How to win-I need help Super long post

Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I posted this in a thread but wanted to make it a topic, its reasonably written considering how sleepy I am, in one sentance I spell one word two different ways, imagine that, please help me, I dont ask often. thanks I sincerly mean that, no not with my spelling ;) :


Jay Helfert beat me playing 8 ball tonight, 7-0 7-4or5, and the other night I had a good shot but lost there too.

Tonight I had him beat the second set and let him off, i was ice cold the first set, I didnt hit a ball before we started, i knew that was at least a 4 game spot and i'm the weaker player. I was in horrible pain, at 5-0 i popped a couple pills and started to feel better, when we started the second set I chewed up a 2 pain pills and 1 muscle relaxor so they would work faster, I was almost pain free and could have went up 5-2 I think, I cant remember all I know was I was playing better than Jay-jay wont stall on me, if he ever did I wouldnt give him action, we had a mid size bet-enough to make it count, were friends and the bet will never effect our relationship but I cant play for free, I get odds on the $$$ 6:5 he still has the best of it, but damn it I had him, and I let him back in i did catch one bad roll, the pain started up again,

And thats what scares me, i took enough drugs to put a "Clean " person in a 12 coma and for me it helped for 20 minutes, I couldnt take any more, sitting here typing this hurts, i should be in bed on my laptop but i'm sick of that bed.


I let him off, sure he is a better player, but I have mental lapses in concentration that loses me games, I dont get hot and throw things I stay cool, but the lapses in concentration have hurt me for years, over all i'm still a winning player because when I was broke I picked my spots carefully, now in the past year i'm a losing player, i'm taking hard games, i cover my loses with rail bets. But I want to win. John Morton said "You just have to find a way to win"; to me in 90 or 91, I had that for a while. I'm not nervious about the $$$, our bet is so small that if that made me nervious I'd really be pissed. But I out played him for long enough he had to dig his way out, one bad roll and a funny hit helped but still I got weak, my concentration was fading in and out. The pain came back and thats a distraction-it wasnt bad enough to cost the set, right now I couldnt play we finished 45 minutes ago.


I cant rely on drugs to play and wont, but assuming I feel fine, I have to figure out a way to keep the focus, i have read all the books, on sports phsycology and spelling books too . Seriously WTF do I need to do, I have a quite mind no noise, I dont get the "what if's" I dont feel pressure, i dont really look at the score, I dont play to lose for sympathy(I knew I guy who loved to lose so he could feel sorry for him self) the amount of the bet dosent matter, if I beat him 300 sets in a row bragging about it isnt important. I'm not a ego player who says " oh yeah I robbed him" i might joke about that. but that dosent distract me. I have played alot of years and have found that groove of winning when I had my chance at a high % but more often than not I lose when I have my chance. I just cant find the solution, words are the tool that will convey the solution into my game, but I have to find the root of the problem. I'm not embarassed to lose.


I'm not suppost to beat Jay all the time(maybe 38 out of 100 sets ) but I should beat him when I put myself into the spot to win tonight by playing good-I just cant hold that gear(and playing someone like Jay thats suicide), I didnt get lucky to get in the winning spot, I out played him the 2nd set and set myself up to win, I didnt let up. I played better than he did until it mattered, then I didnt(this is the root question, I wasnt playing attention to anything but the balls). Again I didnt feel any pressure and when I do I still respond the same way or play better. I have played for $$$ over 2,000 times so it aint new to me. I'm not mad I lost I dont like it, but I sure as hell would like to "Find a way to win" like RudeDog told me years ago, I can sometimes but not often enough.


