How Would You Play This? 7/7/09
- Thread starter Jude Rosenstock
- Start date
Jude,
Could you elaborate on why you avoided the 1-5 combination? It doesn't appear to be that difficult of a combination. The 5-ball is very close to the long rail and less than a diamond away from the pocket. The 1-ball is less than a diamond away from the 5 and has a modest cut angle with the 5.
The hardest part about this combination may be controlling the cue ball so that you have a follow-up shot on the 1 after you pocket the 5.
(In an earlier post, Spidey indicated that he was able to execute the combination without much difficulty. If I get a chance later today, I'll try the combination too to see how difficult it really is.)
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As stated in my original post, I'm playing on tight equipment. I'm simply going to avoid just about every combination presented to me that isn't hanging.
Post a video?!? I'm lucky I know how to use a keyboard! You'll note I didn't respond with my OWN cuetable diagram. I can't even figure that thing out!!
But I will say this... I'll give it a whirl my next time at the table and let you know qith utmost honesty how easy it was to pull off (if I even can).
No BSing. If I can't do it, I'll be sure to tell ya and admit that Neil may have been right in his assessment of this shot.
That's cool. Reading pool diagrams can be a bit difficult. You lose a lot of perspective and it really takes a lot of imagination. What's more, equipment plays a huge role in most discussions. I know at the poolroom I play in, I'm simply going to get way too much rebound to consider rolling up on the 5. The rails are significantly livelier than any other room I've ever played in so I have to account for that. However, given that cruel fact about the equipment I'm subjected to, I'd venture to say that most tables will rebound enough to make a freeze on the 5 difficult.
The one's position is at about 1.7 diamonds. The position of the five is at about .8 diamonds. To get this safety, therefore, you need to follow the cue ball apporiximately one foot while not hitting the one hard enough for it to travel more than two and a half feet, which would a guarantee a see on it. It takes more than a slow roll to get that much follow. At very least, I'd call it difficult to pull this one off, and I'd guess it's a twenty to one shot that a "C" player would pull it off on the first attempt.
No way you'll be able to hold up that cue ball going OB first. You'll have to hit that too hard. But if you can manage to get rail first with lots of low-left, you might have something.
Edit: just realzied how many pages there already were to this thread. lol...
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I'm sorry I missed this thread yesterday. Good stuff. That's what I get for actually having to work yesterday.
Jude, you really need to stop being scared to death of tight tables. You are way too good a player to hate them. You certainly play enough 14.1 these days that you should make that combo.
Jude, you really need to stop being scared to death of tight tables. You are way too good a player to hate them. You certainly play enough 14.1 these days that you should make that combo.
Well, it's not just tight equipment, it's that table. Table 4 is simply unpredictable. Table 11 isn't terribly tight and much more consistent.
I think this position presented calls for defense on any equipment. The combo can't be made at soft speed, and the cue ball will likely run into the six ball, which complicates the shape onto the one. In addition, moving the six may tie something else up or leave the six in an unfavorable position. To that, I'll add that the final position of the one is not that predictable, as the thickness of the hit on the five, even assuming the combo is made, cannot be judged with 100% precision. Even if you make the combo, the one will often end up on the bottom rail. Too many variables for my taste. In my view, the safety you played, if executed, produces a win far more often than the combo.
If the combo were the one-nine, rather than the one-five, I'd play the combo, concurring with Chris that your chances of making it are pretty good.
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IMO the suggestion to roll the one onto the five ball doesn't gain you much if you happen to get a ball in hand.
This setup will invite your opponent to soft kick at the one or give up ball in hand. If you get ball in hand You'll probably be looking for a way to play another safe because the one will not be playable to a pocket. Your opponent will also have the option to tie up other balls to prevent an easy runout.
If the one and five lines up to a combo then you might be in trouble if it gets kicked in.
A good player will sacrifice the first foul even in a game with the three foul rule. This is why I like the option to put the one up table and leave some distance and possibly get a hook behind the six ball. (as suggested by sjm)
This setup will invite your opponent to soft kick at the one or give up ball in hand. If you get ball in hand You'll probably be looking for a way to play another safe because the one will not be playable to a pocket. Your opponent will also have the option to tie up other balls to prevent an easy runout.
If the one and five lines up to a combo then you might be in trouble if it gets kicked in.
A good player will sacrifice the first foul even in a game with the three foul rule. This is why I like the option to put the one up table and leave some distance and possibly get a hook behind the six ball. (as suggested by sjm)
Ditto ......:thumbup:
It is a tough position to make the combo and assure a shot on the one. If you feel good about it at the time I can see playing it since you should run out here if you can make the combo and have a good shot on the one. If there's any doubt then you should absolutely play safe. It's very tricky with the 6 ball where it is.
I really like the safe Jude played here. It's what I call an aggressive safe.
Right on, Chris!
Well, I play "aggressive safes" because players like you warrant them. It's ridiculous. Things were so much more simple when we were C players.
If Jude didnt feel good about the 1-5 combo due to equipment, wouldnt the 1-9 be THAT much more risky? If you hang the 5, you still have a chance of coming back to the table. If you hang the 9, not so much.
To me, I would play the combo here either way as I would feel I would personally have a better chance than playing a good safe. But if you dont feel good about the 1-5, I dont know how you would feel good about the 1-9.
If you make the 1 - 9 you don't have to worry about playing position for the 1. Your focus would be on pocketing the combo making it much easier.
This is also how I see it. The combo becomes easier if you don't need to play a specific stroke and speed to get the subsequent shape on the one.
I agree. Also, if you're playing the 1-9, then you can play to hide the CB, in case you hang the 9.
Eric