GREAT stuff. Printing out now... But to the extent that the player must score "A" for Attention, the issue becomes what mechanical flaws contributed to the flaw?

Without a skilled eye...or at least a self-video if you are well-schooled in the fundamentals and can self-diagnose, then many players will assume that X was the problem when it was actually Y or Z.

My only point is that the great advice you posted from 2 of the best instructors on the planet, is best combined with personal instruction time which, I assume you would agree, is likely to accelerate the learning process in a major way.

(I have no affiliation with any instructor or school)

Regards,
Jim
 
Williebetmore said:
JA,
I believe that if your goal is super accuracy; then your practice drills must focus on the elements of the stroke that lead to precision and accuracy.

I think that the "power stroke" drills of Mark Wilson and Jerry Briesath definitely help (I've been doing them on and off for 2 years and my game continues to improve by leaps and bounds).


The power stroke will magnify any inaccuracies in your stroke and setup. The stroke drills that I am using require the grading of each and every stroke in 7 areas:

1. Care with aim and setup
2. Full and complete practice swings (with a pause right before the actual stroke).
3. Slow and straight backswing (same on practice swings and actual stroke), with smooth transfer (no jerkiness) from backswing to actual stroke.
4. No body motion before, during, or after stroke
5. No elbow collapse
6. Perfectly straight tip follow through (and low because of the no elbow collapse).
7. Light, uniform grip pressure throughout stroke

Shoot 10 shots with extreme follow, 10 with center ball, and 10 with extreme draw:

#1 - Put the cue ball on the foot spot, object ball one diamond from the far corner pocket, one diamond away from the long rail. Shoot 10 times with power stroke (inaccuracies in the stroke will be magnified, and easier to find and correct with the power stroke), maximum top spin. After each shot, grade yourself on each of these 7 areas (A=needs attention, S=skillful). Have an extra row on your evaluation sheet for a P=perfect if the ball goes in.

#2 - Again with cue ball on foot spot, put object ball 2 diamonds from far corner, and 1 ball width from the long rail. Shoot with power stun (cue ball should come straight across table at least 1 1/2 table widths on a 9 footer). Shoot 10 times and grade yourself as above

#3 - Last shot is with cue ball on foot spot, object ball straight in and 2 diamonds from the far corner. Shoot 10 shots with power draw, as low as possible, drawing the cue ball back to the foot rail if you can. Grade as above. After these 30 shots have been taken and graded - TAKE A BREAK (you deserve it, you will be tired if you are concentrating properly) and do it again later in the day.

I have a copy of the scoring sheet I use to grade each shot; but couldn't find the forum link; if you were really interested I'd send you a copy by snail mail (or you could always make a roadtrip to Betmore's Basement).

P.S. - you will note that Mark and Jerry have not recommended a different speed for practice swings and the actual stroke. Mark is not a proponent of the rapid practice swings to "loosen up"; he feels that the practice swings should be actual practice for the stroke to come.

P.P.S. - you could amend the 7 stroke areas to conform to your idea of a "perfect stroke" the key being that you are evaluating and grading your stroke each shot; and it is this feedback that allows improvement.
Click to expand...

Tap. Tap. Tap.

I love this drill. I like practice that is easily measurable and requires that I stay focused. NO nonchalantin!
 
av84fun said:
GREAT stuff. Printing out now... But to the extent that the player must score "A" for Attention, the issue becomes what mechanical flaws contributed to the flaw?

Without a skilled eye...or at least a self-video if you are well-schooled in the fundamentals and can self-diagnose, then many players will assume that X was the problem when it was actually Y or Z.

My only point is that the great advice you posted from 2 of the best instructors on the planet, is best combined with personal instruction time which, I assume you would agree, is likely to accelerate the learning process in a major way.

(I have no affiliation with any instructor or school)

Regards,
Jim
Click to expand...

J,
In many sports, the difference between the amateur and the professional is that the pro has a better sense of what he is actually doing during the activity. What we THINK we are doing, may not actually BE what we are doing (as you so perceptively point out).

