How to Fiorm a Mens Pro Tour - Would this work ?

LeagueGuy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My thoughts on how to get a pro tour off the ground

First, we have to recognize that the funding for the tour in its early years needs to come from the players – both the pro’s and those who think they could be. We need to utilize the existing pool halls and use them to generate added money for the tour.

We also need to recognize that any possible TV exposure will only happen once we get the appropriate stability in place.

The assumption has been made that there are 800 or more players that would participate in a pro tour qualifying system and that money would be used to get the tour off the ground.

Here are the steps envision to follow to get a men’s pro tour going.

1) Someone must take control and become the self named – commissioner of the tour (a salary of approx $60,000-80,000 per year once it gets off the ground). It would be preferable if the APA or BCA could get this off the ground
2) Contact 8 locations halls across the US and set up dates for 32 qualifying events (4 at each of the hall) .These events would take place in Jan-March 2012
3) Each qualifier has 32 entries at $375 each. $25 to the tournament director (or pool hall), $350 to the tour prize fund. Top 2 at each qualifier would obtain their tour cards for 2012
4) After 32 of these are run – you have 64 carded tour players and 358,000 in funds (of which 300,000 is money added to the tour fund)
5) Locate 10 halls across the US to have your fist year – tour runs from Late march 2012 to Nov 2012 – the 8 halls used in step 2 get first right of refusal)
6) These halls BUY the rights to host a tour event. These right cost the hall $15,000. In return, the hall gets 32 entries into the event as well as control of all gate proceeds for the event. The hall would make money buy holding qualifiying events and selling tickets and in addition, 6 pros would be scheduled to appear in the evenings the Mon-Wed before the tour for exhibitions, autographs etc. At the end of the day, the hall should be able to generate a $5,000 or more operating profit for hosting the event. Of this money paid by the hall, $12,000 goes to the players fund, and $3,000 goes to the commissioner for expenses. salary etc.
7) Entry fees for the events are $750 per tour player. Thus with the entry fee plus $42,000 added for each event, you have a $90,000 payout at each event or ($900,000 for the tour first year). Pay out the top 32 with the winner receiving $25,000 and you have enough money added to have the top pros interested.
8) At the end of year, the top 32 on the money list keep their cards for year 2 and pay a fee of $500. You then run the same 32 qualifiers and qualify 64 more and then you have a 128 player field at each event for year 2 and your tour is now set up for subsequent years.
9) Throughout year 1 and beyond, the commissioner is always looking for sponsorhips.
10) The commissioner needs to work with the Turning Stone, DCC, US Open and other events to increase the exposure of not only the tour but also these one off tournaments as well
11) In year 2 or 3 once you have the tour stable and with a name and maybe some media coverage, you look for a TV deal that does not require the tour to pay money. Use a lower network.

These are just some thoughts on how to get a tour off the ground.
My question is, if it was properly organized, would this work ?

Leagueguy
 
My question is, if it was properly organized, would this work ?

Yes.

In the same way as if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its ass.

I got as far as " Someone must take control and become the self named – commissioner of the tour"
 
I got as far as the first sentence...LMAO! The "players" don't have any money...as a whole. A few do, but very few. To think that there are 800 pro players that would pay a $375 entry fee, with NO payback (but a few of you might get a pro card...:rolleyes:) sounds a lot like the IPT scam. Screw me once, shame on you...screw me twice, shame on ME!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

My thoughts on how to get a pro tour off the ground

First, we have to recognize that the funding for the tour in its early years needs to come from the players – both the pro’s and those who think they could be. We need to utilize the existing pool halls and use them to generate added money for the tour.

We also need to recognize that any possible TV exposure will only happen once we get the appropriate stability in place.

The assumption has been made that there are 800 or more players that would participate in a pro tour qualifying system and that money would be used to get the tour off the ground.

Here are the steps envision to follow to get a men’s pro tour going.

