How to get a Fargo rating? I'm sure it's been posted millions of times but I need it.

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
If someone is new to Fargo, the numbers don’t mean anything. It’s reasonable to align it with familiar ratings to help give context. And even then, I think it makes sense to categorize what the different numbers mean in terms of skill classes.
Agreed. That's not really the issue. The issue is that New England has their ABCD system which works great for them and each designation means something. Every other region around the country has their own system. It's not universal.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the Salotto app is a very cost effective way to get Fargo games in. If you are a Salotto pro member ($4.99 per month), to have a race to 10 submitted to Fargo, you are only charged $1.99. So for $2 you can potentially get 19 games into Fargo. Compared to a $20 tournament entry or $5-8 weekly league fee, Salotto is by far cheaper to get Fargo games in.

You can also pay an annual fee of $50 instead of the $5 per month for a $10 savings.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Agreed. That's not really the issue. The issue is that New England has their ABCD system which works great for them and each designation means something. Every other region around the country has their own system. It's not universal.

ABCD is also used in Wyoming and Montana extensively.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
ABCD is also used in Wyoming and Montana extensively.
I believe it! most places use a letter system, and a few use numbers. The discrepancies come when one local "A" player starts beating all the others then they start throwing out the "A++" or the "AAA". By the time Fargo is commonplace, a newer system will take it's place. :D
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
Agreed. That's not really the issue. The issue is that New England has their ABCD system which works great for them and each designation means something. Every other region around the country has their own system. It's not universal.
Sure, and I suppose I should have mentioned that we need to be clear what scale you are talking about when aligning the ratings. ABCD is different from Pro Open ABCD which is different than AAA AA ABCD and so on.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe it! most places use a letter system, and a few use numbers. The discrepancies come when one local "A" player starts beating all the others then they start throwing out the "A++" or the "AAA". By the time Fargo is commonplace, a newer system will take it's place. :D
Sure, and I suppose I should have mentioned that we need to be clear what scale you are talking about when aligning the ratings. ABCD is different from Pro Open ABCD which is different than AAA AA ABCD and so on.

There is definitely more than one ABCD system in use, if you check the link below, I posted it a few posts back but still had it in the clipboard, there are a couple of different ones mentioned. Outside of FargoRate, APA, and BCA I have personally only used the AAAA, AAA, AA, A, etc. ratings system and the problem I found is it's subjective, meaning there are no calculations (that I know of) to determine ratings. You play in an area and they say you're AAA but then other AAA's show up and you realize they're much better than you. Of course, we all know this and this is why things are changing :)


 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think we will start seeing those AAAA, AAA, AA, A, B, C ratings based upon Fargo #s more and more until it is the norm.

Yep, that's what I have experienced. As a 600+ rated player I was placed as a AAA. Seemed about right but of course I hadn't practiced in 6 months so the outcome was very predictable ;)
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
There is definitely more than one ABCD system in use, if you check the link below, I posted it a few posts back but still had it in the clipboard, there are a couple of different ones mentioned. Outside of FargoRate, APA, and BCA I have personally only used the AAAA, AAA, AA, A, etc. ratings system and the problem I found is it's subjective, meaning there are no calculations (that I know of) to determine ratings. You play in an area and they say you're AAA but then other AAA's show up and you realize they're much better than you. Of course, we all know this and this is why things are changing :)


For discussion purposes, I always preferred Pro, Open ABCD. I found it was always clearer because having 'Pro' clearly designated at one end and D on the other, we can surmise roughly what the middle ratings mean. Without that, I'm never sure if AAAA++++ is Pro, Open or below Open. I do welcome the clarity that Fargo brings. Even at the lower levels, D is a HUGE rating that ranges from someone who might even have a break and run to their credit to a person who isn't sure which end of the cue to use. Fargo adds that nuance that the letters lacked.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sure, and I suppose I should have mentioned that we need to be clear what scale you are talking about when aligning the ratings. ABCD is different from Pro Open ABCD which is different than AAA AA ABCD and so on.