All the practice in the world, having a perfect stroke, solid fundementals means shit if you cant use them when you need to, I still hit the ball fine but something aint working.

any ideas???

thanks

and yes I'm gonna play him again. I might play better than some people but I cant find a way to win, this whole post is about winning not who plays better, who wins better is what counts, and thats something over looked, people say "SVB plays better" or "Archer plays better" when was the last time you heard "------ Wins better"?. Look at the Morra/Bergman match Bregman wins better, I'm knot knocking Morra he is my friend and I have alot of respect for him, i'm just using a recent example. He plays great but not when it counted, i feel he lost for a differnt reason than I did, thats what bothers me I know why he lost I asked him it was because of ******* and he said yeah, I know why I been in that spot. of course I was told by someone here "I'm a recreational B player and was wrong on so many levels" but Morra said I was right, so much for me being a recoretional B player-what ever that means...

All the practice means shit if you cant win better, who teaches winning? other than the inner game of tennis etc, i'm done with books. Seriously who teaches winning, not shot selection or pendulem stroke but what counts HOW TO WIN!!!! the rest is bullshit when you dont win when yyou should, SVB playes 95% of the patterns in 10B I do because I have played over 20 years, One Pocket is a different thng.


I dont lose everytime I play but I dont win when I should too often. I dont expect to beat Jay in the long run-he plays better but man to lose when it was there puzzles me, i'm not upset, this is along post because i'm looking for answeres I never saw before.

Fatboy
 
Fatboy said:
I posted this in a thread but wanted to make it a topic, its reasonably written considering how sleepy I am, in one sentance I spell one word two different ways, imagine that, please help me, I dont ask often. thanks I sincerly mean that, no not with my spelling ;) :


Jay Helfert beat me playing 8 ball tonight, 7-0 7-4or5, and the other night I had a good shot but lost there too.

Tonight I had him beat the second set and let him off, i was ice cold the first set, I didnt hit a ball before we started, i knew that was at least a 4 game spot and i'm the weaker player. I was in horrible pain, at 5-0 i popped a couple pills and started to feel better, when we started the second set I chewed up a 2 pain pills and 1 muscle relaxor so they would work faster, I was almost pain free and could have went up 5-2 I think, I cant remember all I know was I was playing better than Jay-jay wont stall on me, if he ever did I wouldnt give him action, we had a mid size bet-enough to make it count, were friends and the bet will never effect our relationship but I cant play for free, I get odds on the $$$ 6:5 he still has the best of it, but damn it I had him, and I let him back in i did catch one bad roll, the pain started up again,

And thats what scares me, i took enough drugs to put a "Clean " person in a 12 coma and for me it helped for 20 minutes, I couldnt take any more, sitting here typing this hurts, i should be in bed on my laptop but i'm sick of that bed.


I let him off, sure he is a better player, but I have mental lapses in concentration that loses me games, I dont get hot and throw things I stay cool, but the lapses in concentration have hurt me for years, over all i'm still a winning player because when I was broke I picked my spots carefully, now in the past year i'm a losing player, i'm taking hard games, i cover my loses with rail bets. But I want to win. John Morton said "You just have to find a way to win"; to me in 90 or 91, I had that for a while. I'm not nervious about the $$$, our bet is so small that if that made me nervious I'd really be pissed. But I out played him for long enough he had to dig his way out, one bad roll and a funny hit helped but still I got weak, my concentration was fading in and out. The pain came back and thats a distraction-it wasnt bad enough to cost the set, right now I couldnt play we finished 45 minutes ago.


I cant rely on drugs to play and wont, but assuming I feel fine, I have to figure out a way to keep the focus, i have read all the books, on sports phsycology and spelling books too . Seriously WTF do I need to do, I have a quite mind no noise, I dont get the "what if's" I dont feel pressure, i dont really look at the score, I dont play to lose for sympathy(I knew I guy who loved to lose so he could feel sorry for him self) the amount of the bet dosent matter, if I beat him 300 sets in a row bragging about it isnt important. I'm not a ego player who says " oh yeah I robbed him" i might joke about that. but that dosent distract me. I have played alot of years and have found that groove of winning when I had my chance at a high % but more often than not I lose when I have my chance. I just cant find the solution, words are the tool that will convey the solution into my game, but I have to find the root of the problem. I'm not embarassed to lose.