1) Someone must take control and become the self named – commissioner of the tour (a salary of approx $60,000-80,000 per year once it gets off the ground). It would be preferable if the APA or BCA could get this off the ground
2) Contact 8 locations halls across the US and set up dates for 32 qualifying events (4 at each of the hall) .These events would take place in Jan-March 2012
3) Each qualifier has 32 entries at $375 each. $25 to the tournament director (or pool hall), $350 to the tour prize fund. Top 2 at each qualifier would obtain their tour cards for 2012
4) After 32 of these are run – you have 64 carded tour players and 358,000 in funds (of which 300,000 is money added to the tour fund)
5) Locate 10 halls across the US to have your fist year – tour runs from Late march 2012 to Nov 2012 – the 8 halls used in step 2 get first right of refusal)
6) These halls BUY the rights to host a tour event. These right cost the hall $15,000. In return, the hall gets 32 entries into the event as well as control of all gate proceeds for the event. The hall would make money buy holding qualifiying events and selling tickets and in addition, 6 pros would be scheduled to appear in the evenings the Mon-Wed before the tour for exhibitions, autographs etc. At the end of the day, the hall should be able to generate a $5,000 or more operating profit for hosting the event. Of this money paid by the hall, $12,000 goes to the players fund, and $3,000 goes to the commissioner for expenses. salary etc.
7) Entry fees for the events are $750 per tour player. Thus with the entry fee plus $42,000 added for each event, you have a $90,000 payout at each event or ($900,000 for the tour first year). Pay out the top 32 with the winner receiving $25,000 and you have enough money added to have the top pros interested.
8) At the end of year, the top 32 on the money list keep their cards for year 2 and pay a fee of $500. You then run the same 32 qualifiers and qualify 64 more and then you have a 128 player field at each event for year 2 and your tour is now set up for subsequent years.
9) Throughout year 1 and beyond, the commissioner is always looking for sponsorhips.
10) The commissioner needs to work with the Turning Stone, DCC, US Open and other events to increase the exposure of not only the tour but also these one off tournaments as well
11) In year 2 or 3 once you have the tour stable and with a name and maybe some media coverage, you look for a TV deal that does not require the tour to pay money. Use a lower network.

These are just some thoughts on how to get a tour off the ground.
My question is, if it was properly organized, would this work ?

Leagueguy
 
Very simple what it will take to form a pro tour.... Someone with tons of cash and love for the game.

What it will take to keep the tour going.... Players that are making a living from the tour and willing to promote the game.
 
I thing the early year's tour cards would need to be subsidized by the governing body...at least until the Tour proved itself viable.

Whoever wants to have a go at it is looking at a real money loser for a while.

http://img181.imageshack.us/i/roormeloncc8.jpg/
roormeloncc8.jpg
 
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I made it all the way down to the poolroom owners pay $15,000 to host an event. :D I don't mean to make fun of your post but the numbers based on experience probably are not going to work.

The fastest way to a pro tour is to use the existing top events DCC, CSI Events, Turning Stone, US Open, etc to be the base of a tour. The first step is to develop an organization that can work with the promoters, create a points system (for a tour champion, Mosconi cup inclusion, etc), code of conduct, etc, etc.

In the past, the first step has been a problem over the years. Not placing any blame on anyone in particular but IMHO, it's been a collective failure. Players, promoters, industry, fans, etc. have played a part.
 
The way to do it, is simple. Money. Lot's of it.

How many professional sports do the players pay to play in? Not many. The players get paid to play, and they get paid even if they lose. In order for a pro tour to work you need someone who can get the sponsors to spend the cash, get a TV network to pay to show it, and get fans willing to pay to watch it.

Brian
 
Bingo! Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

You hit the nail right on the head. Tobacco and Alcohol were two big sponsors of pool until they were legislated out.

The way to do it, is simple. Money. Lot's of it.

How many professional sports do the players pay to play in? Not many. The players get paid to play, and they get paid even if they lose. In order for a pro tour to work you need someone who can get the sponsors to spend the cash, get a TV network to pay to show it, and get fans willing to pay to watch it.

Brian
 
The way to do it, is simple. Money. Lot's of it.

