i got a question for all you apa bashers

[justadub]

The low opinion people have of the APA probably stems from the rules which limit the number of good players and encourage sandbagging.

Which comes back around to the point that if the number of "good players" wasn't limited, the number of beginners would evaporate, as the bulk of them wouldn't want to stick around getting their brains beaten in. It is a league that is supposed to be accessible to beginners, first and foremost. There are FAR more unskilled players in this country than "good players", so the APA was rather shrewd in marketing it's league to them.

The sandbagging issue is everywhere, in every league, and is celebrated amongst the "real players" as part of the hustle. If people pay attention, keep score properly, and report problems, sandbagging is limited. APA doesn't encourage it. People who don't mind cheating will do that wherever and whenever possible, regardless of the venture.

 

[lorider]

Which comes back around to the point that if the number of "good players" wasn't limited, the number of beginners would evaporate, as the bulk of them wouldn't want to stick around getting their brains beaten in. It is a league that is supposed to be accessible to beginners, first and foremost. There are FAR more unskilled players in this country than "good players", so the APA was rather shrewd in marketing it's league to them.

The sandbagging issue is everywhere, in every league, and is celebrated amongst the "real players" as part of the hustle. If people pay attention, keep score properly, and report problems, sandbagging is limited. APA doesn't encourage it. People who don't mind cheating will do that wherever and whenever possible, regardless of the venture.

dub ....you are just making too much sense for this forum . these apa bashers just don't comprehend common sense man.

 

[trob]

It's still a handy cap league no matter how many good players are on your team. I try to tell my players and people that I play against after we play to not worry about me running out. I will play someone who I think will be a good challenge but they will miss balls and make mistakes I don't normally see them make because they get all caught up in what I'm doing. I always try to tell them don't focus on what I'm doing. I'm not perfect ... I'm going to miss or blow position or whatever..just take advantage of it and make your balls and you'll have a chance. I have to run out ... I gotta make 75 points lol

Which comes back around to the point that if the number of "good players" wasn't limited, the number of beginners would evaporate, as the bulk of them wouldn't want to stick around getting their brains beaten in. It is a league that is supposed to be accessible to beginners, first and foremost. There are FAR more unskilled players in this country than "good players", so the APA was rather shrewd in marketing it's league to them.

The sandbagging issue is everywhere, in every league, and is celebrated amongst the "real players" as part of the hustle. If people pay attention, keep score properly, and report problems, sandbagging is limited. APA doesn't encourage it. People who don't mind cheating will do that wherever and whenever possible, regardless of the venture.

 

[Masayoshi]

People bash the APA because it is the McDonalds of the billiards world. If you want a pool playing experience that doesn't have a lot of barriers to entry, is geared towards the masses, and is convenient, play in the APA. If you are looking to achieve excellence, take part in pool room culture, or make money, you best look elsewhere.

 

[Tronpocket]

Maybe at some point We should change this websites name to Apa-Z Billiards. :shrug:

Honestly, i feel that for the next 1000 years there cant possibly be anything about League Pool politics , handicaps , strategy , tragety...........Nothing, that hasnt been debated to the point of being redundant , regurgetated rhetoric .:speechless:
The opinions about the APA that exist today will tomorrow ,and in the searchbar.:wink:

 

[justadub]

Why is it that if we have a couple threads about APA, that all of a sudden we need a sub forum, or to change the name to APAzbilliards?

There are a couple dozen threads on the front page, with 1-2 about APA currently. For a few minutes yesterday there were maybe 4. Hell, that's only because lorider had a bug up his tookus and CJ had a quiet day so he didn't push everything to page 2.

There are a great many of us here on AZB that play APA, its part of our pool lives. Why shouldn't we talk about it here? In my opinion, the forum is a better and more diverse place if we talk about all aspects of pool, not just DCC, chalk, Lou/JB and whatever disaster Bonus Ball is up to at the time.

 

[Tronpocket]

Ill agree there are more people.....WAY more, on here that are in, or have been involved in (myself included....many times), the apa or other league organization then just recreational enthusiests , aspiring players, teachers and pros..
All the more argument for changing the name .

But "shirley"everyone would get more out of discussing " playing the game" and "strategy"as opposed to "playing the league politics" or " haters" threads.