I'm not suppost to beat Jay all the time(maybe 38 out of 100 sets ) but I should beat him when I put myself into the spot to win tonight by playing good-I just cant hold that gear(and playing someone like Jay thats suicide), I didnt get lucky to get in the winning spot, I out played him the 2nd set and set myself up to win, I didnt let up. I played better than he did until it mattered, then I didnt(this is the root question, I wasnt playing attention to anything but the balls). Again I didnt feel any pressure and when I do I still respond the same way or play better. I have played for $$$ over 2,000 times so it aint new to me. I'm not mad I lost I dont like it, but I sure as hell would like to "Find a way to win" like RudeDog told me years ago, I can sometimes but not often enough.


All the practice in the world, having a perfect stroke, solid fundementals means shit if you cant use them when you need to, I still hit the ball fine but something aint working.

any ideas???

thanks

and yes I'm gonna play him again. I might play better than some people but I cant find a way to win, this whole post is about winning not who plays better, who wins better is what counts, and thats something over looked, people say "SVB plays better" or "Archer plays better" when was the last time you heard "------ Wins better"?. Look at the Morra/Bergman match Bregman wins better, I'm knot knocking Morra he is my friend and I have alot of respect for him, i'm just using a recent example. He plays great but not when it counted, i feel he lost for a differnt reason than I did, thats what bothers me I know why he lost I asked him it was because of ******* and he said yeah, I know why I been in that spot. of course I was told by someone here "I'm a recreational B player and was wrong on so many levels" but Morra said I was right, so much for me being a recoretional B player-what ever that means...

All the practice means shit if you cant win better, who teaches winning? other than the inner game of tennis etc, i'm done with books. Seriously who teaches winning, not shot selection or pendulem stroke but what counts HOW TO WIN!!!! the rest is bullshit when you dont win when yyou should, SVB playes 95% of the patterns in 10B I do because I have played over 20 years, One Pocket is a different thng.


I dont lose everytime I play but I dont win when I should too often. I dont expect to beat Jay in the long run-he plays better but man to lose when it was there puzzles me, i'm not upset, this is along post because i'm looking for answeres I never saw before.

Fatboy
Click to expand...
Have Jay give you 2 on the wire in a race to 7 is the only advice I can give you. ;)
 
It might be the pain killers

Wow,

There is no way I could play on the drugs you just described. That possibly might be the hiccup with closing out the match. I play with pain everyday of my life. I have learned to mentally block alot of it out, but it took years to teach my brain how to do it. I feel for ya FB. I know the frustration must be very hard.
Also, arent you and Jay good friends? Maybe the friendship is inadvertantly playing with your mental edge when you play him. I really dont know, but that did pop into my thoughts of possibilities.
 
Fast Lenny said:
Have Jay give you 2 on the wire in a race to 7 is the only advice I can give you. ;)
Click to expand...

thats not winning thats negoitating a spot, were friends the $$ is small, and your right when I'm gonns fire my $$$I want the best of it, but thats not what this is about , thanks though
 
Milo said:
Wow,

There is no way I could play on the drugs you just described. That possibly might be the hiccup with closing out the match. I play with pain everyday of my life. I have learned to mentally block alot of it out, but it took years to teach my brain how to do it. I feel for ya FB. I know the frustration must be very hard.
Also, arent you and Jay good friends? Maybe the friendship is inadvertantly playing with your mental edge when you play him. I really dont know, but that did pop into my thoughts of possibilities.
Click to expand...


i couldnt get out of bed with out some meds, i take little as possible, they dont effect my coordiantion, i saw the balls I missed, and also the tough shots I made, when I play I play to win, no matter who it is, yes Jay is one of my best friends but I will crusify him everytime I can, after the game then were friends again. what I stated above I used jay because it just happened but it has happened with a number of people, since my come back and before, I play the balls, i have enough experience to block out emotional things like beating my friend, thanks though,
 