The issue with the rating systems is that areas keep trying to do things locally how their players play, instead of a global one where it's based on how well a player plays. If a guy can run out a rack of 9 ball 50% of the time with ball in hand, that is a pure skill irrelevant of where it's done. And it's simple to stick in categories that way. If you say Bob is better than Jim, so Jim is a D and Bob is a C. Now we have Al who is better than Bob so Al is a B. But Al can barely make 3 balls in a row because both Bob and Jim can only make 2, so we have a local area where an "A" player is a guy that can shoot in 4 balls, now what do we do when a good player comes in that can run out 9? We have AAAAA? No that's silly. We need to start out with a rating based on individual skill not relative to the pool hall or city or state, one that can be used no matter where someone is. Fargo is that, but the ABCD Open, Pro rating can also be, if it's used properly. If D- is the lowest, that is a guy that can make 1 ball with ball in hand and has has no concept of position or safety play, and we move up from there to the Pro that can beat the 10 or 11 ball ghost with great position, safe and kicking. Fill in the blanks in the middle with logical progression. An Open can beat the 9 ball ghost with almost as good position. A+ may be able to beat the 9 ball ghost like the Open but with a lower score and has less kicking and position skill... and we just keep going. Easy and no need to look at how Al plays vs Bob.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yep, that's what I have experienced. As a 600+ rated player I was placed as a AAA. Seemed about right but of course I hadn't practiced in 6 months so the outcome was very predictable ;)

See there is the difference, an AAA, is basically an Open player, and those are in the low 700s not just 600+, otherwise the ratings get silly. If an AAA is a 600, then an AA player is like a 580 and an A is a 550, which means as we go down we have Bs in the 400s which is clearly not the case.
 

AF pool guy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WTF? Two yrs and you haven't turned in any matches? Why did you join? Covid related? Just curious.

Lived overseas for 8 years, COVID happened, my local tournaments don’t report, and now I only play in APA masters and a local in-house league. But to use the app to save favorites, you need to have a login, so I created one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The issue with the rating systems is that areas keep trying to do things locally how their players play, instead of a global one where it's based on how well a player plays. If a guy can run out a rack of 9 ball 50% of the time with ball in hand, that is a pure skill irrelevant of where it's done. And it's simple to stick in categories that way. If you say Bob is better than Jim, so Jim is a D and Bob is a C. Now we have Al who is better than Bob so Al is a B. But Al can barely make 3 balls in a row because both Bob and Jim can only make 2, so we have a local area where an "A" player is a guy that can shoot in 4 balls, now what do we do when a good player comes in that can run out 9? We have AAAAA? No that's silly. We need to start out with a rating based on individual skill not relative to the pool hall or city or state, one that can be used no matter where someone is. Fargo is that, but the ABCD Open, Pro rating can also be, if it's used properly. If D- is the lowest, that is a guy that can make 1 ball with ball in hand and has has no concept of position or safety play, and we move up from there to the Pro that can beat the 10 or 11 ball ghost with great position, safe and kicking. Fill in the blanks in the middle with logical progression. An Open can beat the 9 ball ghost with almost as good position. A+ may be able to beat the 9 ball ghost like the Open but with a lower score and has less kicking and position skill... and we just keep going. Easy and no need to look at how Al plays vs Bob.
The only problem with your reasoning (and again, I think it would be great if everyone was on the same page) is that SOMEONE has to determine how "skilled" each player is. It's very subjective. Al always plays against Bob, but neither Al or Bob ever play the ghost. Make sense? Real world, measurable statistics are necessary. Glad Fargo is here and I hope the letter ranking systems go away.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Another question about Fargo - I have a super common name around these parts. I played a few tournaments a few years ago but seems like I was combined with another guy's results.