How many professional sports do the players pay to play in? Not many. The players get paid to play, and they get paid even if they lose. In order for a pro tour to work you need someone who can get the sponsors to spend the cash, get a TV network to pay to show it, and get fans willing to pay to watch it.

Brian

I agree with much of what you say and will only disagree with the part where you say "get the fans willing to pay to watch it". Given the amount of "free" entertainment, available, I believe the fans would have to be able to watch it for free (on the cable or internet connection they already pay for, just like other sports.
 
A tour isnt and shouldn't be just some random billionaire throwing his money away til he's tired of it. If that's what you want or are looking for, the "pro tour" viscous cycle will continue to disapoint.

So what can we do?

I look at events like the "super billiards expo" and wonder, why can't something like this happen 12 times a year? Just a little different.

First of all, the SBE is great. It brings together everyone. Gamblers, league players, fans, children players, exhibitors, professionals, etc.

That is something that could be grown from. For a professional tour to work, in my opinion, you have to have a solid way to become a professional.

--------------------

Here is my idea of a self funding tour for professionals and amateurs alike. 12 stops, one a month.

Each stop would have 4 divisions. 3 amateur (open, B level, bangers), 1 professional.

Payouts always the same, no matter the amount of entries.

Banger entry - $50 ($5,000 in payouts to top 32)
B level entry - $70 ($10,000 in payouts to top 32)
Open Entry - $100 ($15,000 in payouts to top 32)
Pro entry - $500 ($150,000 in payouts to top 32)

To become a professional, you must finish in the top in the open division or be "invited".

So $180,000 must be generated through 4 divisions + exhibitors/sponsors/food & drinks to really "break even" and becoming a successful tour for both players and promoters alike. Obviously there are expenses like the venue, food to sell, security, staff, insurance etc.

Maybe these numbers don't work, they could be more, could be less. But I think it could be the base work for a solid tour that could please players of all levels and promoters alike.

If you break down events like Super Billiards Expo, you can see these numbers are reachable.
 
I agree with much of what you say and will only disagree with the part where you say "get the fans willing to pay to watch it". Given the amount of "free" entertainment, available, I believe the fans would have to be able to watch it for free (on the cable or internet connection they already pay for, just like other sports.

By pay to watch it, I mean show up at the venue to watch it live, not PPV. I don't think you'd have the same affect on TV if there wasn't an audience.
 
A tour isnt and shouldn't be just some random billionaire throwing his money away til he's tired of it. If that's what you want or are looking for, the "pro tour" viscous cycle will continue to disapoint.

Oh, I don't think it should be anyone throwing away their money. But, to start a legit tour that goes across the country and/or world, you need to have a bankroll to start off with. By having the capital available you're able to provide some reassurance to sponsors, venues, and TV partners that they won't be throwing their money away at a venture that will fail. You would want the tour to be making a profit by the end of the 2nd year or so. The idea eventually would be that the person who started the thing would actually make a return on their investment over time.
 
Very simple what it will take to form a pro tour.... Someone with tons of cash and love for the game.

What it will take to keep the tour going.... Players that are making a living from the tour and willing to promote the game.

I agree with this. Although they don't necessarily have to have a love for the game.

I think pool needs someone like Dana White from the UFC (like him or hate him). Someone that can promote the game and maybe find a way to get it on TV. Take the existing tournaments and someone that can sell it to one of the zillions of cable channels (Versus???) and you have yourself a "tour".

Having said that, I haven't been paying much attention to what has been going on in the pool world for the past few years. Just recently I began paying attention again and I have been REALLY IMPRESSED with all the new options we have as fans. With or without a "tour" I think pool is headed for a breakthrough. Just being able to see pool in HD is pretty cool.

