how would you play this?

Njhustler1

Njhustler1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pardon the crudeness of my picture but for some reason my browser doesnt like using the wei-table.

this shot came up in my 14.1 league match last night and i really wasnt sure what to do with it. Basically i didnt play great position and got on the wrong side of the object ball. If i play the cue off the object ball and into the rail then back(option A), there's no good way (that i know of) to give the cueball enough speed to break up the pack enough to guarantee i'm going to have a shot after. the other option (B) is to just play a safe and leave the opponent on the back rail. My defensive game is pretty strong so i'm working to improve my "offensiveness" when i get the chance, especially if i've got a good run going and my opponent on the ropes. is this a good time to be offensive and if so what's the best way to execute???? thanks!
 

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That shot you have to hit one of the corner balls in the rack to have a chance at a shot. Looking at your diagram I would try on clip the top of the rack as the breakball is high on the rack, maybe just with dead follow or just a tad of inside and medium speed.
 
You have to go for plan A, the break shot. Take your chances from there. If you don't have a shot chances are you can play safe of the foot rail and back to the top side rail.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
You have to go for plan A, the break shot.
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IMO, this is a tough situation. Your likelihood of making the ball and getting a shot from "A" is small. Your likelihood of emerging the winner of the safety battle that ensues from "B" is small.

I rarely get a shot from an "A" break (usually stuck to the rack), which means I will be forced to scrape the rack and go up table and leave a few loose balls around the rack for my opponent to play safe off of.

From shot "B", your opponent will just play you safe behind the stack, which puts you at a disadvantage.

Weighing the options, I would still go for "A" with the sole intent to strike the top ball (nearest the spot) and get a shot on a ball from the far side of the stack. If you fail to open the rack, you can still play a good safe. If you try to hit the bottom corner, you'll likely get stuck to the rack or miss the ball due to excessive spin.
 
mosconiac said:
IMO, this is a tough situation. Your likelihood of making the ball and getting a shot from "A" is small. Your likelihood of emerging the winner of the safety battle that ensues from "B" is small.

I rarely get a shot from an "A" break (usually stuck to the rack), which means I will be forced to scrape the rack and go up table and leave a few loose balls around the rack for my opponent to play safe off of.

From shot "B", your opponent will just play you safe behind the stack, which puts you at a disadvantage.

Weighing the options, I would still go for "A" with the sole intent to strike the top ball (nearest the spot) and get a shot on a ball from the far side of the stack. If you fail to open the rack, you can still play a good safe. If you try to hit the bottom corner, you'll likely get stuck to the rack or miss the ball due to excessive spin.
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Mosconiac, I'm not sure I see your point about "B". From my view, the opponent will have no choice but to intentionally foul, going two rails with the cue behind the rack (just to move something). At this point, there is basically zero equity for either player. I definitely wouldn't consider the original poster to be any sort of an underdog from shooting "B" (though not a favorite either).

I would go for shot "A" as long as I didn't have to force it too much. If absolutely wailing away is still going to barely give you enough speed to hit the rack, then it's not worth trying. However, that not being the case (and it doesn't look like it is here), I only have two goals on this shot. The first is to make the ball. The second is to hit it very hard. The biggest mistake I see on this shot is people not hitting it hard enough. They'll often get stuck to one side, opening balls along the other side and the bottom. This is often a difficult spot to play safe from.

If you play "A", you have to commit to it - put full focus into making the ball, and blast away. This is not a shot you're looking to finesse.

- Steve
 
If you play "A", you have to commit to it - put full focus into making the ball, and blast away. This is not a shot you're looking to finesse.

- Steve[/QUOTE]

Very well said stevie, i couldnt have said it better myself !!!!!
 
Steve Lipsky said:
I would go for shot "A" as long as I didn't have to force it too much. If absolutely wailing away is still going to barely give you enough speed to hit the rack, then it's not worth trying. However, that not being the case (and it doesn't look like it is here), I only have two goals on this shot. The first is to make the ball. The second is to hit it very hard. The biggest mistake I see on this shot is people not hitting it hard enough. They'll often get stuck to one side, opening balls along the other side and the bottom. This is often a difficult spot to play safe from.

If you play "A", you have to commit to it - put full focus into making the ball, and blast away. This is not a shot you're looking to finesse.