Can I/Should I add an initial to my name or something? Maybe the Batman symbol? Any advice on how to avoid this as I plan on getting fairly active once restrictions are lifted.
Batman. Definitely add Batman.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The only problem with your reasoning (and again, I think it would be great if everyone was on the same page) is that SOMEONE has to determine how "skilled" each player is. It's very subjective. Al always plays against Bob, but neither Al or Bob ever play the ghost. Make sense? Real world, measurable statistics are necessary. Glad Fargo is here and I hope the letter ranking systems go away.
Wtf is wrong with you? Ghosts aren't real.
 

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
responding to a few of the things I read in this thread,

Starter Ratings - A few have commented you will get a "starter rating" when you sign up. One person mentioned 525. AF Pool Guy mentioned he has no games recorded and he sees 200 or something.

Here's the deal. Starter Ratings are not actually part of the system. The 200 is meaningless. It is like the stock photo that comes in a new wallet. As soon as games are recorded, the 200 will be replaced with an actual performance rating based just upon those games. For instance, suppose you play 10 games against an opponent rated 550. Here is what you would see depending on how many games you won. (games won out of 10 --what you see)
0. -90P
1 233P
2 350P
3 428P
4 492P
5 550P
6 608P
7 672P
8 750P
9 867P
10 940P

Winning 0 or 10 games out of 10 is the long-term performance expected of an inanimate object and a god, respectively, and goes along with ratings of minus infinity and plus infinity. -90 and +940 are as close as we display to those.

The "P" means the rating is preliminary and might be nonsense because it is based on too little information. At 200 games the P goes away and you have a Fargo Rating. The 492 you see when you win 4 of 10 against a 550 can be generalized to say that when you win 40% of the games against any opponent, you are performing 58 points below that opponent.

It is possible for somebody who might in the long haul win 4 games here to actually win 8 for this particular 10 games. If that is the case, they would see a preliminary rating of 750 even though they are not nearly that strong a player.

Many areas or leagues or organizations already have some qualitative knowledge--maybe APA ratings or A/B/C ratings or something that can be useful for these cases of unrated players or emerging players. So let's say the player we are talking about is a local "B," and B is in the ballpark of 470. There is a mechanism to input that B guess as 470, and then the "remaining games to 200 games" will be assumed to have been played at 470 speed. So this player will have 10 real games at 750 and 190 fake games at 470 and so would see "484P," a weighted average.

That 470 is a starter rating. Most players never have one. It is not part of the system and doesn't affect anyone else. Once the player has 200 games, the starter rating and the "P" are tossed away.

If you see that someone has a starter rating, you should assume it is nonsense unless you know where it came from.

Name corrections and other issues - You may email support@fargorate.com

 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Well we use to have local rating system in Arizona. 4 to 10 + 2.

4 Total Rookie

10 + 2 world Class Pro.

Rating group would meet maybe 6 times a year, adjust people up or down.

Rating were just handicapping system, most local tournament were for 7’s & 8’s and under.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well we use to have local rating system in Arizona. 4 to 10 + 2.

4 Total Rookie

10 + 2 world Class Pro.

Rating group would meet maybe 6 times a year, adjust people up or down.

Rating were just handicapping system, most local tournament were for 7’s & 8’s and under.
When they cap it at 7's or 8's and below, it pretty much shows that the handicapping doesn't work. If it worked, everyone with a rating should be able to play. I will never understand why so many tournaments are capped AND handicapped out here.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
When they cap it at 7's or 8's and below, it pretty much shows that the handicapping doesn't work. If it worked, everyone with a rating should be able to play. I will never understand why so many tournaments are capped AND handicapped out here.

Well my speculation was 7’s and under were the Bar players who drank more beer & booze.

Places like Ox Bar & Northern Lounge want those recreational players.

They paid the rent & expenses. The 9’s to 10 + 2 were not the alcohol drinkers.

Alcohol was the business Bars are in.

Northern Lounge if I recall had Tuesday Night 9 Ball Tournament, normally 15 - 25 players. Seven and under.

They would add $5.00 a player to prize fund. Alcohol sales were they reason they could.
 
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