I AM please to see more WWYD threads popping up on the main page now and then ....thats where the gold is IMHO.
Even if its 10 pages debating on weather to shoot a ball in the side or in the corner...or play safe.


I do apologize , I guess the egotistical purist in me just wants a pool forum that talks about pool....the game....the scene........not much else.:embarrassed2:
I may need to take some meds:dance:


btw, always loved your avatar Shir....i mean ....justadub.:wink:

 

[alstl]

Which comes back around to the point that if the number of "good players" wasn't limited, the number of beginners would evaporate, as the bulk of them wouldn't want to stick around getting their brains beaten in. It is a league that is supposed to be accessible to beginners, first and foremost. There are FAR more unskilled players in this country than "good players", so the APA was rather shrewd in marketing it's league to them.

The sandbagging issue is everywhere, in every league, and is celebrated amongst the "real players" as part of the hustle. If people pay attention, keep score properly, and report problems, sandbagging is limited. APA doesn't encourage it. People who don't mind cheating will do that wherever and whenever possible, regardless of the venture.

I don't disagree, just explaining why the APA has the reputation it has. I'll draw a comparison to a gym. I work out at a community center where they have weights. Anybody and everybody goes there because it is less expensive than a gym. A lot of serious weight lifters avoid he place because it has a reputation for having people with poor "gym etiquette".

A lot of the complaints about the APA stem from the fact there are a lot of beginners or others who just do it as a night of drinking and horsing around and don't know or care about the unwritten rules of pool etiquette. Combine that with the sandbagging and you get a lot of complaints.

I'm not condemning it, just explaining it. My career in the APA lasted three weeks and they raised my handicap so high my team couldn't use me any more. For those three weeks I had fun, no complaints other than thick cigarette smoke.

 

[peteypooldude]

1st let me say this.... there is no such thing as a perfect league.

with that said why do all you guys expect a higher level of perfection from apa than bcapl "or any other league "?

For me it's the constant nitpicking and crying. I don't however bash the APA because it's great for new players. For an old road dog like me it's not worth it. If I can't get paid when I win without going to Vegas then it doesn't appeal to me
With that being said... I wish the APA and their members who enjoy the atmosphere surrounding it the best.

 

[Cory in DC]

I thought the same thing when I first started but I learned It doesn't help your game at your level. You will find that you can play weak ass safes and it's good enough and miss balls and not get punished for it. playing better players that can punish you for your mistakes is what will drive you to get better. I truly believe that this league is for new to mid level players. Some of those people are competitive and will work to get better some will be happy being a bad player because they don't care. 8's and 9's just make it tougher to field a team.

No league is perfect .. no handicap league is going to stop every sandbagger. I just find it funny when our LO'S with a straight face swear to you that it's impossible. lol

It's probably good practice on your self-discipline to work on bearing down in these situations, no matter who you're playing. I know that most of my losses stem from a careless moment rather than an inherent lack of skill, and league is a cheap way to work on that.

This is one of the good things about the new 8-ball scoring system. Historically, against anything but a 4, I haven't consistently shot my best in the first few games of a match (giving a good 4 a 5-2 spot, I somehow find my focus earlier). With the new system, I really need to rack up a lot of shut outs to get the 3-0 wins, so I'm much more focused coming out of the gate.

Cory

 

[Banks]

It's probably good practice on your self-discipline to work on bearing down in these situations, no matter who you're playing. I know that most of my losses stem from a careless moment rather than an inherent lack of skill, and league is a cheap way to work on that.

This is one of the good things about the new 8-ball scoring system. Historically, against anything but a 4, I haven't consistently shot my best in the first few games of a match (giving a good 4 a 5-2 spot, I somehow find my focus earlier). With the new system, I really need to rack up a lot of shut outs to get the 3-0 wins, so I'm much more focused coming out of the gate.

Cory

I know what you mean. I played a 5 on Tuesday night and lost the first game because I wasn't really bearing down on my shots. After that, I had to concentrate to at least keep her off the hill! If I'm paying $7/match, you'd better believe I'm going to try to win. Forcing yourself to concentrate in all situations is akin to playing 14.1, where slipping up either gets punished or shows you that you're not as good as you thought.