Fatboy said:
thats not winning thats negoitating a spot, were friends the $$ is small, and your right when I'm gonns fire my $$$I want the best of it, but thats not what this is about , thanks though
Click to expand...
Well bud,I think you should get a good nights rest more often,good massages,perhaps acupuncture.I also have back problems and refuse to take pain meds because they make me feel horrible,almost hollow inside,stopping at green lights and running red lights,I certainly couldnt play pool on them.I honestly believe if you want to get your game up get away from the meds,they are highly addictive and dont make you feel better in the long run and your internal organs will thank you.Im sure you have your good days where the meds are taking care of the problem and your functioning well and others where your numb and out of it. :cool:
 
Fatboy said:
i couldnt get out of bed with out some meds, i take little as possible, they dont effect my coordiantion, i saw the balls I missed, and also the tough shots I made, when I play I play to win, no matter who it is, yes Jay is one of my best friends but I will crusify him everytime I can, after the game then were friends again. what I stated above I used jay because it just happened but it has happened with a number of people, since my come back and before, I play the balls, i have enough experience to block out emotional things like beating my friend, thanks though,
Click to expand...

Eric....you're not supposed to play like me!!!! :eek: ;) :p

On a more serious note...when I am conscious of my focus waning, I have found that stepping back from the table for a moment, or before you re-approach it for your next inning...you find a spot somewhere in the place where you are playing, and focus on it for no longer than 30 seconds....something like a sign, a pretty girl at the bar or on the rail, hell, it could be a light fixture for that matter...LoL. Then head into and focus for your next shot, or series of shots.

The idea here is much the same as 'clearing the palette' when eating a fine meal. You need to clear out the previous, in order to have a clear base to begin again. I hope this is making a bit of sense. Kinda like clearing out your 'Inbox' to make room for more.

This has worked out well for me whenever I remember to slow down and use it! LoL!!

As a somewhat related side note...because you are conscious of the fact that you begin to lose your focus, it is, in all liklihood, eating at your confidence level, without you even realizing it. If it's frustrating you, then it is affecting your confidence at the table...just more food for thought. :)

Lisa
 
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I think you said it best, when you mentioned finding that gear.

Maybe focusing on finding that higher gear and sustaining that gear will be the key to success. Don't focus on winning or the top flight player that is watching you, and waiting for you to miss a shot, or make a mistake.

Finding that gear is different for everyone. Sometimes, it is a simple as focusing on the shot at hand, and thinking 3 or 4 balls ahead is what is throwing you out of gear. Sometimes, thinking about something unrelated to pool can trigger you to get into the zone (dead stroke). Like maybe thinking about shooting a gun at a target range. It may put you into a higher state of mind that will spill over to your game.

It's like Michael Jordan and his getting into the "zone". That heightened state of mind/body that enables us to perform at our best.
There are things that trigger it, and Mike was very good at triggering it.
 
You know, Fatboy, somtimes it just doesn't matter what you do the guy comes back and bites ya in the ass. If I had a dollar for everytime it's happened to me and every time I've done it to someone I'd be able to retire. Personally, I don't think the meds helped and you saying that they don't affect you is flat out denial. I'm not against you, big man, just telling it straight. Also, with the mental game, your concious mind may be in total control but that subconcious can be a beotch in more ways than one. You may have inadvertantly pulled back when you hit the hill. Subconciously played it safe because you knew you had it if you didn't screw up. In all likelihood you backed off a little when you got a good lead and figured you had it. Then he wins a game and you're like "It's alright, it's only one game, I got this" then you subconciously back off again and before you know it it's hill/hill and you got a sweat going.

Dude, you want to win you gotta play that remaining game like it's the first. Take all the risks you would normally take. You may even want to tape a few of these sets, since they're friendly, and actually watch what you do and how you play each and every game. I'd bet my ass you're being careful not to lose towards the end. You can't do that. You gotta keep the intensity 100% all the way to the end.