- Steve
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Steve:

would you attempt to hit one of the top balls? any english needed? top or bottom?
 
dmgwalsh said:
Steve:

would you attempt to hit one of the top balls? any english needed? top or bottom?
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Hi Dennis. The first thing I did was go to cuetable, to diagram it. According to the dimensions in NJhustler's pic, cuetable turns it into this:

CueTable Help



The offensive shot isn't even worth talking about here (not enough angle to go one rail and too much to go two rails), though I'm not sure I'd have played safe in the same way the original poster is thinking. I'd probably look to pocket the object ball and then play safe off the side of the rack near the 13.

That said, if the situation looks more like this (as the original poster was imagining it perhaps):

CueTable Help



then I will definitely look to play the shot. I'll use top (or top left, depending on the angle) and hit it quite hard. All focus is on making the ball. If while lining up I am not 90% confident on making the shot at a hard speed, I may end up taking some speed off and trying to hit one of the corners (13-10 or the 15). Still, the shot would have to be inordinately difficult for me to consider this. It's just not good, offensive straight pool in my opinion. I'd be accepting that I am probably not going to get to continue my run.

- Steve
 
Just a note, I think my cueball placement in the first diagram was off. It should be closer to the rack, which would yield more angle. With the breakball that high, though, it looks like a tough hit. I'll try and set it up tonight.
 
That second shot with more angle looks pretty fine imo. I guess I'll just second selftaut, drill it with top and try hard to catch the topmost ball, preferably the upper half of it. Asking for a lot of accuracy from a cut going into the rail and back out, but the shot is easy enough that it seems like a free attempt. Just make sure you err on the side of missing the rack entirely vs. hitting it too low cuz you're guaranteed to get buried.

I've tried this and missed the rack then come back into it off the 2nd rail, getting stuck in the predictable fashion and executing an excellent safety for Team B.
 
maybe we can kind of reverse engineer this shot. let's say i play shot B and make a perfect safety, where I leave the cue in the exact middle of the back rail.

when you're left with this shot, from the back rail, and the complete triangle of balls is at the other end (since the ball you made gets spotted) whats the best for your opponent to play it from here?

Personally, I'd just try and skim a ball on the end of the stack and send the cueball back two rails back to where i hit it from. even still that aint easy. is there a better option here for the opponent from this position?
 
I might be a little confused on this. Are we stuck on the center of the foot rail (where you rack) or the head rail?

If I'm stuck at the top of the head rail, facing a full rack, the traditional safety is to kick 2 rails and send the cue ball behind the pack to pretty much the middle of the bottom row of balls.

If I'm stuck on the other rail, and I'm not dead center on it, I try to roll into the second ball from the corner... mostly the center of it or favoring the middle of the rack depending on the situation. If I were truly dead center (I can't remember last time this happened) I'd prolly try to roll into the middle of the pack for fear of leaving a bank or a cut into the far corner.
 
CreeDo said:
I might be a little confused on this. Are we stuck on the center of the foot rail (where you rack) or the head rail?

If I'm stuck at the top of the head rail, facing a full rack, the traditional safety is to kick 2 rails and send the cue ball behind the pack to pretty much the middle of the bottom row of balls.
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Creedo, I think he means your first example, where he is on the head rail and is facing the full rack. I totally agree with your suggestion - but I would just stress (it's not completely clear from your post) that you are not trying to drive a ball to a rail after contact to make a legal safety. You should be fouling on this shot - merely trying to open a few balls from the sides of the rack, to prevent your opponent from intentionally fouling right back by driving the cueball two rails to the original position.

Once again, sorry for clarifying your post Creedo. I'm sure it's what you meant but I've heard a lot of misinformation on this shot and just wanted players less familiar with this situation to be sure they know what to do.

There are four pages to the below diagram.

CueTable Help

 
No worries, I shoulda spelled it out =) I can just imagine someone reading that and drilling the kick trying to drive a ball to the rail. Occasionally I've gotten lucky and caught a rail without selling out but more often it means I hit way too hard and sold out.
 
teedotaj said:
Is it a foul to kick the CB? Or is it only a foul if nothing touches the rail after?
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From the top rail to the rack, the cue ball has to contact an object ball and then either the cue ball or any object ball has to contact a rail. If there is no rail hit after contact, yes, it's a foul.
 
Ed Wiggins said:
For a good example of the trouble you run into with this shot, watch at about 18:30 of this match:

http://www.malmobiljardklubb.se/video/jan-lundell-tom-storm


Ed
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I follow you on this example. He misses the rack entirely and then plays a successful safety. His opponent then plays an intentional foul off the foot rail to the back of the rack much like he might have done had the guy called a safety while pocketing the break ball and sent the CB up table. But by playing the shot rather than the safety he gave himself a chance to continue his run and having not been successful breaking the rack still ended up no worse off than if he played safe.

What am I missing?
 
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