The value of these drills is that it forces you to pay attention to the mechanics; which so many people take for granted. Even top pro's have been known to benefit from this type of close attention to the mechanics. The level of precision required to play top level pool is astounding (but not obviously apparent to the casual observer).
 
ceebee said:
Without the proper setup, your stroke may be like a rifle that isn't actually pointing at the target.

..
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CB,
I'm sure Mark Wilson would agree with you.

Another of his drills is basically #1 above; EXCEPT you must approach the shot, settle into it, use your eyes to check your alignment, then shoot with NO practice swings and NO re-alignment once down (just get up and start over if you feel you haven't got into it properly).

It was a bit tedious to do; but the benefits were dramatic.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the backup there WBM, hope your game is solid.

Bert Kinister has a video, "The Mighty X", where that particular scenario is taught. It works. Once the "correct picture" is learned, the other basics are fortified with a solid foundation. The "Mighty X" was a great training video for me.
 
For some folks, just take 10 years off the game.

Their stroke will deteriorate down to an A player's stroke. :)
 
Bugz...Darn it! What'd I forget? :D J/K, of course! We did get a chance to cover a lot of good information...but we spent several hours doing it. The dvd's and workbook will help remind you how to practice, to ingrain that information into your setup and delivery process...until it becomes a habit!

On topic, with this thread, I can offer what I believe to be some sound advice. Like Randyg mentioned, we work with our students to help them understand and create a solid "platform", from which they can derive a better sense of consistency, and application, of the fundamentals and mechanics making up each person's standard operating procedure (SOP). One of the first things I do with every student is to help them understand what their "personal template" is, and how it affects the way they set up and deliver the cue, accurately and consistently. The template consists of a player's natural stance, natural bridge length, the correct grip placement on the cue (at CB address), and then their individual 'pre-shot routine' (which includes their own timing mechanisms). The overal SOP process includes the mental and physical parts that go into each player's 'routine', even before they stand down on the shot...and progress right through completing the shot, and achieving position for the next shot. Without this basic understanding of how these elements affect the way the cue is delivered through the CB, it's difficult to begin to understand how to create the "perfect stroke". Once the knowledge is attained, the hard work begins, in order to replace old conditioned behavior, with new learned behavior. The length of time that takes will be in accordance with the desire, and 'stick-to-it' attitude that each player must accept, in order to succeed.

FYI...I'll be in MS, AL, LA & TX for the next couple of weeks, if anyone is interested in working with me. PM or email me...:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
email: poolology@aol.com

Bugz said:
I can honestly say that Mr. Lee has forgotten more about pool then I know.
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mr8ball said:
When I first started playing I had a very bad stroke. I was always what they call chicken wing. I tried all sorts of things such as the coke bottle, stroking over the diamonds and even along the inside of the rail. Well some of it helped to a point but nothing like what I have now. I don't have to tell you what that is for the ones that know me. One thing I have noticed over the years everyone has their own opinion about how to fix their stroke. I know for a fact until you find a way to control your stroke arm and a steady bridge hand and have it do the same thing time after time you will always struggle with your stroke. I found out that I did in a matter of weeks what most people have struggled to do their whole life. ?Develop a nice stroke? I put this on you tube from the DCC 2 years ago. I know some of you will bash me for this but it works
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BOd6gt6G1S0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEcUkTjqXYM

I hope you enjoy it.
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If that device helped you, I think that is GREAT. Good for you. But any such devise, whether stroking along the seem between the top rail and the cushion, or into a coke bottle...or through Buddy Hall's stroke trainer, merely alerts you to a variation from a true pendulum--straight back and forth stroke.

What it does not do, except I suppose by rote trial and error, is to instruct you as to WHY your stroke isn't straight.

A top instructor and tell in you 5 minutes why your stroke isn't straight and provide a SERIES of remedies that no machine can ever do.

You do have a fine looking stroke though and however you acquired it is great.

