The angle was steep enough that I was considering all other options. If the 7 were hanging, it would have been a lot more tempting but to send the cueball wildly around the table for little reward seemed a bit reckless.
How Would You Play This? 11/24/09
- Thread starter Jude Rosenstock
- Start date
The angle was steep enough that I was considering all other options. If the 7 were hanging, it would have been a lot more tempting but to send the cueball wildly around the table for little reward seemed a bit reckless.
That almost looks like a perfect half ball hit shot to carom the 9 ball and play the 6 ball relatively safe.
Also you could cross the 6 ball and bank it up table freezing the cue ball on the 9 ball, hiding behind the 8 ball.
Some of these shots you have to see them on the table to be sure what you would do. I might cut the 6 ball if I can see the edge.
JoeyA
You nailed it.
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And on a second note, check the contact point on this diagram. it is not the same as your shot. Yours is basically a stop shot. Mine drives through the right half of the 6, which adds contact induced right english, which, with the thinner hit, "turns" the 6 ball into the line I diagrammed at first.
Russ
And on a second note, check the contact point on this diagram. it is not the same as your shot. Yours is basically a stop shot. Mine drives through the right half of the 6, which adds contact induced right english, which, with the thinner hit, "turns" the 6 ball into the line I diagrammed at first.
Russ
You know what? I'm not infront of a table right now so maybe your shot is possible. Better wording would be - playing such shots are simply not adviseable. You get a double-kiss, you're done. Of course there are plenty of times a player is forced to test the limits of the equipment, I don't think this scenario is one of them.
I know you're a very good player, but I don't think in this case it was a great choice myself.
Chris
I had plenty of reasons (which I forgot to include). You can consider them. First, I liked how hitting the left half of the 9ball would guarantee I'd leave the cueball behind the 8. I also liked the idea of taking a stab at winning outright by making the 9. The third reason, although I failed to get it, I liked the placement of the 7ball which could have acted as a blocker had the 6 drifted closer to the rail.
I have pretty good cue ball control, but I hate those long caroms - I can't seem to get the contact right when I'm thinking about the carom. I played in New York a few times and the tables had generous pockets but the ones we're on out here are 4" - so long caroms and long combinations are really iffy. On our tables were playing a lot of safeties and the quality of the safety actually doesn't have to be that great in order to leave really difficult shots.
My main concern would have been losing the cue ball and leaving an open shot on the 6. The carom on the 9, to me and my skills on our tables, would be maybe 1 in 5 or even less, so I probably would just play the best safe I could and let the other guy mess up.
I gather you made the 9 - if so, it was a great shot! :wink: I had a tournmaent a few years ago hill/hill and I was playing well. I broke and ran to the 6, overshot position on a 7 ball (adrenaline) , leaving a carom on the 9 or a safe - I went for the carom, missed by a mile and left the 3 ball out to my very happy opponent.
Chris
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I set it up and shot it afew times on my 9-foot gold crown with the balls in the exact same spot relative to the diamonds and the shot is far more natural as diagramed to do what Tate and Russ did then trying to thin the 6 to the degree that makes the 6 angle back towards the 7 ball and still hold the cueball behind the 8-ball which is barely more then a single diamond off the rail itself.
It is very easy to make the 6 go up mid table on this shot and get a full ball hook behind the 8-ball like Russ showed. If you try to make the 9 you are likely to lose the cueball and come out past the 8 and sell out the game.
It is very easy to make the 6 go up mid table on this shot and get a full ball hook behind the 8-ball like Russ showed. If you try to make the 9 you are likely to lose the cueball and come out past the 8 and sell out the game.
I've been practicing these inside english throw shots a lot lately because it's so easy to kill the cue ball speed and change natural shot angles. It's great for safety play.
Here's a safety I diagrammed where it looks impossible, but it's a lot easier than it looks. You hit the cue ball center with inside (left) english - just a hair off center point contact. It barely misses the double kiss. The object ball can actually cross over the center line. The speed has to be just enough to get the object ball down to the opposite rail.
Chris
Just tried this... took about 4 times before I hit it about perfect (OB within a diamond of the Brunswick). Good info, thanks TATE.
That's what I would have done (attempted to do
) but a little more right to get the OB short of the side, and bring the CB to the opposite rail for either at best a safe behind the 8, or an off angle ... double kiss bank, or long cross corner on the 6......... all while dropping the Cheese.....td
Jude,
This is an example of the type of shots I practice to get the follow carom "feel" down.
I know it doesn't look high percentage, but I was demonstrating these shots to another good player that had never seen this type of safety before, and was either freezing to the 7, or getting within an inch of the back of the 7, about 75% of the time, with a VERY difficult shot left the rest of the time.