Using league performance to measure progress is great, imho. First, with skill levels. Secondly, with wins. Lastly, with how you win. I'm still having some problems with my 9b game, but it's moving along.

 

[Rjmoncrief]

There are 2 different types of APA players. The first one is the player that just wants to go spend time with their friends, have a beer and enjoy the night.
The second, in which I would venture to say is at least 50% of all APA PARTICIPANTS, is the player that has to play with the team in order to get enough plays in to participate in the Top Guns which advances them to the regionals and then the National Singles Tourney in Vegas.
A lot of players, especially those at the highest skill levels such as myself, could care less about the team or league play. We play on league night just to get the required amount of plays to go win the Top Guns and so on.
If there were no chance to advance in Singles action then there would be no APA for me and many others.
I've heard so many times by lots of players that it ain't worth the hassle of all the league play BS just to try and get to Vegas. If your game isn't good enough to do anything in Vegas then I would agree. BUT, if your game is real strong then I disagree. A player in my area won the 9 ball division at the highest level last year and picked up $10k. I'd say that was worth the trip.
Just my 2 cents.......

 

[Banks]

There are 2 different types of APA players. The first one is the player that just wants to go spend time with their friends, have a beer and enjoy the night.
The second, in which I would venture to say is at least 50% of all APA PARTICIPANTS, is the player that has to play with the team in order to get enough plays in to participate in the Top Guns which advances them to the regionals and then the National Singles Tourney in Vegas.
A lot of players, especially those at the highest skill levels such as myself, could care less about the team or league play. We play on league night just to get the required amount of plays to go win the Top Guns and so on.
If there were no chance to advance in Singles action then there would be no APA for me and many others.
I've heard so many times by lots of players that it ain't worth the hassle of all the league play BS just to try and get to Vegas. If your game isn't good enough to do anything in Vegas then I would agree. BUT, if your game is real strong then I disagree. A player in my area won the 9 ball division at the highest level last year and picked up $10k. I'd say that was worth the trip.
Just my 2 cents.......

I do both. I'm hooked on singles, but I also like having a night out with friends and seeing all of the people that I've met over the past 9 years. We don't have a Top Gun tournament in our area, so I have to do qualifiers to go to Vegas. I've made it 3 times and got $4k last year. I play on an 8/9 team, an 8 and a masters team. I may not be the strongest player, but I'm a scrapper and I'll make people work for a win. Every time it seems like the plan is to get my minimum in and then I end up playing most of the matches anyways, not to mention letting people sucker me into joining yet another team.

 

[lorider]

Why is it that if we have a couple threads about APA, that all of a sudden we need a sub forum, or to change the name to APAzbilliards?

There are a couple dozen threads on the front page, with 1-2 about APA currently. For a few minutes yesterday there were maybe 4. Hell, that's only because lorider had a bug up his tookus and CJ had a quiet day so he didn't push everything to page 2.

There are a great many of us here on AZB that play APA, its part of our pool lives. Why shouldn't we talk about it here? In my opinion, the forum is a better and more diverse place if we talk about all aspects of pool, not just DCC, chalk, Lou/JB and whatever disaster Bonus Ball is up to at the time.

a bug up my tookus ? well i would have to say that's a pretty fair description of my attitude yesterday .:wink:

i think most of you guys have the wrong assumption of why i started those 2 threads yesterday and the ones who do know are avoiding the issue.

contrary to what you may believe i have no problem you guys saying you don't like apa.

i have no problem you jumping in an apa thread whining about being beat by a guy 2 levels lower than yourself. heck i have posted the same thing myself a time or 2.

i have no problem you jumping in an apa thread and *****ing about an apa lo. heck i have done the same myself.

i have no problem you *****ing about staying under the 23 rule. done that on here also.

i have no problem you saying you quit apa. i come on here saying i was gonna do the same . dub talked me out of it. thanks dub. :thumbup:

i have come to realize the apa has faults but my good experiences far out weight my bad ones.

here is my problem.

when a thread is started about a problem with apa ...all you guys jump in giving your .02 . i really got no problem with that at all.

but when a thread is started about a bcapl problem i give my .02 and wonder where the hell all you guys are at.?

a thread about an apa captain cheating goes ballistic with you guys giving your opinion, a thread about a bcapl lo dies a sudden death. what i wanna know is why are all you guys so quiet on that subject?

i was right in that apa thread with you guys bashing that apa captain. where the hell were you guys when a bcapl lo does the same thing ? ya'll don't have an opinion on that bcapl lo cheating ? is it ok he did it ? not ok with you ? i honestly don;t know because it seems like ya'll too scared to call a spade a spade in your own league.

and no i am not against bcapl. i would play it if it was available in my area. heck i have even thought about becoming a bcapl lo and starting a league here but have not yet for a couple of reasons.