On the other hand, if he's a better player than you then there's really nothing wrong with him coming back and winning. That's what he's expected to do. Somtimes we just get out shot, man.

May I ask what your pain is and what causes it?
MULLY
 
How did you lose? What happened? Did you lose because of your mistakes or because he won?
 
Mully... He as had extreme back pain for the last several years and had multiple operations.
 
JimS said:
How did you lose? What happened? Did you lose because of your mistakes or because he won?
Click to expand...

I think he stated somewhere in the post, that he didn't stay in that gear when he had the opportunity to win the race.

Or at least, that was my take on what I read.
 
JimS said:
Mully... He as had extreme back pain for the last several years and had multiple operations.
Click to expand...


Sorry to hear that. I've had slipped discs in my back before and I know exactly how bad it can be. Fatboy, is your screen name in any way reflective of how you're built? If so losing weight can help a lot with that. And hey, dude, I once weighed 375lbs so I know exactly how it is. Good luck with the back, man. I'll be hoping you get that straightened out before you work out the kinks in your game. Not too many things suck worse than back pain. And I know I got on ya a little about the meds in the last post but I can fully understand taking something to ease that shit, man. I've pulled my back out 3 times before. The last one was so bad that it literally took me 30 minutes to cross one room in my apartment to get to the toilet and back. I was on crutches for 2 weeks. Back pain su-u-u-u-cks.
MULLY
 
JimS said:
Mully... He as had extreme back pain for the last several years and had multiple operations.
Click to expand...
Tuff call, Mon! What are you gonna do? Well known facts that pain pills may pain go away and make you fuzzy. You might be used to it (read: tolerance), but the effects are there.

I say, give him the George Foreman- take the blows and give some back. Youz win some and lose some...sometimes youz the hammer, sometimes the nail!
 
here it is without the sugar coating

Fatboy,

If you put yourself into the same physical condition you are in playing pool and test physical coordination and decision making with the back pain and pills over the course of a few hours you will find that you are giving Jay a huge spot playing him in this condition. To reasonably expect to beat Jay with the unavoidable handicaps you spot him you need to be several levels higher in play than he is. Unless you think that your pool skills are great enough right now today that you could crush Jay at his skill level without the health issues, you are probably giving him far too large of a spot.

I was taking a fraction of the pills you take. Cutting the doses in half has made a very noticeable difference in alertness, 24/7. Most of the time I didn't feel drugged out when I was taking the higher levels but not taking as much is the difference between daylight and dark.

Too, we can only function well over a period of hours with a certain level of pain. Once pain gets above that level it is the 800 pound gorilla in our world. Impossible to bring our best to the pool table or anywhere else for more than a few seconds or minutes at most.

Bottom line, Jay has too big of a spot. That wouldn't stop me from still trying though and I don't expect it to stop you. I and everyone else in this thread are all looking at things from a distance, you are there. Go get'm!

Hu
 
IMO , winning is all mental by the end of a match.

When it comes down to the wire , I'd ask these few questions :

Do you want to win or to not to lose ?

Are you thinking about the last time you closed out a match or the last time you let one get away ?

Are you going for your shots or playing careful/safe/smart etc ?

Do you get most of your bad rolls at the end of a match , particulary when your are up ?


I think the mistake most people make is not 'winning' the match but thinking they should win. Often added with visualizing the ways it can get away and with a dash of 'bad luck' sprinkled in for good measure.
 
Maybe instead of reading books on Sports Pschology you should just go to a Sports Phychologist for a few sessions to help sort out the issue.

I know Tiger Woods has gone, George St Pierre, and many Olympic and Professional atheletes include sport phychology sessions in their practice regimens.

Who knows you might get back into bodybuilding as some physiotherapy for your back.

(My spelling sucks, sorry)
 
From what Ive read, on this site, from you, about pool.....

You arent afraid to lose but you are most certainly afraid to win.
 
I posted my response to this on the "Me And Fatboy" thread. You can find what I had to say there. Thanks.
 
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