I highly recommend finding a copy of Byrne's book and checking out the system. I made an instant convert of the dude I demonstrated it for. Byrne's does not mention using it for safes, but to make balls, but I extended the idea to include safety play. I have seen the Filipinos hit shots like this, and I would be very surprised if they are not using something very close to this system.
Once you work with it for a few days, you start seeing some very wild possibilities.. The key is using a consistent follow stroke (with same tip position every time..) and picking your distant aiming point properly to come into the highest percentage "safety line" off the last rail.
Short Bus Russ ..Horrible C- player who needs the 3 out and the breaks from everyone....But talks a good game..
This is an example of the type of shots I practice to get the follow carom "feel" down.
I know it doesn't look high percentage, but I was demonstrating these shots to another good player that had never seen this type of safety before, and was either freezing to the 7, or getting within an inch of the back of the 7, about 75% of the time, with a VERY difficult shot left the rest of the time.
I highly recommend finding a copy of Byrne's book and checking out the system. I made an instant convert of the dude I demonstrated it for. Byrne's does not mention using it for safes, but to make balls, but I extended the idea to include safety play. I have seen the Filipinos hit shots like this, and I would be very surprised if they are not using something very close to this system.
Once you work with it for a few days, you start seeing some very wild possibilities.. The key is using a consistent follow stroke (with same tip position every time..) and picking your distant aiming point properly to come into the highest percentage "safety line" off the last rail.
Short Bus Russ ..Horrible C- player who needs the 3 out and the breaks from everyone....But talks a good game..
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Jude,
This is an example of the type of shots I practice to get the follow carom "feel" down.
I know it doesn't look high percentage, but I was demonstrating these shots to another good player that had never seen this type of safety before, and was either freezing to the 7, or getting within an inch of the back of the 7, about 75% of the time, with a VERY difficult shot left the rest of the time.
I highly recommend finding a copy of Byrne's book and checking out the system. I made an instant convert of the dude I demonstrated it for. Byrne's does not mention using it for safes, but to make balls, but I extended the idea to include safety play. I have seen the Filipinos hit shots like this, and I would be very surprised if they are not using something very close to this system.
Once you work with it for a few days, you start seeing some very wild possibilities.. The key is using a consistent follow stroke (with same tip position every time..) and picking your distant aiming point properly to come into the highest percentage "safety line" off the last rail.
Short Bus Russ ..Horrible C- player who needs the 3 out and the breaks from everyone....But talks a good game..
The safety you diagram here isn't low-percentage at all. In fact, it has a lot of good things going for it. For starters, it appears the 7-ball may block the possibility of a scratch occurring so that's out of the equation. Second, the target area is not THAT small. You can hit the first rail in a lot of different spots and end up behind that 7. Third is object-ball placement. Even if you don't get the hook, you're moving the 6-ball into a good spot.
This is exactly what I was thinking....
Tate this is exactly what I was thinking.
Play the six at the nine focusing on controlling the CB and putting it behind the seven.
You could make the nine and if you do happen to miss the CB shape behind the seven, you could also get the six safe behind the eight.
It's a multi way shot.
Jaden
Tate this is exactly what I was thinking.
Play the six at the nine focusing on controlling the CB and putting it behind the seven.
You could make the nine and if you do happen to miss the CB shape behind the seven, you could also get the six safe behind the eight.
It's a multi way shot.
Jaden
I think playing the 6 on the 9 in this way is a bad shot, and I will try to clarify why..
If you hit it good, but don't make it, you hang up the 9.
You have to move the CB 10 feet, and if you go either 6 inches too short, or 6 inches too long, you are giving up a shot. Not only this..if you use a hair too much draw/follow/left/right, you won't even have a chance to get behind the 7. This shot has to be hit perfect to get behind the 7.
If you do get behind the 7, because of the approach angle on this safety, you opponent will have a relatively easy kick at the 6 (with a 9 ball hanging over the pocket).
Either the 1 rail or 2 rail kicks will send the 6 ball to an area where position to the 7 is going to be challenging.
If you don't get behind the 7, but do hide the 6 behind the 8, you opponent will simply kick one rail behind the 6 and carom towards the hanging 9. Even if he does not make it, you will likely be on the rail, and 5-8 feet away from the 6, with a very difficult position play ahead of you.
I'm not trying to criticize your choice, just to make you aware that the safety aspect of your shot does little if you don't make the 9.
I like Jude's choice much better than this, because it vacates the 6 from the area. IMO, anything that leaves the 6 near the 9 is very risky.
Russ
I like his shot too... Just not crazy about letting the CB get off the rail, tho.
But for someone who knows their half ball caroms well, I think you can rely on consistent CB placement near the back of the 8, if not directly behind it.
Grady would like this shot!
Russ
Actually, my thought process BEGAN with not leaving the 6 near the 9ball. I mean, leaving a possible combination shouldn't be one's biggest fear but if it can be avoided, you should do so.