 

[jburkm002]

Everyone has their reasons for not liking one league or another. Until someone can create a league that has built in checks and balances. There will never be a perfect league format that cannot be manipulated. How do you create a league where the lowest ranked player has even odds of beating a high ranked player. How to create a league where every ranking is equal from division to division and state to state. The larger the league the harder it is to keep up with each player. No one person can watch every player shoot multiple times to verify their skill level. Team captains don't do their jobs. People will always try to cheat no matter what. Create a league with non of these issue and you would be rich. I don't think it can be done.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[lorider]

Everyone has their reasons for not liking one league or another. Until someone can create a league that has built in checks and balances. There will never be a perfect league format that cannot be manipulated. How do you create a league where the lowest ranked player has even odds of beating a high ranked player. How to create a league where every ranking is equal from division to division and state to state. The larger the league the harder it is to keep up with each player. No one person can watch every player shoot multiple times to verify their skill level. Team captains don't do their jobs. People will always try to cheat no matter what. Create a league with non of these issue and you would be rich. I don't think it can be done.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

you are 100 % correct. that is basically what i have been saying all along is that no league is perfect.i don't mind someone posting i don;t like x league and give whatever reason why or saying i prefer x league and giving whatever reason why.

i will state right now my favorite league is napa because it combines the best of what i like about apa and bcapl. i think that statement right there would suprise a lot of people on here considering my staunch support of apa in face of all the apa haters on here.

in closing i just want to comment on the fact that there have been 150 views to this thread since i made my last post. no comment from the apa haters ?

its ok. i understand .... kinda hard to dispute the facts concerning all the hypocrisy you display in your apa bashing.

 

[itsfroze]

I don't think that the lack of any more posts had anything to do with your last post.
But if it makes you feel better please believe that.

I can only speak for myself I was speaking with you
seriously at first then just got tired of hearing you whine.

Over what, more people bash the APA than the BCAPL
frankly I doubt anyone cares. (Except You of Coarse)

Anyway hope you got it out of your system. k:

 

[lorider]

I don't think that the lack of any more posts had anything to do with your last post.
But if it makes you feel better please believe that.

I can only speak for myself I was speaking with you
seriously at first then just got tired of hearing you whine.

Over what, more people bash the APA than the BCAPL
frankly I doubt anyone cares. (Except You of Coarse)

Anyway hope you got it out of your system. k:

i get that the bcapl is a more popular league by the majority of posters on this board. i like a lot of things about bcapl myself.

being that bcapl is a more popular league whenever a controversial issue is brought up on this forum it is largley ignored. yet if the same issue arises concerning apa it causes a firestorm.

the same issue arises on here concerning anything popular " in the majoritys mind" .

lets use cuemakers for example.

lets use zinzola for example. i am sure you are aware of tillklers "and others" lawsuit against zinzola.

several years ago a poster come on here about his negative experience with zinzola. people came outa the word work bashing that poster.

a year or 2 later another poster conveyed the same experience and he too was bashed .
no one wanted to listen because zinzola was popular. it came to light later that a few more had the same experience but never said nothing because they did not want to get bashed on here also.

well along comes tikkler with his experience with zinzola. now every one listened to tikkler and jumps on the zinzola bashing bandwagon.

what is the connection you ask ?

well like the guys who had an issue with zinzola were reluctant to say any thing because he was popular people are reluctant say any thing about an issue with bcapl because it is popular with this forum.

yea i got it outa my system no more rant from me on this subject . case closed until the next apa bashing thread.:wink:

 

[justadub]

promises, promises....

:embarrassed2::grin:

 

[Black-Balled]

My only beefs are that I do not like bein told when I have to go to the poolroom, I also hate goin to the poolroom and not playing pool