Just thinkin' out loud.
 
simple

funding could be so easy its been said and said over and over again.

all leagues need to either give up a dollar per person on the annual sanction fee or raise it 1 dollar, and send that money to a pot to fund a pro tour it would be as easy as that and it would cost you 1 dollar a yr.

but of course there alot of people who would get offended over 1 dollar a yr on their league fees because they feel the pros have done nothing for them and dont deserve the money and whatever other bullshit they want to tell themselves. becasue ive gotten flamed over bringing this up before.

im just going to stop there.
 
Simonis

Ivan Lee of Simonis (current president of the BCA) is the person whom realizes whats going on within our industry in todays economy. Get him to redirect the BCA board of directors thinking and promote the game from the bottom up. The BCA has the wherewithal to change and promote the industry, and just as important they have a conglomerate of successful business owners on the board of directors who know business, how it operates an then it can become successful. When the BCA moved here to Colorado Springs with a vision of Olympics and pool they got the cart in front of the horse, they should of built the sport FIRST then moved towards the Olympic direction second.
 
funding could be so easy its been said and said over and over again.

all leagues need to either give up a dollar per person on the annual sanction fee or raise it 1 dollar, and send that money to a pot to fund a pro tour it would be as easy as that and it would cost you 1 dollar a yr.

but of course there alot of people who would get offended over 1 dollar a yr on their league fees because they feel the pros have done nothing for them and dont deserve the money and whatever other bullshit they want to tell themselves. becasue ive gotten flamed over bringing this up before.

im just going to stop there.

While I agree with that as a startup measure, at what point do the players have to put something back in. If it was the APA or BCAPL that threw in 250,000 to get it going, do each of the top 64 pro's have to do exhibitions.

The main argument about my original post is that the pros have no money and thus would not fund the tour themselves. If that is the case and you can acquire startup funding for year 1, could you then get the pros to put somwething back in. Exhibitions, appearances etc.

I think if you combine startup funding with a qualification process for the subsequent years, you have something that can survive.

Hell, if the BCAPL and APA could even work together on somethng like this, then each could have 50% ownership of a pro tour.
 
Bill...I don't know why you continue this banter about the "responsibility" of the BCA to the players. They don't have any. They are a MANUFACTURER'S GROUP...period. They don't have any revenue to put into the players, and are close to being underfunded, with the loss of many business members (for various reasons, which they are trying to remedy). Find a new dead horse to beat, would you please?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Ivan Lee of Simonis (current president of the BCA) is the person whom realizes whats going on within our industry in todays economy. Get him to redirect the BCA board of directors thinking and promote the game from the bottom up. The BCA has the wherewithal to change and promote the industry, and just as important they have a conglomerate of successful business owners on the board of directors who know business, how it operates an then it can become successful. When the BCA moved here to Colorado Springs with a vision of Olympics and pool they got the cart in front of the horse, they should of built the sport FIRST then moved towards the Olympic direction second.
 
Bill...I don't know why you continue this banter about the "responsibility" of the BCA to the players. They don't have any. They are a MANUFACTURER'S GROUP...period. They don't have any revenue to put into the players, and are close to being underfunded, with the loss of many business members (for various reasons, which they are trying to remedy). Find a new dead horse to beat, would you please?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

If you look back at their history they did support the hand that fed itself and thats what got them to where they are at. They are the only billiard related organization that has the money to do something. Sometimes one has to repeat themselves, like teaching, they don't always get it the first time.
 
Like Andrew said: How about the Allen Hopkins Super Billiards Tour rather than just the Allen Hopkins Super Billiards Expo? Someone on here has to know Allen and I'm sure a similar suggestion has been brought to his attention before. There was a Dana White comment previously that I would like to touch on. Until pool has guys beating each others faces in with sticks and balls (no pun intended), it will never even come close to the exposure that the UFC has. Not everyone gets as excited as we did when Shane beat Mika, but people definitley got excited when GSP spanked Koschek again. No one would invest into pool what Dana White has into the UFC because there is not as much interest. This is my favorite "game" or "sport," call it what you want, and I wish as much as you guys that it would grow and that people would see it for what it is. But, until there is someone willing to put up the money, it's never going to happen. We are a small family of players/coaches/enthusiasts who love the game of pool.
 
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