Regards,
Jim
 
Scott, you were not clear on whether you were looking to give lessons in
those states, or looking to get them, DOH :) You just said if anyone wanted
to work with you.

Remember, you can never learn too much!
No one knows it all!
You don't know what you don't know!

Ever wonder why some pros (and even experts) drop the elbow, and some
don't, DOH :)
 
whitey2 said:
Scott, you were not clear on whether you were looking to give lessons in
those states, or looking to get them, DOH :) You just said if anyone wanted
to work with you.

Remember, you can never learn too much!
No one knows it all!
You don't know what you don't know!

Ever wonder why some pros (and even experts) drop the elbow, and some
don't, DOH :)
Click to expand...

Longer follow through...which some prefer...like me. But it does absolutely NO good. It's just a habit. The CB is gone in a millisecond and could care less how long your follow through is. All that matters is that you have applied a smooth stroke such that the cue is not decellerating prior to CB impact and that you don't drop the elbow before CB impact (which Scott Lee tells me I don't do...confirmed by the video he shot).

That is so because an object in motion tends to stay in motion so if the cue is slowing down before striking the CB it is only because the player's muscles are applying a force that causes the decelleration and that application of resisting force can cause all kinds of errors.

Can you post links to videos that show top pros dropping the elbow BEFORE CB impact? Maybe 1 in 50.

The issue for teachers and students is what is the best technique for the vast majority of players who don't necessarily care to compete as pros and/or who don't have the time to devote if they did...but who want to maximize their games as amateurs.

It would be just as wrong to teach players to put a MAJOR loop in their stroke like Django just because he is one of the greats. Nor would any top instructor who Django might ask for some coaching even BRING UP that subject.

Ditto with the elbow drop. MOST players who drop the elbow before CB impact are introducing a cueing error that will cost them. And just because SOME players who have phenominal coordination can get away with it doesn't recommend that technique to other players.

Regards,
Jim
 
JoeyA said:
... Are there and drills in particular that you would recommend? ...
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I think the over-the-spots drill (cue ball only straight up and down the center of the table) is a good one to start with. Use a stripe as the cue ball to see any unintended side spin immediately. Snooker champions are said to practice this, but at snooker there's enough money in the game that champions practice.

Do the draw drills in the Basics Clinic handout at www.sfbilliards.com but again use a stripe as your cue ball to get feedback about off-center hits. Here is the level 4 version of that drill: you have cue ball in hand in the kitchen. The object ball starts one diamond out of the kitchen. Pocket the object ball in a foot corner and draw to leave the cue ball within a diamond of the head rail. If you do this, put the object ball two diamonds out of the kitchen (by the side pockets) and again draw back to near the head rail. As with all "progressive practice" drills, if you fail to do it right, make the next shot easier by half a diamond and adjust half a diamond harder or easier for each subsequent shot.

Any A player should be able to get the object ball down to the foot pocket and still be 50% to leave the cue ball within a diamond of the head rail.

Remember to do this with a stripe as the cue ball so you can see off-center hits.

If you can't make good progress with this shot, find an instructor or go back to one of the easier levels of drills in the handout.

There is a new set of books of drills (or tests, really) in the PAT program. Some of those drills specifically test stroke accuracy.
 
to get straightness and smoothness down I go with the old faithful of stroke drills

from the box line up and shoot the CB up table. off the rail back on the tip of your cue.

10 shots in a row.. back and forth...with out moving.

Also, the ol' beer bottle drill.... lay it down and stroke thru the opening to the back of the bottle without contacting the rim or the sides of the bottle.

Work's for me....
 
randyg said:
Thanks Joey: First we have our students start to develop their personal S.O.P. (Standard Operating Procedure). Now we both have something to work off of. Their Mantra and SPF follow next.

Our unique use of the video enables both of us (student-instructor) to understand what the body is doing.

Why don't you attend our next class in Houma????
Talk later, randyg
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That's great stuff, Randy.
Thanks for the invite. Keep me in mind when you decide to come down to Houma.
JoeyA
 
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